Making Rumours by Ken Caillat

[ironman_01701]

When "The Drummer" move is released, and if Vera Farmiga does an outstanding roll playing Christine McVie, and especially if the move is a hit, it might be the nail on the coffin of the FM Band. The FM band members will be in a rush (less so with John) to sign deals with Warner Brothers. Egos are hard to remove for members in this band, despite the kind words they stated in Ken's book. Making money by touring is a very tough way to earn money, especially at their age all in their mid 60's.

[Katydid]

This book just came out in August of 2012, and I only found out about it about a week ago! I read it in one sitting! I highly suggest that anyone what wants to know what another person who sat in during the making of Rumours has to say, to definitely read this book!!

Here is a sample from this book:

"I would really love to use Lindsey as a guitarist on the albums I'm working on today, but he's just such a difficult, unhappy person so much of the time that it's too much work to deal with him. Lindsey and I never discussed his trying to STRANGLE me back in Miami, even though I often thought about it when he walked into the studio, especially in the days and weeks after it happened." But this is Ken Caillat's version and Lindsey, in all fairness, should have his say about this as well.

Hmmm....I read Carol Ann Harris' book, Storms, and things that make you go, hmm.

Some good photos in this book as well!

[elle]

Originally Posted by Katydid

This book just came out in August of 2012, and I only found out about it about a week ago! I read it in one sitting! I highly suggest that anyone what wants to know what another person who sat in during the making of Rumours has to say, to definitely read this book!!

welcome to The Ledge! there were several threads discussing this book when it was about to come out and then when it first came out and for some reason i have trouble finding all of them (probably b/c titles given were about discussing certain points from the book). but here's one of the threads if you are interested - http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showth...umours+Caillat

incidentally, Ken Caillat announced that paperback will be out this april.

[redtulip]

30 Days Out Interview: Ken Caillat (Producer of Fleetwood Mac’s ‘Rumours’)

http://30daysout.wordpress.com/2013/...-macs-rumours/

Fleetwood Mac was one of the most successful and unique rock bands of the 1970s. After toiling for nearly a decade as a journeyman British blues-rock band, the Mac exploded into mainstream consciousness when they added American pop rockers Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks to the lineup.

The peak came in 1977 when Fleetwood Mac released the album Rumours, which yielded four Top 10 singles, sold more than 40 million copies and won a Grammy Award for Album of the Year. The band took almost a year to cut Rumours and while doing so lived a rock and roll soap opera marked by divorce, infidelity and constant drug use, all of which threatened to tear the band apart.

Buckingham and Nicks were no longer a couple, and they wrote thinly disguised songs about their failed relationship. Christine and John McVie were in the throes of their own divorce, as was drummer Mick Fleetwood. And all the while, the drugs and booze flowed freely.

Ken Caillat, as one of the producers of Rumours, had a ringside seat to the drama. He’s written a book, Making Rumours: The Inside Story of the Classic Fleetwood Mac Album, that pulls back the curtain on the making of this masterpiece rock album. We caught up with him after he visited Austin to talk about his book at the Texas Book Festival.

30 Days Out: How did you come to write the book?

Caillat: It was a time and an event that means a lot to many people. It was extraordinary to be a part of this album. I’m one of the only people who can write about how this great album was made. It’s kind of my responsibility to tell the story, I wish somebody had done that with the Beatles. While we were making Rumours I wanted to try and jot it all down, and I have extensive records and track sheets of everything we did. Not only was I a producer, I was also a kind of documentarian, I knew the facts of everything we did and when we did it.

Caillat: Actually when I began writing the book I had the intention of going to the band and getting their perspective. So I started trying to set up the interviews with the band, telling them I wanted to make sure it’s 100 percent correct and accurate. And after a while I got this phone call … They declined! They said they don’t help people, that’s not what they do.

30 Days Out: What does that mean?

Caillat: You got me!

30 Days Out: We really like the way you did it, sticking only to your point of view. You really didn’t need the band, right?

Caillat: Well, I am sure there was something they could have enlightened me on … the type of guitar strings they used, or some trick they did that I didn’t know about. I made a rule I wasn’t going to speculate on what they did when they went home. What I knew, what I saw, that’s what I wrote about. It would have been cool to have some of the intrigue that went on, that I only heard about. For example with Christine (McVie) … John (McVie) kept sniffing around the hotel, she didn’t want anything to do with him. Christine had to hide in Stevie’s room.

