After 12 plus years. Excited to hear Christine McVie

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

The entire band is walking on eggshells not to piss off Stevie. Mick and John could never be and would never be "reduced" to guests. They made a point NOT to call it Fleetwood Mac. By doing so gave both Lindsey and Christine more freedom than ever. John just recovered from cancer treatment. I am sure he would prefer to rest before a huge world tour. I suspect both John and Mick prefer to give both Stevie and Christine and Lindsey their space. If they had joined to duo for the entire project it would have to be called Fleetwood Mac.
Don't be a hater because Christine and Lindsey love making new music together with any member of Fleetwood Mac that cares to join them. Stevie is out recycling old songs that sound much better in their original form. All the beautiful worlds was perfect and re-recording it just took all the magic from the original song IMHO.

I'm really ok that Stevie isn't on the new album. This has nothing to do with her. And I have no idea how the band is walking on eggshells in order to not piss Stevie off LOL. But I do feel like there's some revisionism going on here. This WAS a Fleetwood Mac album, and songs were recorded by the four band members while they were waiting on Stevie to participate. You know, like they did with Tango in the Night. It was only when they finally accepted she wasn't going to join them that they changed it from a FM album to a 'duets' album, with songs performed by the four members. You know, like Say You Will, an album YOU might say was by Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks, with guest spots by John McVie and Mick Fleetwood, but what I call Fleetwood Mac LOL. Remember, they changed the name from FM to Buckingham/McVie only afterwards.

But like I said, if Christine and Lindsey actually did record some songs without John and Mick, then my fears are unfounded, and I genuinely hope that's the case. So people don't need to assume I secretly hate FM because Stevie isn't on the album. I just want to make sure John and Mick didn't get screwed over in any way.

[elle]

Originally Posted by bwboy

You know, like Say You Will, an album YOU might say was by Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks, with guest spots by John McVie and Mick Fleetwood, but what I call Fleetwood Mac LOL. Remember, they changed the name from FM to Buckingham/McVie only afterwards.

if you look on the Say You Will cover you will see that band was called Fleetwood Mac, not Buckingham Nicks.

if you read anything about the new album, you would have known by now that album is not released under Fleetwood Mac name, but Buckingham Mcvie. do i think it should have been released as Fleetwood Mac? absolutely! do you?

i'm pretty sure though that you have me blocked though, so i really should not be wasting my breath on this ridiculous argument.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by elle

ok you succeeded to make me respond. yes - you seem to be trying to tick people off, otherwise you would actually read their responses instead of insisting on re-asking the same question.

everyone is telling you - you are wrong, so why do you not answer to what they are saying, but instead keep restating your original claim?

Sorry, but I don't consider people's opinions on this board as fact, just as, understandably, you don't consider my opinion as fact. Or do you have a link to a specific interview with John, Christine, Mick, or Lindsey in which they say John and Mick only played on a few songs on the new album? Or that they don't want to tour with Chris and Lindsey?

Now I have a question for you, and anyone else, because I am truly curious: IF it turned out that John and Mick performed on every song on the new album, are you saying it really wouldn't bother you that Christine and Lindsey would tour without them in order to not have to share the profits? Yes, I understand they will be playing smaller venues, etc. But all that means is that they would get a smaller return, they would all still make money. If that doesn't bother you, fine. It makes me very sad, IF that's the case.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by bwboy

I'm really ok that Stevie isn't on the new album. This has nothing to do with her. And I have no idea how the band is walking on eggshells in order to not piss Stevie off LOL. But I do feel like there's some revisionism going on here. This WAS a Fleetwood Mac album, and songs were recorded by the four band members while they were waiting on Stevie to participate. You know, like they did with Tango in the Night. It was only when they finally accepted she wasn't going to join them that they changed it from a FM album to a 'duets' album, with songs performed by the four members. You know, like Say You Will, an album YOU might say was by Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks, with guest spots by John McVie and Mick Fleetwood, but what I call Fleetwood Mac LOL. Remember, they changed the name from FM to Buckingham/McVie only afterwards.

