Mick and Stevie RULE!!!

[CarneVaca]

I think some of us are confusing accessibility with commercialism.

For instance, in 1992 I would hardly call "Soul Drifter" a commercial song. Is it accessible? Most certainly, as is all of "Out of the Cradle," at least to my ears. Any time I've played "Out of the Cradle" songs for people, they get this expression of amazement, like, "Wow, who is that?" Yet, the album didn't sell. I've tried to figure it out, but it still doesn't make sense to me.

I don't believe "Steal Your Heart Away" is terribly commercial, even though I have said that very thing in the past (lest someone picks up on an apparent contradiction). It's an accessible song, but if it were commercial, it would have hit big when it was released to radio a few months ago.

What is commercial today is what will sell today, and in some ways, what we have grown used to hear. Something like "Go Your Own Way" may sound commercial today because everybody's heard it 6,000 times, it really was fairly unorthodox in 1977.

[BBALLGYPSY17]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Something like "Go Your Own Way" may sound commercial today because everybody's heard it 6,000 times, it really was fairly unorthodox in 1977.

Standards change and stuff, good argument, but wasn't that song played (Or OVERplayed-not that I get sick of hearing it) *just* as much back then? Radio stations loved that single, it might in fact be thee most "commercial" thing he's ever done. They didn't play much of anything out of the ordinary til much later. (aside from the moron who released the whole 'Tusk Album' pre-release on air) Majority were stickler for soft-rock formula, so tell me, how do you get the 'unorthodox'? Because if you're talking just about the obsession over the production (over production, perfect production).. then... yyyyeah. Most musicians probably didn't need to stay in the studio that long for a single like that. Many weren't perfectionists and/or already so well-established they can get anything on air Not to say it's not my fav song of his

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by BBALLGYPSY17
so tell me, how do you get the 'unorthodox'? Because if you're talking just about the obsession over the production (over production, perfect production).. then... yyyyeah.

The beat is the most unorthodox thing about the song. Then think of how all the instruments come together, even though they are pulling in different directions. There's a lot of tension in the way the verses are structured. Then everything falls in line in the chorus, including the beat, and it's a kind of catharsis. And it matches the message. Brilliant, really.

[wondergirl9847]

Christy... trust me when I say that my comments about Lindsey and Fleetwood Mac making commercial music, are in no way meant to be disparaging.

I know. I just wanted to say that I don't think commercial = crap 100% of the time.

When I think commercial, I think radio, but also, I'm thinking accessible as well, Carne. Lindsey's "wierd" (for lack of a better term. LOL) songs such as Time Bomb Town (complete with herky jerky singing) and 99% of the Tusk songs are songs that mostly Lindsey fans love. Not that your casual listener wouldn't like them if they heard them, but it's just that with Lindsey, I feel like most people need to dip their toe in, before jumping in the pool. LOL

[teedee]

Originally posted by 4Buck
I think Nicks wants this tour to last a long, long time:

"If we get out there (on stage) and we're just having a great time, then we're going to say we could go on forever doing this.

Who knows, let's just say a prayer and hope this goes on forever!"

- Stevie Nicks from Destiny Rules Documentary

and dont you think lindsey wants the same thing? after all he has to pay for that new house, lol
. Lindsey , from the destiny rule doc.

[teedee]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Just putting two and two together, Nancy. It may have had something to do with the gleeful, expectant look she gave the label guy after playing the Say You Will demo and saying, "It's commercial, right?"

It's not contrived at all.

geeze do you ever give stevie any credit or is it all and everything is lindsey in your book.... im not doubting lindseys knowledge, but is she just suppose to have no input and go with whatever lindsey says?but why should nt she have some say? wasnt it lindsey who thought stevie was going to end up with chris, but no she met with both and went with mark. and whats wrong with being an songwriter and wanting your song to be a commercial success? when i say commerecial success, in my book, i mean to hear it on the radio alot. I mean you write music, we hear music on the radio, its what they do. i think its totally ok for a songwriter to want that. maybe thats why her solo stuff was more successful. but that doesnt mean a commerecial song is any less of value than a non commercial song and vice versa, but a commercial song now and again will at least lead people to buy a cd, otherwise the general public, (not the die hard fans) wont even know a new cd exists. if your were a screen writer and wrote a movie wouldnt you want people to be sitting in the theatre , rather than waiting til it shows up on video, or the bargain bin?

[CarneVaca]

Teedee, if you think the stuff you're hearing on the radio is great music, that tells me all I need to know.

There's a difference between music that is original and creative, and it just happens to achieve commercial success, and music that is written expressly to be played on the radio. Very different situations. If you like formulaic commercial music, good for you. To me, it stinks.

[teedee]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Teedee, if you think the stuff you're hearing on the radio is great music, that tells me all I need to know.