30 Days Out: We get the impression from the book that Christine was sort of your favorite person in the band.

Caillat: Um, you know, sort of, but not necessarily. She was constant, she could be (unreasonable) at times, but most of the time you could just talk to her. Mick and the others, it wasn’t so easy. Sometimes you didn’t know what was going on and where you stood with them. If they were too high, you couldn’t talk to them.

30 Days Out: Were the members of Fleetwood Mac upset when they learned you were going to write this book?

Caillat: I don’t know … the funny thing is, I have done two DVDs about Rumours for two different companies at two different times. I interviewed the band for each one, and there was no problem. This time, though, after about two months of not getting any answers, I get a phone call saying the band has decided not to participate in the new album. I think it was because Lindsey Buckingham may want to write his own book at some point. So he doesn’t want the band helping.

30 Days Out: You had a few problems with Lindsey down the road. How was he to work with?

Caillat: He was just a real nervous, intense guy. I used to say he’d walk in and suck the fun out of the room. There was an engineer who worked on the album after Mirage – Tango In The Night – the engineer read my book and called me up. He said ‘it’s so true. Whenever everyone walked out of the room and I was alone with Lindsey, it was very uncomfortable.’ You know he’s judging you, he’s thinking about something. He’s thinking that you are thinking something about him. At that point, while we were doing Rumours, he was a nervous nellie. He’s just like that: he’d come in in the morning, always rubbing his hands together. He kept a big tape box full of pot, and he was always rolling a joint. Nonstop, rolling a joint. One time I got into an argument with Lindsey in Reno at a casino … he starting yelling at this dealer. I said you don’t treat people like that, you are just a ****ing asshole.

30 Days Out: But musically, he’s a genius …

Caillat: Absolutely, he’s a genius.

30 Days Out: When we look back at 1977 and Rumours, there really was nothing like that album or anything that even sounded like it at the time. When you were making that album, did you have a sense you were doing something really special?

Caillat: Never got that idea. We were all so tired, we were exhausted. If you go to my website and listen to some of these songs in their original form, you’d probably say this is not very good. How those songs grew over 12 months to become these amazing things, it’s truly astonishing. We didn’t know!

Caillat: A friend of mine got to listen to Rumours when it was almost done. He said “I don’t hear a hit.” And we were totally devastated. It’s astonishing to me, that album had 10 radio hits out of the 11 songs. But at the time it came out we were so tired, working 15-18 hours a day on it for the good part of an entire year. I remember at one point driving into the studio in Hollywood, and I saw Christmas decorations on Hollywood Boulevard. And I said ‘Oh, is it Christmas again already?’

30 Days Out: There must have been incredible pressure from the record company to follow up their “white album” (Fleetwood Mac from 1975) with another hit.

Caillat: Just the opposite, no pressure. The record company was sitting back smoking big cigars, they weren’t in our face. I guarantee it would not be like that if we did the same record today. With a record already sliding down the charts, they’d come in and say who the hell are these new guys? We’re going to use our ‘genius’ which they don’t have to try and make it more commercial. They would ask, why don’t you make it more like Adele?

Caillat: My daughter (singer Colbie Caillat) is going through that now. On her second album the label had a whole team, they came in … and said you should try everything, do some hip hop, do some rap stuff. I said, ‘would you like it if we dyed her hair red and got her a boob job? Would you like that too?’

30 Days Out: With that kind of atmosphere, could you make another Rumours today?

Caillat: Sure! The thing that was amazing was that budgets were big then, and costs were relatively small. We were able to spend 12 months in the studio perfecting every little bit. Analog tape was our tool at the time, it rolled on a heavy reel, and you built a song from top to bottom. When it came time to rewind the tape it may take 2-3 minutes to rewind. While you’re doing it the artist sitting in the studio at the microphone, and you end up talking, you talk about what you did, you played this, I thought you were going to go here … you get this kind of conversation which doesn’t happen in today’s digital world. Now you instantaneously you go back to the top. I have to tell my engineer don’t press play every time, so we can have that time to communicate with each other.

30 Days Out: Rumours is about to come out in a 35th anniversary edition. Are you involved with that reissue?

Caillat: No. Why not? I don’t know, it always astounds me. I’m sure it’s the money. I would have done it for nothing! There was some of that in the first two years, but as time has passed I have really nothing to do with it anymore.