But like I said, if Christine and Lindsey actually did record some songs without John and Mick, then my fears are unfounded, and I genuinely hope that's the case. So people don't need to assume I secretly hate FM because Stevie isn't on the album. I just want to make sure John and Mick didn't get screwed over in any way.

You just made my point. You tried to counter but made my point even stronger
Yes, they decided not to call it Fleetwood Mac AFTER Stevie refused to join them. I don't see any revisionist history in that. Ask yourself why? They have every right to do so but are so careful not to annoy Stevie who for whatever reason agreed to tour relentlessly with the band but refuses to record with them. Its out of respect for those who have touchy feelings. After all its Stevie's feelings why she refuses to join them in the studio. Fleetwood Mac has always recorded albums with different members. Time was without Lindsey or Stevie but it was still Fleetwood Mac. Behind the Mask was without Lindsey but it was still Fleetwood mac. Say you will was without Christine but it was still Fleetwood Mac. Here is the difference!!!! Pay attention now In those instances the band members LEFT. They did not tour or have a one foot in and out foot out philosophy. Stevie wants to tour but does not want to make new music. So this is why they are bending over backwards and YES walking on eggshells to not call it Fleetwood Mac. I think its wrong but I totally understand why and I think you do too.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by elle

if you look on the Say You Will cover you will see that band was called Fleetwood Mac, not Buckingham Nicks.

if you read anything about the new album, you would have known by now that album is not released under Fleetwood Mac name, but Buckingham Mcvie. do i think it should have been released as Fleetwood Mac? absolutely! do you?

i'm pretty sure though that you have me blocked though, so i really should not be wasting my breath on this ridiculous argument.

Elle, I have never blocked you. Also, I thought we were having a sincere discussion, not an argument. I believe you really feel the way you do, but I'm kind of feeling like you think I'm trying to bait you or something. That's truly not my intent. Maybe I'm not expressing myself well, so I apologize. When I mentioned Say You Will, my point was that if Stevie and Lindsey had recorded Say You Will as a 'duets' album, with John and Mick on every track, but then they went on tour and left them out, I would have felt just as sorry and betrayed for them then as I am now. That was my point there. And I freely admit that, like everyone here, I'm speculating as to motives etc. When the album is released, I could be shown I'm wrong, and I will be relieved to know that my favorite band isn't another victim of greed.

[bombaysaffires]

I think your initial premise that this was a FM album and the band was waiting for Stevie and when she didn't participate they just rebranded it as a BuckVie album is a bit flawed.

What we know is that Chris and Lindsey worked on a bunch of material together. What we know is that there was a HOPE that that material-- which was NOT an album, it was just a bunch of SONGS-- would BECOME a FM album once Stevie got involved, brought her OWN songs to the mix, and EVERYONE participated and contributed in some form or fashion to ALL the material.

The band decided instead to go on the road. The material Lindsey and Christine worked on got shelved. They toured a long time. The tour ended. Stevie had plans to pick up where she'd left off with her solo stuff and go out and promote 24k and whatever else. The other 4 thought ok, maybe we'll wait. Stevie made it very clear she has ZERO interest in recording with the band (or just with Lindsey, as some think). Off she goes on her tour.

Now, Lindsey and Christine have this pile of material they've worked on, some of which they'd recorded involving John and Mick. That material has lain around getting dusty for like 3 years or more due to the touring etc. They determine they still want to turn it all into something. Stevie says, I'm not recording. So the other two decide, well, let's keep going with what we started with and turn it INTO an album -- adding more to the songs, adding more songs to get an album's worth, etc. Now they are going to release it and, like Stevie, they want to promote the album so they are going to do some shows.

It never WAS a FM album; it was HOPED TO BE a Mac album...it was STEVIE who determined that it would not be a FM album. The others have accepted that and rather than let the music go unheard, to work on it until it's in good releasable form as a duo album. While Mick and John played on many of the tracks when it was intended to become a FM album, they have (to me) clearly decided not to create friction and create any appearance of it being FM minus Stevie, and are choosing not to tour with the other two-- because it's a DUETs album. No one cut anyone out.

