The Ledge

Go Back   The Ledge > Main Forums > Rumours
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Make the Ads Go Away! Click here.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76  
Old 12-09-2018, 04:32 PM
louielouie2000's Avatar
louielouie2000 louielouie2000 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
Supporting Ledgie
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 6,421
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elle View Post
as well between stevie and campbell from what we hear.

#ButBandIsHappyHappyHappy
What’s this all about? I thought Stevie and Mike have been besties for several decades. Stevie is the one who fired Lindsey and planted Mike in his place, too. How could they have anything to disagree about?
__________________
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a382/louielouie2000/The_Plant_-_Sausalito_-_front_door_2.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 12-09-2018, 04:34 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 16,377
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by louielouie2000 View Post
What’s this all about? I thought Stevie and Mike have been besties for several decades. Stevie is the one who fired Lindsey and planted Mike in his place, too. How could they have anything to disagree about?
Because she is a feckless person.
__________________
I would tell Christine Perfect, "You're Christine f***ing McVie, and don't you forget it!"
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 12-09-2018, 05:25 PM
mylittledemon's Avatar
mylittledemon mylittledemon is offline
Moderator
Supporting Ledgie
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8,492
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sue View Post
“This is going to cause more confusion than a mouse in a burlesque show”
Foghorn Leghorn


I have little clue as to what's going on. It feels like Lindsey is done for good. The hopeful part of me wonders if this whole "fight" was fabricated to build up publicity for the final tour; the end result being they'll get back together in a year or two's time just as he said in the interview. However that idea makes less sense to me considering the band (at their ages) simply doesn't have time to play around like that.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 12-09-2018, 05:33 PM
sue sue is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: berkshire
Posts: 1,349
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mylittledemon View Post


I have little clue as to what's going on. It feels like Lindsey is done for good. The hopeful part of me wonders if this whole "fight" was fabricated to build up publicity for the final tour; the end result being they'll get back together in a year or two's time just as he said in the interview. However that idea makes less sense to me considering the band (at their ages) simply doesn't have time to play around like that.

Crikey that went through my mind, more than once....but I dismissed it as too too devious even for them.
But makes you think !!!
Huge Final tour with Lindsey back in the fold, much stupid kissy, kissy making up
just like at the Dance reunion...
But you re right in one sense, time ain’t in their side.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 12-09-2018, 05:41 PM
mylittledemon's Avatar
mylittledemon mylittledemon is offline
Moderator
Supporting Ledgie
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8,492
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sue View Post
Crikey that went through my mind, more than once....but I dismissed it as too too devious even for them.
But makes you think !!!
Yeah, and it would mean Neil and Mike are in on it too. And if they aren't, to do that to them would be pretty cruel. It's hard to say.

I'm just thankful we still have The Dance. It began there for me, and now it looks as if it ends there too.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 12-09-2018, 05:44 PM
John Run John Run is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 415
Default

As I watched the interview and then watched it again, then thought back on the timeline, I came to some conclusions, many of which are contrary to my initial read when the suit was filed.

1) I am surprised that Fleetwood Mac's attorneys did not depose and then file for summary judgment to try to lessen some of Lindsey's claims. They were represented by smart, capable counsel. This tells me there was enough written documentation between the parties that left Fleetwood Mac and its members with substantial potential to be damaged under California's oral or common law contract statues. They didnt even try to damage Lindsey through the press to make him more malleable to a favorable settlement.

2) This settlement screams Azoff. Azoff was potentially very exposed here. He simultaneously represented the band and Lindsey. Lindsey had Azoff dead to rights for damage if he allowed him to lose potential earnings in order to earn more money himself. It is also a bad way to do business and lose respect of a broader client base. Azoff did not want his name and business damaged by a protracted suit that could have exposed he knowingly damaged a client.

3) Fleetwood Mac is earning less than expectation in 2018. For example in 2009 Fleetwood Mac sold out the Bok Center in Tulsa. 13,000 people and $1.28 million people on the 15th show of the tour. In 2018 tour opened at the Bok to a sold out crowd of 11,700 for 1.45 million. Remember with the time value of money 1.28 million in 2009 is 1.55 million in 2018 and 1300 less seats available is a 10% drop in tickets sold. Everyone got paid, made good money, but not as much money as they could. A failure of a manager to maximize earnings. So all of his clients lost on this change in membership.