30 Days Out: Going beyond the scope of the book a bit, how did you get to Tusk (1979)? It was so different than Rumours.

Caillat: Yeah, well that’s Lindsey Buckingham. I had full intentions of improving our work on Rumours and making Tusk be Rumours II . Do better on everything. But the second or third day Lindsey came in, he had a bunch of home recordings all full of distortion and grunge. Punk was getting big then, and he was into all of that. He had this big hairdo during and after Rumours …, but now he had freaked out in the shower and cut all his hair off with scissors. It was really weird looking. He said OK, we’re going to do everything different. He made me take all the edge off the guitars, saying that’s how we are going to make this record. It wasn’t what I wanted. Tusk became something totally different, kind of experimental. I said to Lindsey, so you want a darker album? There was a lot of decadence at the time … a lot of drugs, excessive living. It was tough to work with Lindsey at that point. He was just a pain in the ass.

30 Days Out: Do you think you’ll write another book, maybe about Tusk and beyond?

Caillat: You’re the fourth guy to ask me that just today! I have all the information … I went through the tape vaults, all the scans of all the track sheets, instrumentation, date they were recorded. I’ve got all that … I was ready to go, ready to write a Tusk book. In fact, I got about a quarter of the way through. But I stopped because I’m not sure there’s a market for it. This book has only had modest success … for us to get another book out it’s gonna take somebody to come in and say we can do better with a second book. Rumours is a pleasant story, it has a happy ending. I don’t think books about Tusk and Mirage are gonna have happy endings.

30 Days Out: Tell us a little about working with John McVie.

Caillat: It’s weird, John was kind of like Jekyll and Hyde, he was the greatest guy in the world. So soft spoken, then all of a sudden he’d turn on you. Mostly he’d do that when he was drinking, he was a closet drinker. Ninety percent of the time he was just great. Great bass player. He was always complaining I never had the bass loud enough. He made me very conscious of the bass, so I’d leave it up in the mix. One time Gary Katz, Steely Dan’s producer, came in and said you have the best bass sound – how do you do it? I told him, bitching! Have your bass player complain to you all the time!

30 Days Out: What about Stevie Nicks?

Caillat: Back then she was just the cutest little hippie chick. Adorable! She was funny, she had a cute giggle. She loved music, she only knew about three chords on the piano but she could make about 30 songs out of them. Her quirky side was she was always thinking about herself. I learned not to ask how she was doing that day. You’d spend 10 minutes just listening to her talk about herself.

Caillat: I always thought it was amazing, Lindsey and Stevie could never pass a mirror without looking at themselves. That’s just the kind of people they are. They are the kind of people who see a stage and want to be up there. They want the limelight. It’s kind of a double-edged sword … I’ve seen this sweet picture of Lindsey, taken right before Rumours, he’s sitting on the floor in an airport playing guitar. That guy’s gone. As they grew, as the Tusk album got really difficult for me, everybody became an asshole, really decadent, rather full of themselves. Not saying that’s a bad thing, it’s natural. But it wasn’t pleasant.

30 Days Out: How did it end with you and Fleetwood Mac?

Caillat: I had done Mirage (1982) and the live album, and they were gonna do Tango In The Night (1987). It was taking about a year to do and I just said, you know I’m gonna bow out this time. It ended great. I’m still friends with them, I think.

30 Days Out: So what’s next for you?

Caillat: I am starting a new label, Sleeping Giant records. Gonna be working with new artists, our main thrust will be artist development. And I’m going to continue working with my daughter Colbie. I can take no credit for her, she was born with this perfect voice and she loves to sing. She’s the nicest person in the world, she’d rather roll on the floor with the dogs and do just about anything else. And right now I’m working on on Spanish, Japanese and Portugese translations of Making Rumours. The audio book comes out in April, paperback comes out in April too. And I’m going to keep producing, all the time. Making the best music I can.

[redtulip]

I'm really disappointed he doesn't think there is a market for a book about Tusk, I think it would be much more interesting than Rumours, actually.

[michelej1]

And marketing wise, I think you could push the book the same way you would a book about recording Rumours. The same people are involved. As Ken said, his book doesn't focus on what went on outside of the studio romantically anyway. So, soap opera wise, a book on the Rumours recording is not going to contain more gossip than a book on the Tusk recording would. If that what casual fans would be looking for in a read.

It is a shame that 33 1/3 didn't turn out better. So much potential material.

Michele

[jellyman10]

Originally Posted by michelej1

It is a shame that 33 1/3 didn't turn out better. So much potential material.