Had Stevie CHOSEN to participate, it would THEN have become a FM album.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Not calling the project Fleetwood Mac and touring without Mick and John might simply be a matter of Mick and John not wanting to put up their own money into recording or touring since it's not going to be the full classic lineup.

good point. making FM albums everyone contributes to the upfront costs of recording and then also rehearsing and touring. They may well have simply decided it financially didn't make sense for them to bankroll a project to promote Lindsey and Christine. And not in a bitchy way, just smart business.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

I think your initial premise that this was a FM album and the band was waiting for Stevie and when she didn't participate they just rebranded it as a BuckVie album is a bit flawed.

What we know is that Chris and Lindsey worked on a bunch of material together. What we know is that there was a HOPE that that material-- which was NOT an album, it was just a bunch of SONGS-- would BECOME a FM album once Stevie got involved, brought her OWN songs to the mix, and EVERYONE participated and contributed in some form or fashion to ALL the material.

The band decided instead to go on the road. The material Lindsey and Christine worked on got shelved. They toured a long time. The tour ended. Stevie had plans to pick up where she'd left off with her solo stuff and go out and promote 24k and whatever else. The other 4 thought ok, maybe we'll wait. Stevie made it very clear she has ZERO interest in recording with the band (or just with Lindsey, as some think). Off she goes on her tour.

Now, Lindsey and Christine have this pile of material they've worked on, some of which they'd recorded involving John and Mick. That material has lain around getting dusty for like 3 years or more due to the touring etc. They determine they still want to turn it all into something. Stevie says, I'm not recording. So the other two decide, well, let's keep going with what we started with and turn it INTO an album -- adding more to the songs, adding more songs to get an album's worth, etc. Now they are going to release it and, like Stevie, they want to promote the album so they are going to do some shows.

It never WAS a FM album; it was HOPED TO BE a Mac album...it was STEVIE who determined that it would not be a FM album. The others have accepted that and rather than let the music go unheard, to work on it until it's in good releasable form as a duo album. While Mick and John played on many of the tracks when it was intended to become a FM album, they have (to me) clearly decided not to create friction and create any appearance of it being FM minus Stevie, and are choosing not to tour with the other two-- because it's a DUETs album. No one cut anyone out.

Had Stevie CHOSEN to participate, it would THEN have become a FM album.

I agree with absolutely everything you just said, except for possibly your last full paragraph. The only part we differ on, is we don't know for sure that it was John and Mick's decision not to tour. If you're right and it truly was their decision to not tour, then I would be joyful and relieved! But I have a hard time believing they are so afraid of Stevie's reaction to the tour that they willingly gave up income doing something they love. You are speculating on their motives, just like I am, but none of us know why they're not touring together... yet. If John and Mick really did only 'guest' on a few songs, then that would add even more credence to your theory. I mean, why tour for an album you only guested on. But if they played on every song on the album, then that would add credence to my theory.

[elle]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

We are getting a small intimate tour with two of the main writers w/ new material. And.... they are co-writes.

and tour out of love for showcasing their new music.

if their tickets remain at the prices that WA show is, in venues that size, they will be losing money on this tour. so the only reason for touring is for the love of what they do.

Prince toured small venues like this, and his prices were bouncing all over the place, with being practically free sometimes, but i believe most times they ranged from $200-250 for every seat in the venue through $500+ for the first 5-10 rows.

[bwboy]

How do we know they would be losing money? Smaller profits, sure. But losing money? I imagine the band splits the money 5 ways, generally, and I'm sure Chris and Lindsey would get a bigger portion. So let's say they get 35% each, and John and Mick get 10% each, and the other 10% goes to everything else. Obviously I made those numbers up, but the point is, they can make money. Unless they are bound and determined to take individual private jets, then yes, they will lose money, but surely they can downsize the lighting and staging etc enough in order to make money.

And I've never heard of a band or musical act touring with the knowledge they would lose money. Interesting!

[elle]

Originally Posted by bwboy

How do we know they would be losing money? Smaller profits, sure. But losing money?

the word on the street is that every Lindsey solo tour except his last one (One Man Show, in 2012) was money-losing proposition for him. the word on the street is also that he uses money he makes with Fleetwood Mac to finance his solo projects.

but you are right, i don't know that for sure.