4) To settle the suit this fast the offer had to be favorable to Lindsey. If he was seeking $12-14 million in lost wages for this tour plus damages to and for loss of future earnings, my guess is he dropped the future earnings claim and took 75-80% of the lost wages for the tour. $10 million range plus fees. This money would simply come from lowering the band guaranteed payout from the tour. But there is a good chance Lindsey made equal money from the tour compared to other members. If they each were to earn $12.5 million and gave back $2.5 million, they all end up at about $10 million. Also no way on earth that Finn and Campbell were getting equal shares. About half that each at best or another $10 million. See how all the numbers tie? This is all just experienced hypothesis, but one I think has reasonable foundation.

5) If I was his attorney I would have advised some of his CBS answers to be shaped different. Less specific the better so as to avoid any disparagement claim that I am sure is in the settlement. But those are near impossible to win, just more of a pain. FM has shown no desire to litigate, so the risk is limited.

6) If they asked Lindsey today to come play tomorrow; He would be there. I kind of think this is what Azoff is setting up....

Last edited by John Run; 12-09-2018 at 07:37 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 12-09-2018, 06:41 PM
SteveMacD's Avatar
SteveMacD SteveMacD is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 8,719
Default

I’ve been speculating that Lindsey’s comments about the Classic shows and subsequent performances were a large part of why he got sacked. I like the theory cbBen suggested, that the decision was made prior the already booked MusiCares, but had to wait until afterwards for contractual reasons.

My new theory is a combination of the two, that Mick, Stevie, and Azoff decided Lindsey was gone immediately after Classic East, but they had to wait until after MusiCares. My speculation is that it was a mixture of his comments about the Classic concerts and subsequent performances, disagreements over setlists, his continued lobbying for a new album, his insistence of dictating the creative direction of the band (just compare the pre-show music on this tour to the last few), perhaps there was a weariness over his avant-garde tendencies, his refusal to sign on the dotted line, and his request to delay the tour. Sure, he eventually walked away from that request, but it was too late by that point. Perhaps Stevie wasn’t lying when she said that they decided to move on after Lindsey asked for that delay.

Rereading some of Mick’s comments to Rolling Stone from last August, it seems clear that something was going on over the summer, especially when he was talking about current band drama and doing more obscure songs.

This also would mean that Tom’s death had no bearing on Lindsey’s firing. Sure, it meant Mike was available by the time they actually fired Lindsey, but there were other big name guitarists available if he wasn’t. Anyway, Mike may have been in a position to do both Fleetwood Mac and TPATH even if Tom hadn’t died. Tom had already said that the 2017 tour was likely going to be their last one. “I’m thinking it may be the last trip around the country. It’s very likely we’ll keep playing, but will we take on 50 shows in one tour? I don’t think so.” Mike could have very easily done both.

And the notion that Stevie wanted Lindsey gone to bring in Mike to somehow capitalize on Tom’s death seems laughable. Wouldn’t it have made more sense to delay the Mac tour and do a solo/tribute tour with the surviving Hearbreakers as her backing band, which would have also allowed Lindsey to do his project, negating that being a reason to part company?

Or, it could just be a setup for another reunion tour. Let’s face it, without new music, there was no compelling reason for the Rumours band to tour so relatively soon after the last tour. A lineup change makes this tour a bit more compelling, and makes a farewell/reunion cash grab tour with Lindsey, still without new music, more compelling.

Rolling Stone, March 15, 2017
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...future-116754/

Quote:
What have 42 years as a member of Fleetwood Mac taught you about compromise?

A lot, because when you’re in a band you have to be part of the team. There’s something comforting about that. But in my solo career, I get to be the boss.

L.A. Times, June 20, 2017
https://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...620-story.html

Quote:
Asked how he felt about playing a show explicitly geared to evoke memories of the old days, Buckingham cringed.

"It doesn't necessarily speak of the aspiration to present anything in the way that Fleetwood Mac would want to present it on its own terms," he said. "But we're all very close to Irving, so it was just sort of a 'Why not?'"

Pretty diplomatic for a rock star.

"I was going to put it less diplomatically, but I stopped myself," he said.

"Do the undiplomatic version," McVie chimed in. "What were you going to say?"

"I was going to say, 'Just close your eyes and take the money,'" Buckingham answered, and the soundstage rippled with laughter again.

GYOW, Classic East, July 30, 2017 (I get he was frustrated with the monitors, but he was clearly not responding to Stevie during the song)

https://youtu.be/apUrVWTdywQ

Compare it to MusiCare back in January.

https://youtu.be/Y1dw381fvlY

Rolling Stone, August 10, 2017
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...y-days-253244/

Quote:
“But if you look at what happened later [with Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham], which is not part of this book, that’s pretty bizarre too, you know? The latter-day stories of Fleetwood Mac, that in truth continue to this day, you look at that and you think, “How the hell can any of this survive?” So I don’t know how to address that other than that it’s heartbreaking and you have to get over it. You have to let go of it. And so this book is about paying kudos to who these people are and not getting into the drama of what we’re talking about now.”