Could not agree more. I don't mind narcissism per se in a writer, but that guy was an empty vessel. Furthermore, he's probably spavined the market for any further books for a good while to come.

[WildHearted]

I learned not to ask how she was doing that day. You’d spend 10 minutes just listening to her talk about herself.

Sounds about right.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by redtulip

I'm really disappointed he doesn't think there is a market for a book about Tusk, I think it would be much more interesting than Rumours, actually.

Agreed. Tusk is when it really got interesting both musically and personally. But like Ken said, I think his Rumours book has sold pretty sparingly, there would be zero market for a Tusk book other than us handful of hardcore fans, which unfortunately are shrinking every year.

Something else I found interesting about this interview is that Ken still considers the band to be his friends, even though they've frozen him out, and he has publicly aired their dirty laundry repeatedly (he's been especially harsh on Lindsey).

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Agreed. Tusk is when it really got interesting both musically and personally. But like Ken said, I think his Rumours book has sold pretty sparingly, there would be zero market for a Tusk book other than us handful of hardcore fans, which unfortunately are shrinking every year.

Something else I found interesting about this interview is that Ken still considers the band to be his friends, even though they've frozen him out, and he has publicly aired their dirty laundry repeatedly (he's been especially harsh on Lindsey).

I don't know, personally I think it's healthy to hear a side of reality that hasn't been sanitized by the spin-doctors of the various band members. Fame does really unattractive things to people and our beloved band members are not immune. I tend to think he's right about them-- all of them-- being a-holes as they got big and rich and famous. I remember Oprah talking about the stages she went through as she got more and more famous and wealthy....... they all really do lose their sense of what we all would call "reality" because their daily reality is soooooo different. I love Stevie to death but I don't believe she has much of a clue about every day real life of non-famous people at all. Lindsey now with kids has to be confronted with 'real life' problems, not just rock star problems... but... these people do not live a daily life or have the daily responsibilities that any of us do nor have they for a long, long time. Doesn't make them bad people, just different. I find it weirdly healthy to hear some of the true dirt sometimes. But that's just me.

[seekerj]

Now that I finished the book finally, I'm wondering about Silver Springs and if the book might explain why there are two mixes of Silver Springs.

To my ears, the choruses on the two mixes sound completely different. I actually prefer the single mix because the harmonies are just so great; it's harder to hear on the other mix with the lead vocal's being so much more prominent.

Ken talks about mixing the song in one studio when they mixed the Go Your Own Way single. Then later, he talks about mixing Silver Springs again in another studio when they were mixing the whole album. He specifically mentions that the second time, the background vocals on the tag were worked on.

Is that why the version on the Rumours reissue (and on Crystal Visions) is different than the 45 single as far as the background vocals? When the reissue first came out, for some reason, I thought they remixed it recently specifically for the reissue. But maybe that mix is actually from 1977? But then again, the DVD-Audio and "The Chain" boxset have the 45 single mix, which would seem weird if the "album mix" was available, why would they go with the "single" mix on those?

I would just like to know if the mix on the reissue is old or "new".

Is Ken still hanging out here? I hope he reads this and can provide an answer!

[redtulip]

Originally Posted by seekerj

Now that I finished the book finally, I'm wondering about Silver Springs and if the book might explain why there are two mixes of Silver Springs.

To my ears, the choruses on the two mixes sound completely different. I actually prefer the single mix because the harmonies are just so great; it's harder to hear on the other mix with the lead vocal's being so much more prominent.

Ken talks about mixing the song in one studio when they mixed the Go Your Own Way single. Then later, he talks about mixing Silver Springs again in another studio when they were mixing the whole album. He specifically mentions that the second time, the background vocals on the tag were worked on.

Is that why the version on the Rumours reissue (and on Crystal Visions) is different than the 45 single as far as the background vocals? When the reissue first came out, for some reason, I thought they remixed it recently specifically for the reissue. But maybe that mix is actually from 1977? But then again, the DVD-Audio and "The Chain" boxset have the 45 single mix, which would seem weird if the "album mix" was available, why would they go with the "single" mix on those?

I would just like to know if the mix on the reissue is old or "new".

Is Ken still hanging out here? I hope he reads this and can provide an answer!

If you are on facebook, he's active on there and you could probably ask him there if he doesn't respond here.