[dreamsunwind]

I don't get why this John/Mick thing is being overthought. At first I also was slightly disappointed that they wouldn't tour with them but then I realized it makes total sense because this isn't supposed to be a Fleetwood Mac project. It's something separate and they probably made that decision to do something different when it was obvious Stevie wasn't going to chip in. As far as I know from what I saw on Twitter way back, John and Mick contributed as a rhythm section in the studio anyways knowing that it would not be "Fleetwood Mac". Same as whenever band members contribute to any other project one of their bandmates is working on.

[elle]

Originally Posted by dreamsunwind

I don't get why this John/Mick thing is being overthought. At first I also was slightly disappointed that they wouldn't tour with them but then I realized it makes total sense because this isn't supposed to be a Fleetwood Mac project. It's something separate and they probably made that decision to do something different when it was obvious Stevie wasn't going to chip in. As far as I know from what I saw on Twitter way back, John and Mick contributed as a rhythm section in the studio anyways knowing that it would not be "Fleetwood Mac". Same as whenever band members contribute to any other project one of their bandmates is working on.

exactly!

mostly just one person who insists on some kind of devious plan being behind all this and wouldn't let go is overthinking the whole thing - instead of letting this to be a nice positive thread celebrating Christine and incredible chance we'll get to see her this year.

[Angel75]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

I think your initial premise that this was a FM album and the band was waiting for Stevie and when she didn't participate they just rebranded it as a BuckVie album is a bit flawed.

What we know is that Chris and Lindsey worked on a bunch of material together. What we know is that there was a HOPE that that material-- which was NOT an album, it was just a bunch of SONGS-- would BECOME a FM album once Stevie got involved, brought her OWN songs to the mix, and EVERYONE participated and contributed in some form or fashion to ALL the material.

The band decided instead to go on the road. The material Lindsey and Christine worked on got shelved. They toured a long time. The tour ended. Stevie had plans to pick up where she'd left off with her solo stuff and go out and promote 24k and whatever else. The other 4 thought ok, maybe we'll wait. Stevie made it very clear she has ZERO interest in recording with the band (or just with Lindsey, as some think). Off she goes on her tour.

Now, Lindsey and Christine have this pile of material they've worked on, some of which they'd recorded involving John and Mick. That material has lain around getting dusty for like 3 years or more due to the touring etc. They determine they still want to turn it all into something. Stevie says, I'm not recording. So the other two decide, well, let's keep going with what we started with and turn it INTO an album -- adding more to the songs, adding more songs to get an album's worth, etc. Now they are going to release it and, like Stevie, they want to promote the album so they are going to do some shows.

It never WAS a FM album; it was HOPED TO BE a Mac album...it was STEVIE who determined that it would not be a FM album. The others have accepted that and rather than let the music go unheard, to work on it until it's in good releasable form as a duo album. While Mick and John played on many of the tracks when it was intended to become a FM album, they have (to me) clearly decided not to create friction and create any appearance of it being FM minus Stevie, and are choosing not to tour with the other two-- because it's a DUETs album. No one cut anyone out.

Had Stevie CHOSEN to participate, it would THEN have become a FM album.

Well said!

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by elle

exactly!

mostly just one person who insists on some kind of devious plan being behind all this and wouldn't let go is overthinking the whole thing - instead of letting this to be a nice positive thread celebrating Christine and incredible chance we'll get to see her this year.

Devious?

Nope, just being realistic about another possibility. I could say it sounds like you think Christine and Lindsey can do no wrong, but that would be making a sweeping generalization about you. Kind of like what you just said about me. Just because you don't share my opinion doesn't make me devious. That would be like me saying you were being devious when you wrote a thread titled "Mick Fleetwood says new album without Stevie Nicks could win awards." What, you didn't mean anything by that? That could have been a nice positive thread celebrating the new album. But you had every right to say that. So please don't try to dismiss my opinion by saying it's part of a devious plan to cause dissension here when it's a actually a real question for me.