Out of the Cradle 30th Anniversay

[cbBen]

According to his interview on Regis & Kathy Lee, mostly working on OOTC. He described himself as a studio rat. Of course he also had to write the thing first.

[aleuzzi]

My encounter with OOTC was entirely unexpected. I’d pretty much given up on FM by then. BEHIND THE MASK embarrassed me and TANGO struck me as a very calculated record—successful, yes, but largely planned as a successful record, which is different than making a great record that happens to be successful.

Before I knew of OOTC’s existence, I saw the Wrong video and thought “Who cares about Lindsey Buckingham right now?” The song underwhelmed me. But when I happened on the cd in a used bin a year or two later, I listened to it then and there before taking it home. I was astonished. Every song was so fresh and crisp. I even liked Wrong in the context of the other songs. To this day, OOTC remains my favorite solo album by any FM member. For what it’s worth, my second favorite is LAW AND ORDER, so there’s that.

Right around the time of OOTC’s release came Love Shines and Heart of Stone, both of which are as good as the best work on OOTC and easily better than anything on BEHIND and TANGO (or even MIRAGE). Again, I wasn’t expecting that kind of quality from FM at that point. Imagine what Christine and Lindsey might have done together! Paper Doll, on the other hand, is as bad as the worst Stevie material on the previous two albums…

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

Imagine what Christine and Lindsey might have done together!

Imagine if Mick had waited six months before rebuilding Fleetwood Mac. Lindsey would have rejoined. By then, he knew he was going nowhere as a solo act.

Maybe Bekka, Billy, and Dave would have been spared. Not saying anything bad about them, but I think a Fleetwood Mac as an opening/theater act fronted solely by Lindsey would have gone over better, although it could have bitten them in the ass with having the big reunion album/tour.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Villavic

Does anyone know what he was doing between 1987 and 1992?

Not so much, but for what I know, he finally worked with Brian Wilson, even when we don't know their work, and gave Make Me A Mask to Fleetwood for the 25 Years: The Chain compilation. I'm not sure, but I guess that song was recorded after the TITN days, so it's not a material from that period.
He appeared to perform Landslide live with Stevie Nicks in 1990, and gave his guitar talent to Chris' song Behind The Mask.
Also in 1990 he lost his brother Greg, olympic medalist, because of a heart attack, like his father. This part, plus the death of one of the Kingston Trio members, made him a more reflexive man, so it's a side of his inspiration for some of the OOTC lyrics, as he talks more about his younger days, on the album and on different interviews he did on the OOTC days.
I need to refresh some information maybe!! But these are things you probably know!

[David]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

While I love Don't Look Down, it's just NOT single material.

The interstitial talking bit reminds me of a Laurie Anderson sort of performance art piece.

I liked the imagery of the title Out of the Cradle because it speaks simultaneously to maturity as in just aging but also to the idea of getting out of FM and that whole 'rock star' thing which can be infantilizing.

These bits reminded me of a theory I’ve had for a long time, which is counterintuitive. I think it’s Lindsey’s Fleetwood Mac fame that kept him from having a solid, self-sustaining solo artist career. I think if he had not been in Fleetwood Mac (or been in for only a few years), he may have created an indie career with enough buoyancy to last for decades, like Stereolab or Thomas Dolby or Elliott Smith. But he was always worrying about success at the Fleetwood level, and that sunk him over and over again. Somehow, too, many listeners who might have been in his camp in the 80s and 90s just kept comparing him with Fleetwood — “He should have been more this or more that.” But every single solo record he puts out is contraindicated by the gargantua Fleetwood Mac. He is always an extension of them (as are Stevie, Christine, Mick, and John). He cannot cut that tie; all his solo work is an analogy (this is like that or unlike that).

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by David

These bits reminded me of a theory I’ve had for a long time, which is counterintuitive. I think it’s Lindsey’s Fleetwood Mac fame that kept him from having a solid, self-sustaining solo artist career. I think if he had not been in Fleetwood Mac (or been in for only a few years), he may have created an indie career with enough buoyancy to last for decades, like Stereolab or Thomas Dolby or Elliott Smith. But he was always worrying about success at the Fleetwood level, and that sunk him over and over again. Somehow, too, many listeners who might have been in his camp in the 80s and 90s just kept comparing him with Fleetwood — “He should have been more this or more that.” But every single solo record he puts out is contraindicated by the gargantua Fleetwood Mac. He is always an extension of them (as are Stevie, Christine, Mick, and John). He cannot cut that tie; all his solo work is an analogy (this is like that or unlike that).

Part of the reason Stevie was able to have the self-sustaining solo career was doing all of the duets with the likes of Kenny Loggins, Tom Petty, and Don Henley, which allowed her to be seen as something outside of the context of Fleetwood Mac. The music she made as a solo artists sounded different from Fleetwood Mac. She also toured and kept her name out there.

While Christine wasn't especially interested in being a solo artist, she was still able to deliver something a little different from her Fleetwood Mac work by working with other musicians.

Lindsey had done so much on his own within the context of Fleetwood Mac that it was much harder to delineate his Fleetwood Mac work from his solo work. There were truly no compelling reasons to consider his solo work on its own merits. It didn't shed any new light on Lindsey, it only spoke more to his own eccentricities. That he only made three studio albums (two solo, one Fleetwood Mac) and played about 80 tour dates in 21 years (OOTC tour and The Dance) further compounded the problem.