[michelej1]

The Man Who Recorded Fleetwood Mac Writes A Tell-All
Stories, truths, and rumors about Rumours from Ken Caillat
Posted on 5/24/2013 6:42:00 PM by Sonya Singh, Los Angeles Magazine

http://www.lamag.com/laculture/cultu...tes-a-tell-all

Thirty-seven years ago, a promising British-American band convened at the Record Plant in Sausalito, California to create their second album. The result of these efforts was Rumours, an LP that would catapult Fleetwood Mac to fame, win Album of the Year at the 1977 Grammys, and nearly tear them apart. Through every studio outburst, every late night jam, and every break-up—the marriage of band members John and Christine McVie, the partnership of Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Knicks, and Mick Fleetwood’s marriage—the group’s audio engineers turned co-producers, Richard Dashut and Ken Caillat, watched from behind the studio glass along with Caillat’s dog, Scooter. Caillat released his memoir about the experience, Making Rumours, last year, just before the band announced an expanded reissue of the album and their 2013 tour, which hits the Hollywood Bowl tomorrow.

“Rumours was such a remarkable event that I stumbled into, and I wanted to share that with people,” says Caillat as we sit in a recording space at the Village Studios. “The book is really just a story of a boy and his dog. It just happens to be set into a recording studio. All the crying, the fights—I had no idea what Scooter and I were walking into.”

Rumours has sold more than 40 millions copies sold worldwide and earned spots on dozens of top-100 lists, but something sets it apart from the other 99 classic albums on those lists.

“Most of the crew involved are asked about it even today. It’s like we were all survivors of a plane crash, bonded by it,” Caillat explains. “I have a friend who says, ‘Ken, it was over 30 years ago. Why don’t you let it go?’ Not me. Every time I’m introduced to somebody, it’s ‘This is the guy who did Rumours.’ I thought, mistakenly enough, that if I wrote about it, I could stop talking about it.”

Caillat doesn’t hold back. He writes about the time an enraged Buckingham nearly strangling him, about the drugs in the studio, and about things he may have otherwise left unsaid around his daughter, Grammy-winner Colbie Caillat. His aim, though, was never to scandalize.

“The original publisher wanted shock and awe. They wanted a tell-all,” says Caillat. “If John was drinking and I wrote that he walked into the room, they sent me a rewrite saying John ‘staggered’ into the room. I said no. I do feel bad about some of the stories I told about Lindsey, but I made a vow when I wrote the book that I was not going to hold secrets back or speculate on anything that didn’t happen in front of me. I tattle on me as much as anybody else.”

He also recounts, with amazing clarity, the haunting quality of a perfect Stevie Nicks vocal, the genius of Lindsay Buckingham’s guitar style, the beauty of hearing Christine McVie alone at her piano, the ease with which John McVie wrote an iconic bass riff, and the antics of the group’s fatherly leader, Mick Fleetwood.

The qualities that made the album a hit in 1977 are striking a chord with millenials, who have latched onto Fleetwood Mac and particularly its magnum opus. Just as The Strokes and The Libertines pointed young listeners toward foundational punk-rock pioneers, today’s hook-heavy guitar groups may be responsible for Fleetwood’s spike in popularity.

“I have to think it’s the words,” Caillat conjectures. With songs that were written in the studio, Rumours feels like a diary of its own recording process. “When Lindsey sang, ‘You can go your own way,’ he was singing that to Stevie. Even though they agreed to put aside their breakup for the sake of the record, it wasn’t as easily done. Every day, we played those songs and poured salt in those wounds. That pain was completely painted into the layers of sound we worked so hard to create.”

After the success of Rumours, Caillat found himself in Fleetwood Mac’s shrinking inner circle. He went on to produce their next two albums, live shows, and a box set, but for all his history with the band, you won’t find him at the Bowl tomorrow. Even he hadn’t seen the band perform countless times over the years, Fleetwood Mac’s enduring fame means his chances of getting tickets are the same as anyone else's. (He was once the last person waiting outside to see them after a show.) It may not be fair, but he doesn’t mind.

“Lord knows they deserve the fame and accolades they’ve got and I’m happy to just have been part of it," Caillat smiles. He also got the ultimate book review. "Christine did call me after the book came out to tell me she loved it. She said she loved how I portrayed her and hoped that’s the way she’ll be remembered.”

Caillat is working on a book about recording Tusk, the follow up to Rumours. Fleetwood Mac plays the Hollywood Bowl tomorrow and the Anaheim Honda Center on May 28. They will return to play Staples Center in July.

