Why so much Stevie hating?

[SisterNightroad]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

I think the three English quietly throw shade.

Ah ah, yes, I can see it. Talking trash and gossiping while sipping tea.

[WayOfTheDragon]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

I think the three English quietly throw shade.

This reminded me of some remarks Bob Welch made during one of his Q&A's on the Penguin site, so I did some digging to find his exact words:

"The thing I wish that all the fans would realize about FM, is that everyone, Stevie , Lindsey, Rick Vito , Billy, Bekka, Bob Weston etc are all really nice and fun people, the SOURPUSSES, are, and have always been, in my opinion, Mick, John and Chris, who have tended to act as if they were English "royalty" and "Better" than everybody else.
I'll tell you another little secret that is not known at all except to a few close "insiders" and me. I met Lindsey once at Chuck's Steak House, ( next to the old "Record Plant" studios) on Melrose in LA after Lindsey had been in the band maybe 6 months, and was in the middle of recording the white album. We had a couple of beers and then he confided in me, "how the hell did you stand it?" he asked me. I knew immediately what he meant...the "emotional atmosphere" created by Mick, John and Chris, all together in the same room could get intolerable at times. Imagine being locked in a room, for MONTHS at a time, with the 3 of your relatives that make you the most uncomfortable ! Maybe there is your uncle, who is always drunk, and who you have to "humor". Then there is your maiden aunt, who is alternately crotchety or making "crotch" references, and who is unmercifully sarcastic to boot. Then there is your brother who, although bright, has a slight learning disability, and rather than talk, he prefers to communicate in his own brand of "body English", gestures, and eye movements ! All of you are together in this tiny room trying to think up music, and it's costing you 300$ an hour to be there. Months go by...eyes are still rolling, sarcasm still flying, people never "say what they mean" and you have to keep guessing, flying blind. And it's still costing you 300$ an hour to do this.
Any body who EVER was in FM, had to put up with some version of this.
In the end, Lindsey was actually thinking of leaving FM 6 months after he joined...he didn't know if he could "take" it. At Chuck's, I told him, "you got 2 choices; get out, or swallow hard, bite the bullet and hang in there". I told Lindsey that this was a great "shot" for him, and if he could just persist with these people, like I had for five years, it might all be worth it. Maybe my advice helped him, or not...but he stayed."

Source: http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/qa/bobwelch_qa3.htm

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by WayOfTheDragon

This reminded me of some remarks Bob Welch made during one of his Q&A's on the Penguin site, so I did some digging to find his exact words:


Source: http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/qa/bobwelch_qa3.htm

I remember this, clearly. And then to think LB had to deal with SN later.. her affair with Mick and heavy drug use..

No wonder Lindsey got so angry!! lol

[SisterNightroad]

Originally Posted by WayOfTheDragon

This reminded me of some remarks Bob Welch made during one of his Q&A's on the Penguin site, so I did some digging to find his exact words:


Source: http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/qa/bobwelch_qa3.htm

Very interesting, thanks!

[Nathan]

Thanks for the links, totally interesting.

I'm just listening to the limo tapes (four parts) and at one point, Chris says to Stevie, "Were you kidding or were you out of it?"

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by WayOfTheDragon

This reminded me of some remarks Bob Welch made during one of his Q&A's on the Penguin site, so I did some digging to find his exact words:


Source: http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/qa/bobwelch_qa3.htm

I remember these remarks by Bob. They had a ring of truth about them. Christine can be sarcastic, John can be dark and moody, and Mick can be a drama queen. Ken Caillat also admitted that Christine was no picnic to work with ("That's a stupid ****ing shirt!"). She is practically mocking Stevie to her face on the Tusk documentary outtake ("Angels in the background.") But context is everything. Could you imagine working at the boards hour after hour watching and listening to Stevie describe the magnificence of her own work? I'd hurl.

At the time Lindsey allegedly met with Bob, he had been battling with John about John's bass parts. Mick discusses this in his book. There was also a definite pecking order in the band, with Fleetwood and the McVies at the top. Lindsey was used to being top dog in his duo; he was used to controlling all the musical decisions. I'm sure contending with the British core trio must have frustrated him. That, as the music reveals, was best for all parties involved.

Another consideration: Bob was pissed at Mick, John, and especially Chris during that Q and A. They shut him out of the RRHOF, and basically ignored his legacy presumably because he sued them--a bitter and ironic echo of the 1974 lineup's battle with Clifford Davis. Before this, all of Bob's previous remarks about the band (admittedly decades earlier) were overwhelmingly positive. Take a look at The Dance rehearsal interviews. At one point Mick offhandedly mentions Bob's unexpected departure from the band. Christine visibly stiffens and coldly says "the writing was on the wall." John echoes Christine's words. Clearly that lawsuit was a source of bitter contention. So, in all, I don't know if Bob's assessment of the Brits is entirely fair or accurate.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

Another consideration: Bob was pissed at Mick, John, and especially Chris during that Q and A. They shut him out of the RRHOF, and basically ignored his legacy. He, in turn, sued them--a bitter and ironic echo of the 1974 lineup's battle with Clifford Davis. Before this, all of Bob's previous remarks about the band (admittedly decades earlier) were overwhelmingly positive. Take a look at The Dance rehearsal interviews. At one point Mick offhandedly mentions Bob's unexpected departure from the band. Christine visibly stiffens and coldly says "the writing was on the wall." John echoes Christine's words. Clearly that lawsuit was a source of bitter contention. So, in all, I don't know if Bob's assessment of the Brits is entirely fair or accurate.