Rolling Stone, August 28, 2017
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...future-110414/

Quote:
Are you thinking at all about the set list yet? Will it be very different than the last tour?


Yeah. I was in Italy recently and met Stevie out there. *Actually, she was in Capri and I was close to there. She said to me, “Let’s sit down and really listen to some stuff that sort of almost got forgotten.” So I know she’s already thinking she wants to do some things we haven’t done in years. I always think that Stevie and Lindsey should do a Buckingham Nicks song in the set. And have Christine should do a blues song. I hope it certainly won’t be the same show as we did before. *We always played nearly three hours, and we cut it back a little bit for the wear and tear, but we do over two hours. And when you got three singers, which is, like, three bands, really, to get that perfect set, it’s a trip.
__________________
On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony.



THE Stephen Hopkins
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 12-09-2018, 07:10 PM
John Run John Run is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 415
Default

While I do believe that Stevie wanted Lindsey gone well before Musiccares and the death of TP impacted her decision, I am quite sure Azoff and Mick didn't want Lindsey gone until it was clear it was the only way to keep Stevie. Fleetwood Mac is a large theater act without Stevie, not an arena act. Even so, Azoff knew that any change to the Rumours 5 would damage the brand and reduce some of the drawing power. He would be negligent if he advised anything else and if he did he certainly did not serve the best interest of his clients. Remember Lindsey was his client individually and he has a fiduciary and legal responsibility to him. Lindsey and Stevie were both individually represented by Azoff. Mick, John, and Christine were not. Oh the tangle web we weave...

I am 101% sure that the Classic East / West comments had 0.0 to do with his ouster.

I am also now equally sure that these 2018-2019 dates will be the only performances for this version of the band. Sorry, Steve...I know you prefer it to the Rumours 5 line up.

Last edited by John Run; 12-09-2018 at 07:19 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 12-09-2018, 07:24 PM
SteveMacD's Avatar
SteveMacD SteveMacD is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 8,719
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Run View Post
Sorry, Steve...I know you prefer it to the Rumours 5 line up.
Sure John.
__________________
On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony.



THE Stephen Hopkins
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 12-09-2018, 07:39 PM
DownOnRodeo's Avatar
DownOnRodeo DownOnRodeo is offline
Addicted Ledgie
Supporting Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 3,780
Default

Regardless of the conclusions you reach, thank you for putting together a thread with so many quotes and links, Steve.

I had forgotten that Lindsey's "close your eyes and take the money" remark had been prompted not by the interviewer--but by Christine!

And this quote of hers has always sat strangely with me:
Quote:
"We were the only people in the band that actually played more than just a single note," the keyboardist said with a dry chuckle. "He and I play chords (...)."
Although she may equally be talking about John as bass player, the dry chuckle suggests that she's making a dig at Stevie (and it suggests to the world that they had been doing a whole lot of that while recording BuckMcVie).

The woman (er, sorry--person?) is a downright troublemaker!
Take that, jbrownsjr, with your calls to spare the 'fragile old lady' (paraphrasing).
__________________
Joe
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 12-09-2018, 07:53 PM
DownOnRodeo's Avatar
DownOnRodeo DownOnRodeo is offline
Addicted Ledgie
Supporting Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 3,780
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Run View Post
common law contract statues.
Common law statutes?
What is going on over there in your legal system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Run View Post
I kind of think this is what Azoff is setting up....
Who else is tired of this Azoff guy being insidiously ever-present?
He must be older than all of the FM members combined. Is he Emperor Palpatine?
And the idea that he's keen to make an extra million here or there--how much money do you need at a certain age?
To hear that this power-hungry mogul was screaming down the phone at Lindsey, who was his CLIENT (and the ARTIST). And that that phone call was essentially Lindsey's first and last notice about his expulsion. Just sickening!

I also note that, as of the time of that interview (which I can't watch since I'm not in the region), Christine was the only one to send Lindsey a substantive email. What about you, Mick? Got nothing to say to your 'great friend' who you had kicked out of the band and then went around lying about, just to keep your circus on the road and get your new shed built?