[MacShadowsBall]

Originally Posted by michelej1

He also recounts, with amazing clarity, the haunting quality of a perfect Stevie Nicks vocal, the genius of Lindsay Buckingham’s guitar style, the beauty of hearing Christine McVie alone at her piano, the ease with which John McVie wrote an iconic bass riff, and the antics of the group’s fatherly leader, Mick Fleetwood.

Perfectly amazing description of Fleetwood Mac!

[michelej1]

Salon by Joe Daly, 6-3-2013
http://www.salon.com/2013/06/03/true...ner/singleton/

This article originally appeared on The Weeklings.

A TEAM OF GRIZZLED TINSELTOWN SCRIPT WRITERS could not have conceived a story so fantastic. In fact, when one hears the setup, the typical reaction involves a head shake and the words, “No way.”

In 1976, Fleetwood Mac were poised for an ignominious demise. Their latest album—the first to feature the brilliant but mercurial duo of Lindsey Buckingham and vocalist Stevie Nicks—had failed to gain much traction out of the gate, and as the band prepared to sequester themselves in a studio in Saulsalito to record the follow-up, a cavalcade of spectacular disasters gathered on the horizon.

First, there was the in-fighting. Although Stevie and Lindsey were a couple when they had joined the band a year prior, by the Bicentennial, a bitter split saw the former lovers reduced to incessant volleys of petty and venomous attacks on one another. Meanwhile, Christine and John McVie were in the process of divorcing and drummer Mick Fleetwood, unbeknownst to the others, stood on verge of losing his own marriage when his wife back in England approached her tolerance for playing second fiddle to his band.

On top of these combustible relations, Fleetwood Mac were developing an increasing affinity for drugs and alcohol, adding kerosene to a fire that had already caught far too much kindle to be controlled. Infighting, jealousy and occasionally violent outbursts became the norm at a time when the band were preparing to essentially hole up together for an entire year, writing songs, recording an album and beginning the supporting tour.

Adding even more pressure, and what they could not see at the time, was that their previous record would eventually take off while they were recording the new album. While admittedly welcome news by most estimations, the development also invested their new album with heightened anxiety as the expectations of their record company and a growing fan base reached critical mass.

The odds on the band even surviving had reached lottery-sized proportions, and the chances of them releasing an album worth more than the vinyl on which it was stamped were even longer.

Asked to conduct this symphony of dysfunction was a twenty-nine year-old kid named Ken Caillat, an up-and-coming Hollywood recording engineer who had never even heard of Fleetwood Mac until he was first invited to work with them that year.



Easygoing, friendly and occasionally mischievous, Ken proved the perfect guy for the job, somehow navigating the acidic relations between the musicians and not simply recording their songs, but coaxing from each of them their most brilliant output to date, and arguably, ever. Ken would eventually be named the album’s producer, and that album would become Rumours, the Grammy Award-winning sonic masterpiece that has sold over forty million copies worldwide.

Published in 2012, Making Rumours sees Ken (whose daughter is Grammy-winning singer/songwriter Colbie Caillat), stepping out of the control room to tell the story behind that record and in doing so, lifting the lid on one of the most compelling and improbable stories in classic rock.

I sat down with Ken to discuss his book and some of the stories behind the stories.

Joe Daly: Rumours has been out for thirty-five years. What inspired you to finally tell the story behind it?

Ken Caillat: Obviously a thing like this takes a bit of time and effort, which I didn’t have. Plus I think I had so many stories in my head, and people were always asking me to tell them, or introducing me like, “This is Ken. Hey, tell them the story about…” I’d say, “Wait, how do you know that?” They’d say, “Oh, you told me about that a long time ago.” (laughing) Somebody finally suggested I write a book about it and I thought, “No, I’m not going to do a book.” They said, “What if we get an agent for you?” and I just said, “I’m not going to do any work on this. Nobody’s going to be interested in that.” So this one person found an agent and the agent flew out from New York and said he wanted to do the book, so there you go.

But before that happened, I started to think that maybe it was a good idea, because there were a lot of stories and I didn’t want to forget them and at some point I would. I experienced something very unique that very few people do, and I wanted people to know exactly how a big-time record is done by a big-time band. It’s not like you see on the TV; it’s a hell of a lot of hard work and a lot of personalities going in there. It’s like creating Egyptian cotton, with like a thousand-count thread, you know? All these fibers, these sounds, are woven together to make this intricate fabric of sound, and that’s what we did. Back then was when we had the time to do it; we weren’t rushed.