This was my immediate thought. Except I think you have your dates out of order- I believe Bob sued the band for unpaid royalties first, which caused Christine (allegedly) to block Bob's admission into the RRHOF. In any case, there were definitely sour grapes when Bob did his Q&As here. Later on, he also wasn't pleased with Stevie and Lindsey, either. He claimed fame had insulated them to an unhealthy degree. He lashed out against them for not helping with a fundraiser for his wife, etc.

I think in the end, Bob was just bitter with the entertainment industry. He was bitter with the way it treated his parents (his Father was a producer and screenwriter, and his Mother a singer and actress). See his solo song Devil Wind for proof. He was bitter with the way the entertainment industry treated him. I think to survive and flourish in the industry, you have to be ruthless, relentless, and calculating. Bob seemed to be none of those things- he was wistful, caring, and principled.

[Missy]

This is one of the reasons why I haven't been posting lately. I can deal with it in the general comments section I guess. But the negativity is even in the Stevie Nicks part of the site. I don't understand - if you just don't like somebody, why do you have to enter a section of a site that is dedicated to them just to bash them? It's not something that I would do. I respect that we all have different tastes and I don't feel the need to go on a forum of someone I don't like so much to try and derail fan discussions. It's just rude, ungracious and impolite.

No artist is perfect, and none of them should be above some constructive criticism. But I've seen it going beyond that. Sometimes it feels more like a site of haters rather than a group of people with an interest in the subject. I'm disappointed.

They've all given out a lot during the years and have the right now to do whatever makes them happy. Whether solo or together.

[sorcerer999]

Originally Posted by Missy

This is one of the reasons why I haven't been posting lately. I can deal with it in the general comments section I guess. But the negativity is even in the Stevie Nicks part of the site. I don't understand - if you just don't like somebody, why do you have to enter a section of a site that is dedicated to them just to bash them? It's not something that I would do. I respect that we all have different tastes and I don't feel the need to go on a forum of someone I don't like so much to try and derail fan discussions. It's just rude, ungracious and impolite.

No artist is perfect, and none of them should be above some constructive criticism. But I've seen it going beyond that. Sometimes it feels more like a site of haters rather than a group of people with an interest in the subject. I'm disappointed.

They've all given out a lot during the years and have the right now to do whatever makes them happy. Whether solo or together.

THANK YOU!!!

It amazes me the amount of sanctimonious and self righteous "know it all" sourpusses on here who are so ready to talk smack about band members, tear them down, place the blame, hold a grudge and WISH for them to fail. The Rumours forum, as of late, seems to have been overrun with a bunch of three year olds. And yes, Missy, I'm also EXTREMELY disappointed.

There are certain people on here who have taken the disrespect to a whole new level. This isn't "friendly debate" or "respecting opinions" anymore. It is downright crude and discourteous.

I'm not only talking about the Stevie haters, but also the hate thrown toward the other band members as well. Just stop!

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

This was my immediate thought. Except I think you have your dates out of order- I believe Bob sued the band for unpaid royalties first, which caused Christine (allegedly) to block Bob's admission into the RRHOF. In any case, there were definitely sour grapes when Bob did his Q&As here. Later on, he also wasn't pleased with Stevie and Lindsey, either. He claimed fame had insulated them to an unhealthy degree. He lashed out against them for not helping with a fundraiser for his wife, etc.

I think in the end, Bob was just bitter with the entertainment industry. He was bitter with the way it treated his parents (his Father was a producer and screenwriter, and his Mother a singer and actress). See his solo song Devil Wind for proof. He was bitter with the way the entertainment industry treated him. I think to survive and flourish in the industry, you have to be ruthless, relentless, and calculating. Bob seemed to be none of those things- he was wistful, caring, and principled.

Yes, you're right. I knew he sued them first. My "in turn" was meant as an "on the other hand." I'll edit it

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by sorcerer999

THANK YOU!!!

It amazes me the amount of sanctimonious and self righteous "know it all" sourpusses on here who are so ready to talk smack about band members, tear them down, place the blame, hold a grudge and WISH for them to fail. The Rumours forum, as of late, seems to have been overrun with a bunch of three year olds. And yes, Missy, I'm also EXTREMELY disappointed.

There are certain people on here who have taken the disrespect to a whole new level. This isn't "friendly debate" or "respecting opinions" anymore. It is downright crude and discourteous.

I'm not only talking about the Stevie haters, but also the hate thrown toward the other band members as well. Just stop!

I've seen some of this. I may have even contributed to it in my own way. Without speaking for others, I can say the frustration life-long fans have had for five people who can't seem to get their collective butts in gear and make a new record that has already been years in the making is, well, trying.

