Storms - Dennis Wilson

[Gailh]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

When I was young I was so used to reading about what a grand producer Lindsey was that I honestly thought the other musicians bascially NEEDED him to complete their songs. But any quick listen to demos (such as with Hold me) or the stripped down masters on Tusk of Honey Hi and Never Forget reveal what Christine has always said...she usually has a good idea of where she wants her songs to go before she enters the studio and that only when she's being generous to Lindsey do the songs differ vastly from their original conception.

Lindsey has also been credited with exploiting the Byrds-like vocal formula which, according to Rolling Stone's review of Tusk, began with "You make Loving Fun" and is abundant throughout Tusk. It's not hard to hear Chris using thick YMLF-like vocal textures much earlier, such as on the title track to Heroes are Hard to Find or in her harmonies to Emerald Eyes.

In short, she was most likely very involved in all stages of arrangment and prodcution of those records. She just doesn't blab about what a tortured genius she is.

I totally agree. Christine is more than capable of producing her songs as she proved on ITM. On the Making of Rumours DVD Ken Caillat says about (I think) YMLF that Christine basically had it "already worked out in her head".

I found one of the comments about Tusk particularly irritating. CAH seems to suggest that Lindsey was adamant about none of the band performing on his songs. I not sure he gets the idea of being in a band.

Gail

[michelej1]

The other Christine comment of Carol's that I found unlikely is the bit about Lindsey's epilepsy. That audio tape has been circulated in which Christine asks Mick if she should just say that Lindsey has a mild form of epilepsy when people ask. Mick tells her no. Since Christine was prepared to say Lindsey had epilepsy herself and was only stopped by Mick, it doesn't make sense when Carol writes that Christine was the one lecturing Lindsey about not disclosing his malady to the media. From the audio tape, I never thought Christine thought there was anything wrong with doing so herself. Mick is the one who didn't want to.

Michele

[macfan 57]

Originally Posted by Gailh

I found one of the comments about Tusk particularly irritating. CAH seems to suggest that Lindsey was adamant about none of the band performing on his songs. I not sure he gets the idea of being in a band.
Gail

Yes, that made it sound as if Lindsey thought the rest of the band would somehow ruin his songs by playing on them, which is ridiculous. I believe Mick in his book mentioned that neither of the McVies liked the arrangement. The only reason they put up with what they did was because they were trying to keep Lindsey in Fleetwood Mac.

[aleuzzi]

Don't get me wrong: I think Lindsey's an excellent producer-arranger. Most of his arrangments on Say You Will (with the exception of an occasional major screw up) is really quite good. I also think his guitar fills on various songs by the other two writers' are great. I just don't think he is the sole visionary there. A lot of the MAC studio chemistry came from Christine. Her mutli-layered vocal harmonies on the Pre-BN songs shows she was getting quite savvy in the studio. And didn't she say once she was one of the first people to purchase an arp-string ensemble and use it on a pop record?

[Blondie85]

OMG, can we please stop nip picking & scrutinizing every single sentence in a quote or article. Why dont you let up and stop looking for stuff thats not really there. Everything always has to turn into a discussion about Lindsey Vs Christine on this board.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

When I was young I was so used to reading about what a grand producer Lindsey was that I honestly thought the other musicians bascially NEEDED him to complete their songs. But any quick listen to demos (such as with Hold me) or the stripped down masters on Tusk of Honey Hi and Never Forget reveal what Christine has always said...she usually has a good idea of where she wants her songs to go before she enters the studio and that only when she's being generous to Lindsey do the songs differ vastly from their original conception.

Lindsey has also been credited with exploiting the Byrds-like vocal formula which, according to Rolling Stone's review of Tusk, began with "You make Loving Fun" and is abundant throughout Tusk. It's not hard to hear Chris using thick YMLF-like vocal textures much earlier, such as on the title track to Heroes are Hard to Find or in her harmonies to Emerald Eyes.

In short, she was most likely very involved in all stages of arrangment and prodcution of those records. She just doesn't blab about what a tortured genius she is.

AMEN!!!!

[macfan 57]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

Don't get me wrong: I think Lindsey's an excellent producer-arranger. Most of his arrangments on Say You Will (with the exception of an occasional major screw up) is really quite good. I also think his guitar fills on various songs by the other two writers' are great. I just don't think he is the sole visionary there. A lot of the MAC studio chemistry came from Christine. Her mutli-layered vocal harmonies on the Pre-BN songs shows she was getting quite savvy in the studio. And didn't she say once she was one of the first people to purchase an arp-string ensemble and use it on a pop record?

I don't have the exact quote, but I'm not sure she was talking about the arp string ensemble. She may have been referring to the mellotron. I know whatever it was, she said that it had a very low serial number.

I completely agree with your post, by the way.