There's a difference between music that is original and creative, and it just happens to achieve commercial success, and music that is written expressly to be played on the radio. Very different situations. If you like formulaic commercial music, good for you. To me, it stinks.

carne believe me when i say i dislike most of the music thats out here today, these young artists today are just puppets. but when i say a commercial song by fleetwood mac, i in no way mean to compare its credibility to the crap thats out there today. i dont think even fm's worst song is as half as bad as what they play on the radio. i just think one great commercial song sometimes helps lead the buyer to the store. unfortunately , the radio too is a business that gets its palms greased and is told what to push. so , older bands are in a lose lose situation when it comes to radio play.. with the mac, i think the touring is there success machine. it would be just nice to be driving in the car and here a new fm song on the radio and not just the classics... altho my heros are all from the sixtys , seventies and eighties.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by teedee
when i say a commercial song by fleetwood mac, i in no way mean to compare its credibility to the crap thats out there today.

And if that's the case, and I happen to agree with you there, wouldn't it just make sense for Stevie and Lindsey to just say, "To hell with commercial songs, let's just do what we want." Let's face it, they could have gotten their album out even if Reprise had rejected it. Because, as we know, a reject doesn't mean it's bad. They could have gone to Interscope or a number of independent labels that would have jumped at the chance to have Fleetwood Mac.

Slipping intentionally commercial songs into a FM CD at this point just soils the work and, clearly, does not get them enough radio play anyway.

[shackin'up]

Being commercial as intention stinks. Sometimes you just don't know what hits. Tusk was the highest ranking Macsong of the 70's in the UK! OH Well was number one in the netherlands in '69. I am totally convinced that something like Gift of Screws or Shuffle Riff or Miranda, Destiny Rules or even illume would have done much better in terms of recordsales for the album (if all those songs were on it) than the singles they did put out now. Because an old brand MUST shake the expectations of the listener to provoke new attention.

It's just dumb to try to cope with the industry in radioland. They did that in choosing the single-album. And they caved in in the choice for singles, too. Maybe that worked a little bit in the States, but certainly not in Europe. I believe, even in these strange consumption-times, character can sell. it's a shame that an album with a lot of a-typical songs, did not once provided a single that Pushed the so called envelope...

And now I'm going to play with my 4-year-old son who's sitting in his bath singing "I'm a poor lonesome cowboy, I'm a long way from home......" not bad for a dutch kid....




gerald

[teedee]

Originally posted by BBALLGYPSY17
Standards change and stuff, good argument, but wasn't that song played (Or OVERplayed-not that I get sick of hearing it) *just* as much back then? Radio stations loved that single, it might in fact be thee most "commercial" thing he's ever done. They didn't play much of anything out of the ordinary til much later. (aside from the moron who released the whole 'Tusk Album' pre-release on air) Majority were stickler for soft-rock formula, so tell me, how do you get the 'unorthodox'? Because if you're talking just about the obsession over the production (over production, perfect production).. then... yyyyeah. Most musicians probably didn't need to stay in the studio that long for a single like that. Many weren't perfectionists and/or already so well-established they can get anything on air Not to say it's not my fav song of his

yes gyow, was played alot back in the day when it was released, so i would think that it was a commercial song.

[teedee]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
And if that's the case, and I happen to agree with you there, wouldn't it just make sense for Stevie and Lindsey to just say, "To hell with commercial songs, let's just do what we want." Let's face it, they could have gotten their album out even if Reprise had rejected it. Because, as we know, a reject doesn't mean it's bad. They could have gone to Interscope or a number of independent labels that would have jumped at the chance to have Fleetwood Mac.

Slipping intentionally commercial songs into a FM CD at this point just soils the work and, clearly, does not get them enough radio play anyway.

"lets just do what we want"
i do basically think that they do , do what they want already. or at least they did on syw. but i also see nothing wrong with an artist wanting to have a commercial success. i think when an artist/band puts out new material, they want some kind of commercial success/air play/ call it what you want.. but a hit song, generally will bring up the number of sales , than hurt the number of sales. and when i say have a commercial success, that doesnt mean i want them to lower there standards of writing because if whats out there today..

[cliffdweller]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
By the same token, LB will never get rid of his tortured artist driving a Benz in the big house on the hill schtick.

You got it. Lindsey's just trying to be controversial and ruffle some feathers. In the end, if he really wanted indie cred, he would have recorded his solo album in his basement and released it on a minor label or on the internet. He's so full of it sometimes, he kind of acts like a spoiled brat---like someone else on another board said, he wants his cake and to eat it too!

You can't have it both ways Linds!

Stevie Nicks the drama queen? Hello Mr. Buckingham!

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by teedee
[Band when i say have a commercial success, that doesnt mean i want them to lower there standards of writing because if whats out there today.. [/B]

Well, evidently, if we are to assume that they didn't lower their standards to put commercial songs in SYW, they might have fared better commercially if they did. The album, though a success by some measures, is a failure by FM measures.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by cliffdweller
You got it. Lindsey's just trying to be controversial and ruffle some feathers. In the end, if he really wanted indie cred, he would have recorded his solo album in his basement and released it on a minor label or on the internet. He's so full of it sometimes, he kind of acts like a spoiled brat---like someone else on another board said, he wants his cake and to eat it too!

You can't have it both ways Linds!

Stevie Nicks the drama queen? Hello Mr. Buckingham!

What exactly makes him a spoiled brat? Is it his zealous protection of the integrity of the music? Is it the fact that he does that while driving a Mercedes?

I agree that he should have given the independent-label idea a try for his solo record, but then we wouldn't be talking about a FM record right now, would we?