There are a few things I don't get:

1. Comments about Stevie's weight or appearance.

2. Comments about the band being nothing without Stevie.

3. Comments about Stevie's sex life.

None of these things are really relevant, IMO.

I DO think fans have a right to be pissed and vent their frustrations about their favorite band, however. The prospect of another oldies tour without new music is simply unacceptable.

[louielouie2000]

Isn't complaining about complainers akin to f*cking for virginity?

As the saying goes, be the change you want to see in the world. Lead through example. And all those other tired old cliches.

As far as the festering malcontent around here; the Ledge has never, ever been a bed of roses. It's actually far more pleasant and peaceful now than it's ever been. Not that we can't strive for better. All the same, I am a big believer in letting this place be what it wants to be organically. There have been other sites over the years that tried to force certain mindsets; they didn't last.

I also get the indignation with the band. For those of us who have followed this band for a while, we feel like we've lost our last shreds of sanity. The Dance was 20 years ago now; everyone thought that was the beginnings of a grand new chapter. 2 decades later all we got was 1 partial band album and 1 partial band EP. It's been 3 decades since the last full band album. John McVie has been diagnosed with cancer; former FM members have passed since then, and those who officially supported the band such as managers, secretaries, photographers, etc are starting to die off at a rather concerning pace. The sense of urgency the "complainers" exhibit around here is certainly well founded. Assigning perceived blame is definitely warranted as well. Be that with Stevie for not recording new material with the band; or the rest of the band for not moving on without her.

All this being said, let's get back to talking about the music (or lack thereof) instead of b*tching about each other.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by Missy

This is one of the reasons why I haven't been posting lately. I can deal with it in the general comments section I guess. But the negativity is even in the Stevie Nicks part of the site. I don't understand - if you just don't like somebody, why do you have to enter a section of a site that is dedicated to them just to bash them? It's not something that I would do. I respect that we all have different tastes and I don't feel the need to go on a forum of someone I don't like so much to try and derail fan discussions. It's just rude, ungracious and impolite.

No artist is perfect, and none of them should be above some constructive criticism. But I've seen it going beyond that. Sometimes it feels more like a site of haters rather than a group of people with an interest in the subject. I'm disappointed.

They've all given out a lot during the years and have the right now to do whatever makes them happy. Whether solo or together.

There's negativity in the Stevie section? I'm like a nun over there. Hostile territory.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

I also get the indignation with the band. For those of us who have followed this band for a while, we feel like we've lost our last shreds of sanity. The Dance was 20 years ago now; everyone thought that was the beginnings of a grand new chapter. 2 decades later all we got was 1 partial band album and 1 partial band EP. It's been 3 decades since the last full band album. John McVie has been diagnosed with cancer; former FM members have passed since then, and those who officially supported the band such as managers, secretaries, photographers, etc are starting to die off at a rather concerning pace. The sense of urgency the "complainers" exhibit around here is certainly well founded. Assigning perceived blame is definitely warranted as well. Be that with Stevie for not recording new material with the band; or the rest of the band for not moving on without her.

All this being said, let's get back to talking about the music (or lack thereof) instead of b*tching about each other.

This. Definitely this.

[secret love]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Isn't complaining about complainers akin to f*cking for virginity?

As the saying goes, be the change you want to see in the world. Lead through example. And all those other tired old cliches.

As far as the festering malcontent around here; the Ledge has never, ever been a bed of roses. It's actually far more pleasant and peaceful now than it's ever been. Not that we can't strive for better. All the same, I am a big believer in letting this place be what it wants to be organically. There have been other sites over the years that tried to force certain mindsets; they didn't last.

I also get the indignation with the band. For those of us who have followed this band for a while, we feel like we've lost our last shreds of sanity. The Dance was 20 years ago now; everyone thought that was the beginnings of a grand new chapter. 2 decades later all we got was 1 partial band album and 1 partial band EP. It's been 3 decades since the last full band album. John McVie has been diagnosed with cancer; former FM members have passed since then, and those who officially supported the band such as managers, secretaries, photographers, etc are starting to die off at a rather concerning pace. The sense of urgency the "complainers" exhibit around here is certainly well founded. Assigning perceived blame is definitely warranted as well. Be that with Stevie for not recording new material with the band; or the rest of the band for not moving on without her.

All this being said, let's get back to talking about the music (or lack thereof) instead of b*tching about each other.

As the Original Poster, I completely agree with you. Maybe my sentiments were not too clearly expressed or articulated. So:

I'm frustrated that it is taboo to release a Buck Mac or duet Fleetwood Mac album, why not chuck on three vault songs and just say it's business as usual? FFS Stevie says she spent two weeks with them for Tango!

Mick says Stevie and Lindsey did studio time together for the EP. Maybe they recorded one or two unreleased tracks which could now be used? Or rough demos or unreleased vault songs with Linds backing vocals?

Christine appears happy to release the album sans (YES THAT MEANS WITHOUT, PEOPLE AHAHAHA) Stevie

She is a sensible woman. Listen to CHRISTINE, Linds!!!!!!!!!