Where Lindsey gets all his perspective and graciousness about these guys and gals is beyond me.
__________________
Joe
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 12-09-2018, 08:11 PM
FM77 FM77 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 586
Default

You should read more about a Irv Azoff. Even the Eagles said he was the devil, but he was their little devil. The guy is shrewd and ruthless. That is how he came to own the music business boys and girls.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 12-10-2018, 10:08 AM
aleuzzi's Avatar
aleuzzi aleuzzi is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 5,983
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownOnRodeo View Post
Regardless of the conclusions you reach, thank you for putting together a thread with so many quotes and links, Steve.

I had forgotten that Lindsey's "close your eyes and take the money" remark had been prompted not by the interviewer--but by Christine!

And this quote of hers has always sat strangely with me:


Although she may equally be talking about John as bass player, the dry chuckle suggests that she's making a dig at Stevie (and it suggests to the world that they had been doing a whole lot of that while recording BuckMcVie).

The woman (er, sorry--person?) is a downright troublemaker!
Take that, jbrownsjr, with your calls to spare the 'fragile old lady' (paraphrasing).
I seriously doubt she's a troublemaker. She appears to be trying to keep the peace and build a bridge. And like most people placed in that position, she's not doing a great job of accomplishing it.

Remember that when she was working with LB Stevie would call her and ask if LB was "being a good boy." Rather than Christine being the trouble maker, it's far, far more likely she--as the other songwriter and front person--is placed in a VERY awkward place, negotiating the LB/SN quarrel which, according Mick paraphrasing Christine, should have been resolved years ago.

If you're ever in a family or close-friend situation where two people are constantly at each other's throats, it places all the others involved in delicate situations. The situation is even more complex if you love each of those warring factions equally--yet differently. Christine has significant bonds with both LB and SN and shouldn't have to take sides in their ongoing inability to reconcile. Do I largely blame Stevie? Yes, but Lindsey is not innocent in all this.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 12-10-2018, 10:30 AM
DownOnRodeo's Avatar
DownOnRodeo DownOnRodeo is offline
Addicted Ledgie
Supporting Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 3,780
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aleuzzi View Post
I seriously doubt she's a troublemaker. She appears to be trying to keep the peace and build a bridge.
Sorry, I said that with tongue in cheek.
I don't imagine for a moment that she's ever 'intending' to cause trouble, of all things trouble between those two. (As you point out, it would have made decades of her life more tolerable were Stevie and Lindsey either getting along better or not working together at all.)

On the other hand, her demeanor and comments in interviews and on stage have always come across to me as "British Aunt Christine lounging in the kitchen with a cup of tea and a biscuit, smirking while she quietly dishes out a some scathing aspersions about the loony neighbors with a guilty chuckle." And as a result, even when she talks "in the eyes of the world" she seems to me to be in her own little world, which for example resulted in egging Lindsey on to make this (supposedly) troublesome comment.
__________________
Joe
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 12-10-2018, 10:38 AM
aleuzzi's Avatar
aleuzzi aleuzzi is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 5,983
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownOnRodeo View Post
On the other hand, her demeanor and comments in interviews and on stage have always come across to me as "British Aunt Christine lounging in the kitchen with a cup of tea and a biscuit, smirking while she quietly dishes out a some scathing aspersions about the loony neighbors with a guilty chuckle." And as a result, even when she talks "in the eyes of the world" she seems to me to be in her own little world, which for example resulted in egging Lindsey on to make this (supposedly) troublesome comment.
Oh--yeah, she IS sarcasm central. This we know. She also plays passive aggressive. But at the end of the day, she seems infinitely more tolerable than either of the Americans.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Fleetwood Mac RUMOURS (Stevie Nicks) Platinum Award + Photo of Group picture

Fleetwood Mac RUMOURS (Stevie Nicks) Platinum Award + Photo of Group

$169.00



Fleetwood Mac Sisters Of The Moon T shirt Small Rock N Roll Witchy Black picture

Fleetwood Mac Sisters Of The Moon T shirt Small Rock N Roll Witchy Black

$24.99



Fleetwood Mac Poster Rogers Arena Vancouver 2018 Hand-Signed Giclee Bob Masse picture

Fleetwood Mac Poster Rogers Arena Vancouver 2018 Hand-Signed Giclee Bob Masse

$39.99



Vintage Fleetwood Mac Artist Signed Poster Framed picture

Vintage Fleetwood Mac Artist Signed Poster Framed

$49.99



The Dance by Fleetwood Mac (CD, 1997) picture

The Dance by Fleetwood Mac (CD, 1997)

$1.25




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
© 1995-2003 Martin and Lisa Adelson, All Rights Reserved