Also, part of the story is that back then we only had twenty-four tracks. Today you can have unlimited tracks with ProTools. I tell people, “If you want to make a big-time record, just lock off the ProTools rig to twenty-four tracks and you’re going to find out real quick that you have to start making decisions, and everybody in the room, and in the band, is going to have to get involved in the decisions.” You’re always combining with twenty-four tracks; you’re always making the final acoustic picture.

You reveal throughout the story that each song is packed with layers of ornamentations and melodies. Was there ever a concern that these songs might be fairly difficult to play live?

No. I mean, we weren’t like the Beatles, who had these crazy horns. Basically we had a drum track, we had a bass track, we had a couple guitar tracks and we had a keyboard track or two. Maybe we had a Rhodes and an organ. We had Stevie’s vocal, Lindsey’s vocal, Christine’s vocal and maybe some background vocals. But all that was attainable and it really wasn’t an issue.

The level of detail is at times staggering. For example, you’ll talk about recording a track and mention that you moved it from the right to the left speaker. How in the world did you recall these decisions with such specificity?

Well, I did it like a thousand times, you know? And I had all the track sheets, so I could look at the track sheets and tell you what I would have done. So if I had the guitar on the left I knew I had to have something opposite to that. I was very much into hard panning. I like to make the mixes as wide as they could be, so I might have one guitar on full left and another guitar on full right, so they’re opposing each other, or an opposing keyboard on the opposite side of the guitar. Like the Beatles did—big, wide mixes.

What was the greater challenge at the time—resolving the technical issues or navigating the personalities of the musicians?

Oh, the personalities. The technical stuff, that was a luxury. For the technical stuff they gave me all the time in the world to make whatever I wanted and to experiment and to try to make the best out of the music. But the whole breakup of all the band members, and the crying and swearing and, “I hate you,” and “How could you cheat on me?” That was tough. I’m not really good with words in situations like that. I didn’t put my arm around them and say, “Oh, you’ll be alright.” I’d probably say to Stevie and Linsdey, “Hey you guys, why don’t you take that outside? Why don’t you go and have a coffee somewhere and let the other band members who aren’t fighting work on the song.” I would be trying to avoid the conflict to get them out of the room.

Every time I talk about this book, I recall more information about what happened. Their previous album (known as “the White Album”), was just starting to climb the charts when we started making Rumours. It didn’t top the charts until the ninth month that we were recording Rumours. That never happens now. Now the record comes out and it’s milked to death and then they rush you into the studio because they don’t want the band to be forgotten. But you’re never already working on a hit record when you’re (charting).

When you finally sat down to write this story, did you have any reservations about revealing some of these less-than-flattering behaviors of the band?

I really didn’t. The thing was, it’s a great album and I wanted people to know how a real record is made. The fact is, they’re all geniuses and I tried to compliment them as much as possible. I believe I tattled as much on me as anybody else. Basically my rule was that I wasn’t going to talk about it if it didn’t happen in front of me and it didn’t affect the session. So what I heard they might have been doing in a hotel room at night wasn’t my call, but what happened in front of me, that was my call, or if it affected the session, that was my call.

What’s your relationship with the musicians today?

Well, we’ve all moved apart, so I don’t have emails on Stevie and Lindsey, but I do talk with Mick and John every once in awhile. Christine called me a few months ago and thanked me for writing the book. She said she loved how I portrayed her and she said, “That’s how I want to be remembered.” She really enjoyed the book and she had forgotten all those details about how hard we all worked and she said, “Quite honestly Ken, you’ve kind of put the passion back in music for me.” So that was great.

I’ve talked to Mick and talked to John, and John still sends me congratulations on Colbie and so does Mick, but we don’t talk that much.

Other members of the band, who have enjoyed variously-successful solo careers, tend to outshine Mick’s musicianship, yet you point out that even in 1976, he was a richly-talented timekeeper. What do you think was his greatest strength as a musician?

I don’t know how to describe it, but he’s just an amazing drummer. He’s got feel. Most other drummers sit there and they can be really good—the pros can be really good—but he has this feel. He was a little bit behind the beat, but it was just enough that it felt aggressive and laid-back at the same time. Really powerful toms, great beat…I mean, maybe I’m using too many words to describe the fact that he’s just an amazing drummer.

One of the more delicate story lines in the book pertains to you and the two relationships you had at the time, which had little bit of overlap. Were you reluctant to bring that story public?