[jmn3]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Part of the reason Stevie was able to have the self-sustaining solo career was doing all of the duets with the likes of Kenny Loggins, Tom Petty, and Don Henley, which allowed her to be seen as something outside of the context of Fleetwood Mac. The music she made as a solo artists sounded different from Fleetwood Mac. She also toured and kept her name out there.

While Christine wasn't especially interested in being a solo artist, she was still able to deliver something a little different from her Fleetwood Mac work by working with other musicians.

Lindsey had done so much on his own within the context of Fleetwood Mac that it was much harder to delineate his Fleetwood Mac work from his solo work. There were truly no compelling reasons to consider his solo work on its own merits. It didn't shed any new light on Lindsey, it only spoke more to his own eccentricities. That he only made three studio albums (two solo, one Fleetwood Mac) and played about 80 tour dates in 21 years (OOTC tour and The Dance) further compounded the problem.

I think you have it nailed here Steve. Lindsey from a solo perspective is such an odd thing. He clearly resented a lot of Stevie's solo success, especially early on. But, in what way was he ever out there building his own name/brand as a solo act? She had her name out there everywhere starting in the late 70's so she wasn't JUST the Fleetwood Mac girl. Not touring until 1992, when he was already into his 40's and relatively unknown outside of the band, coupled with his general weirdness from a musical perspective, really hurt him from that standpoint. I mean, fine if he didn't want the solo success, but I think for many years, he kind of seemed to think it would happen. Had Lindsey mounted a big tour in 1984 and never pivoted his solo album into Tango and toured in the 1987-88 timeframe with music that was geared a bit more commercial, things may have been very different for him.

Although, I think a Dance-like reunion was inevitable no matter what happened. OOTC could have been a #1 and once Eagles did Hell Freezes Over and boomers started having money to spend, a reunited Rumours-era Fleetwood Mac was bound to occur.

[cbBen]

Lindsey addresses the above in this article. Among other things, he says it's much easier to get his work out via Fleetwood Mac than under his own name. Upon the release of Say You Will:

"I spent about seven years trying to get my material that's on this album placed and heard." "I felt an extreme need to have it have a home and get it out so someone could hear it." "I would be completely happy to continue with this [Fleetwood Mac], never to pursue anything solo again. Because it's a hell of a lot easier": https://www.fleetwoodmac-uk.com/articles/FMart115.html

[anusha]

Sigh, OOTC is still my favorite LB album and my favorite FM solo album with Bella Donna coming in second. I think it still hangs together well as a collection of songs but I don’t know if any of them really could have been serious hit singles. Somehow his solo work never quite hits the sweet spot of mass appeal the way his FM work has. He is someone who is really best suited to a band context and to producing other artists but somehow he has not come out with the songs to make a big hit. He’s come to realize that and seems to accept his solo career. I’m just glad he keeps at it — I really do love a lot of it even if it’s never going to be massively popular.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by anusha

Sigh, OOTC is still my favorite LB album and my favorite FM solo album with Bella Donna coming in second. I think it still hangs together well as a collection of songs but I don’t know if any of them really could have been serious hit singles. Somehow his solo work never quite hits the sweet spot of mass appeal the way his FM work has. He is someone who is really best suited to a band context and to producing other artists but somehow he has not come out with the songs to make a big hit. He’s come to realize that and seems to accept his solo career. I’m just glad he keeps at it — I really do love a lot of it even if it’s never going to be massively popular.

But it makes me kind of feel sorry for him. He deserved that mass appeal, but never really tried to court it. So I guess it's his own fault. Weird is never going to appeal to the masses, I guess.

[Macfan4life]

This 1984 interview describes why he goes "left of center" in making music especially in solo music. Its fun to look back at this because he wanted to follow up Go Insane with another solo album and warned Fleetwood Mac not to make another album for the "wrong" reasons. In some ways, was Tango made for the wrong reasons? To get Mick out of bankruptcy especially since he put his solo album on hold and morphed it into the Tango project. So I guess he got satisfaction he had his solo songs on the album. I remember in 1987 he also said Tusk elements were similar for Tango since he was doing so much of it on his own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj7tfeFA5Cc

On another note, I saw this interesting interview pop up where Mick and Lindsey discuss the disco phenomenon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMjl4Qs4qP0

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

On another note, I saw this interesting interview pop up where Mick and Lindsey discuss the disco phenomenon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMjl4Qs4qP0

Ironic coming from Mick. I guess he forgot about "Keep On Going" from Mystery to Me and completely ignored what Bob Welch was doing with French Kiss.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by cbBen

Lindsey addresses the above in this article. Among other things, he says it's much easier to get his work out via Fleetwood Mac than under his own name. Upon the release of Say You Will:

"I spent about seven years trying to get my material that's on this album placed and heard." "I felt an extreme need to have it have a home and get it out so someone could hear it." "I would be completely happy to continue with this [Fleetwood Mac], never to pursue anything solo again. Because it's a hell of a lot easier": https://www.fleetwoodmac-uk.com/articles/FMart115.html

Well that sure seems a pivot of 180 degrees when you think of his statements that FM is so much politics and having to tiptoe around some people's sensitivities (clearly Stevie) and how it's like making a movie whereas solo work is more like painting and it's just you and no politics etc??

I TOTALLY get the point out him having to struggle to get the material out... record companies and managers seem to have been less interested in helping him get solo deals... I mean even Rob Cavallo says that he pushed Lindsey to do a "big FM multi camera show" to "really get his name out" rather than a solo album....

So I have to assume when he refers to FM as being "a hell of a lot easier" he means specifically getting a lot of people to hear his music.. NOT the process of getting music recorded