[Gailh]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

Don't get me wrong: I think Lindsey's an excellent producer-arranger. Most of his arrangments on Say You Will (with the exception of an occasional major screw up) is really quite good. I also think his guitar fills on various songs by the other two writers' are great. I just don't think he is the sole visionary there. A lot of the MAC studio chemistry came from Christine. Her mutli-layered vocal harmonies on the Pre-BN songs shows she was getting quite savvy in the studio. And didn't she say once she was one of the first people to purchase an arp-string ensemble and use it on a pop record?

I totally agree. No-one is saying Lindsey isn't talented. I happen to think he is a very talented producer and guitarist and lately a very good songwriter. Sometimes his attitude seems to suggest that he "does it all". According to Mick's book that's what annoyed Christine at the meeting at her house just before the Tango tour. Lindsey saying "I can't do it all anymore"

Gail

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by Gailh

I totally agree. No-one is saying Lindsey isn't talented. I happen to think he is a very talented producer and guitarist and lately a very good songwriter. Sometimes his attitude seems to suggest that he "does it all". According to Mick's book that's what annoyed Christine at the meeting at her house just before the Tango tour. Lindsey saying "I can't do it all anymore"

Gail

see this is why can't stand Linsdey's bitching.....

he wants it all his way..... he wants to control all the work..... he toots his own horn.... then bitches he had to do it that way.....

i wish christine would dragged him by his hair down her driveway!! lol

[michelej1]

But this is rather apples and oranges. In Mick's book, Lindsey was complaining about Tango and most of his frustration probably came from the fact that Stevie wasn't around and he had to kind of manipulate the songs to make it sound like she was. It's probably due to Stevie's absence that he and Christine collaborated more on Tango than they did elsewhere and far from making it sound like he did it all, he told Creem that Tango had Christine's best batch of songs ever. Michele

[Gailh]

Originally Posted by michelej1

But this is rather apples and oranges. In Mick's book, Lindsey was complaining about Tango and most of his frustration probably came from the fact that Stevie wasn't around and he had to kind of manipulate the songs to make it sound like she was. It's probably due to Stevie's absence that he and Christine collaborated more on Tango than they did elsewhere and far from making it sound like he did it all, he told Creem that Tango had Christine's best batch of songs ever. Michele

In Mick's book Lindsey was complaining about having to "do it all" and this was just after the album was completed and they had the meeting at Christine's house. He may well have said that Tango had Christine's best bunch of songs (and I agree with him) but he does come across (as jbrownsjr says) as wanting it all ways - wanting the control and then moaning that he has to do it all.

Gail

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Gailh

In Mick's book Lindsey was complaining about having to "do it all" and this was just after the album was completed and they had the meeting at Christine's house. He may well have said that Tango had Christine's best bunch of songs (and I agree with him) but he does come across (as jbrownsjr says) as wanting it all ways - wanting the control and then moaning that he has to do it all.

Gail

Yeah, but that comment from Lindsey was related to Tango and the production on that, not the history of the band as a whole. Certainly it's clear that he generally likes all of the control, that's especially apparent by the time you get to the Say You Will album. But back during the period when he made the "doing it all" comment attributed to him in Mick's book, when it came to Tango, he didn't seek that control out. On the contrary, Lindsey wasn't even going to produce the album, Mick said he kind of tricked him into doing it in a roundabout way, by hiring other producers that couldn't handle the job.

As for Tusk Lindsey never did the keyboards on his own songs. He did John and Mick's parts. Judging from Christine's appearances on his solo albums up to GOS, I'd say he welcomed her help in and out of the band, until Say You Will.

Michele

[macfan 57]

Originally Posted by michelej1

As for Tusk Lindsey never did the keyboards on his own songs. He did John and Mick's parts. Judging from Christine's appearances on his solo albums up to GOS, I'd say he welcomed her help in and out of the band, until Say You Will.

Michele

Lindsey did play piano on "What Makes You Think You're The One", although Chris played it live during the Tusk tour. Chris did mention this in a 1980 keyboard magazine article. Chris has also described his Tusk songs as a solo album within a Fleetwood Mac album.

[michelej1]

Yeah, I did see Lindsey talking about doing "What Makes You Think You're the One" alone at night with Mick on drums. He said there was no Christine holding him back on that one! I also just got home, to look at my copy of Mick's book and he was saying he can't do it all anymore, after giving 12 years of his life to the band. Michele

[Gailh]

Originally Posted by macfan 57

Lindsey did play piano on "What Makes You Think You're The One", although Chris played it live during the Tusk tour. Chris did mention this in a 1980 keyboard magazine article. Chris has also described his Tusk songs as a solo album within a Fleetwood Mac album.

Yes that just about sums it up. I was shocked to read in CAH's book that for one song on Tusk (it may have been more) Lindsey sat behind John and made him the play the exact notes he wanted. He doesn't sound to me that he wanted to be in band at that point. If I was being cynical (heaven forbid) it sounds like he wanted the brand name but not the others "interfering" with his masterpieces.

Gail