Nah. Not really. I mean, I talked to both of the women and asked if it was OK and I think they were kind of flattered to be heroines in the book. But I was concerned about my daughters. How would they feel about me sleeping around, and blah, blah blah? Then I thought that I’d like to know the intimate details about my dad. What were my mom and dad like when they were growing up in their twenties? What did they do? It’s probably good to let (my daughters) know that I’m not a saint or an old fuddy duddy, you know?

I just said, “The rules are that if I’m going to tell this story, I’m going to tell the truth as best as I can.”

What was the reaction from your daughters? Were they supportive?

(laughing) Yeah, when they finally read it! My one daughter just said, I think six months ago, “I finally finished the book, Dad, and I loved it.” But I remember Colbie was on a plane with somebody else and she was reading it, and the other person was reading it too, and they were almost on the same page and the other person goes, “Your dad did coke!” I feel good though. My mom read it. She said, “I didn’t know you were using drugs. I knew you did marijuana, I didn’t know you did drugs.” She didn’t like the crabs thing. She said, “I didn’t like the crabs story!”

That freaked me out, too.

Well I didn’t like it either, but I thought it really showed the depth of what happens. I mean, it was crazy. Coming home in the morning and there’s three women in your bed. It wasn’t even like, “What are you guys doing here?” It was more like, “Move over,” you know?

When Colbie decided on a career in music, did you have any professional advice that you felt you needed to pass on to her?

Yeah, you’re gonna be surprised what it is. She hadn’t decided what she was doing. She was just singing all the time and her older sister was going to college and she wanted to be an actress, so we were paying for head shots and acting classes and all this other stuff. So Colbie was just singing and I said, “Well if that’s what you want to do, I think we should get you some voice lessons. I want to make sure you learn how to breathe properly and how to use your diaphragm properly so you don’t damage your voice.”

A while later, I came home and I said, “I was just thinking that if you want to sing, Colbie, what are you going to sing? You don’t play an instrument, you don’t write any songs, so that means we’re going to have to buy somebody else’s songs. That’s going to be problematic because when you’re buying songs, the best songs are kept for hit artists and you won’t be a hit artist, so it will be hard to get you a good song. So the only choice for you, if you want to be a singer, is to take some instrument lessons and learn how to play and I promise you, the moment that you put your hands on an instrument and create a chord, your voice will respond with a corresponding note and word and your heart will fill out the rest of the words and you’ll write a song. I’ll back it up with a hundred dollars every time you write a song.”

I taught her what modern song structure is, where the verse tells a story and the chorus is the payoff of the story and the bridge is the breathing space between. She took her first guitar lesson and came home and wrote her first song. So I was right. And surprisingly enough, the big payoff for her dad was that she was doing an interview one day and I was there in the room, and she said, “My dad was right,” and she told them exactly what I said. How often does that happen where the parent got it right? (laughing)

Is there anything you miss about working in the Seventies? Anything about the industry or your specific job?

Well, yeah. In the Seventies there were a lot less cars on the streets and it was a great time for musicians. You could go down to the Troubadour and you’d see Linda Ronstadt sitting there or Glenn Fry of the Eagles hanging out. It was very open. It was definitely a period of innocence, I guess.

And the record companies had big budgets. We had an unlimited amount of time to make Rumours. I saw Stevie a couple years ago, right before she was about to start working on that album, and she said, “Ken, can you believe that I have thirteen days in the studio? That’s all my budget allows.” We had 365. Well, that’s all we used, because we didn’t have any limitations at all.

In addition to the critical acclaim it has received, your book has inspired a renewed interest in an album that has already sold forty-million copies. Did the experience of writing this book fulfill your expectations?

The bottom line is that they’re a great band, but we did the work and that’s the important thing. We all have flaws and we all have to figure out how to deal with them and we all go in and try to paint our canvas the best way we can and hopefully nobody finds out that we really don’t know what we’re talking about. We’re doing the best we can. That’s what I wanted to tell people. This is the great American story.

These guys persevered through breaking up—all of them—and people don’t get the fact that the songs were about the breakups, and just because they were able to bite their lips and deal with that, they still had to listen to those songs and those lyrics for the next year while we were making the record. Like “Go Your Own Way,” it still makes Lindsey mad, I’m sure now. And it still hurts Stevie, but they still have to sing it, and I think it’s pretty good that they were still willing to put all their other trouble aside and say, “This is our job, we’re musicians, let’s put everything else aside and make this record, because that’s our job. It’ll be better for us if we can do it.” And I want people to know that.

Ken, thanks so much for your time.

Thanks, Joe.