Brett Tuggle Dishes the details to Rolling Stone

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by Nicks Fan

Plus remember on 2011-2012 tour she played the Fox theatre in Detroit, the Seneca Falls casino in Niagara Falls and one of the casinos in either Norman or Thackerville OK.

There was also a random amphitheater in St Augustine Florida and maybe one at a zoo in Toledo on the IYD. And the Mahaffey Theater in Florida.

But it was Stevie's personal choice to play there, it wasn't booked on financial projections because if that was done, she would've done a ten show run at Dolphin Stadium, where she played in 2007... in the parking lot.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

You don't post with impartiality. Your displeasure for Lindsey is as striking as coyote piss.

Ladies and gentlemen, I do believe we have the Ledge quote of the year!!!

[michelej1]

I should say that talking about wanting to replace John McVie was unnecessary for the breach of contract lawsuit and it was hurtful. I don’t approve, just as I didn’t approve of him saying Christine was fragile. He was talking to them through the press for leverage. The lawsuit complaint was meant for the public, not the court and I don’t know if John cared, but if he did that stings.

I suppose all is fair in past love and present war when the McVies let Stevie and Mick do what they did.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by jmn3

Lindsey's contributions to Fleetwood Mac and the impact upon the band's success has nothing to do with his solo career…The members of Fleetwood Mac were not removed from Lindsey's solo orbit so the comparison is ridiculous.

It’s a totally valid comparison. It’s not as if he changed his approach to songwriting or production between Fleetwood Mac and solo, especially between TITN and OOTC. Those songs are so aesthetically similar that they’re interchangeable. Just as Fleetwood Mac benefited from his contributions, he benefited from their brand. Do you think Big Love would have gone to #5 if it had been released on a solo album? Is it really that different from Go Insane or Doing What I Can?

The fact is that the band lacked the same degree of success during the years he wasn't in it.

While SYW peaked higher on the charts, BTM sold more copies and had a Top 40 single, so that’s open for debate. OOTC tanked, Street Angel tanked, and Time tanked. See a pattern? I doubt a studio album with the five of them would have been much of a blip in the early-mid ‘90s. Fleetwood Mac in general was about as cool as a pocket protector before their version of Hell Freezes Over.

And for the love of God, Stevie only "sold out" 20k seats in 2017 because of The Pretenders. She was never selling out arenas on her own in 2017.

Even if only half the crowd was there for Stevie, that’s 10K. LBCM played to maybe 3K. So, given that she had sold tens of millions of albums on her own and was now able to do arena tours without the band, she was firmly in the driver’s seat.

Your ability to contort every single piece of data to fit some ridiculous anti-Lindsey, pro-Stevie position is really uncanny.

When I talk about charts, sales, etc., it’s not an endorsement or rejection of the art or artist, it’s in response to claims of this person or that person being responsible for their success or superstardom. Those are very separate things. Lindsey and/or Stevie being credited for Fleetwood Mac’s success and superstardom is just as nails on the chalkboard for me as “the REAL Fleetwood Mac was Peter Green’s Fleetwood Mac.”

Fleetwood Mac’s success was more about the freak show than the music. HAHTF benefited from Fake Mac scandal to become their first Top 40 album The white album’s sales spiked after it was announced the McVies were divorcing. Similarly, TITN sold more copies after Lindsey quit than before.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Convenient for you to leave out the points about Dave Grohl and NIN.

Because it was a red herring not worthy of a reply. Nobody is arguing that Lindsey’s not an amazing producer or rock legend.

You should take a look at the Billboard attendance for Stevie's 24 Tour. Sure, it's great she made a lot of money in ticket sales and sold out The Forum and MSG which Lindsey could not do on his own happily for you.
You'll notice a lot of 7k and 8k numbers in the data. They're not Streisand or Cher numbers. When she didn't have the Pretenders, she played small cities like Green Bay, Youngstown, and St. Charles.

I’m not interested in seeing the forest for the trees. It was still the biggest solo tour of her career.

When was the last time you saw Stevie solo? I went to plenty of Stevie shows in the 2000s where they were not even close to sold out. Two of them my friends walked into the theater when the show was still going on without tickets.

I’m not a Stevie solo fan. In fact, I’ve seen her only once solo, when Sheryl Crow was in the band. By contrast, I’ve seen Lindsey outside of Fleetwood Mac four times, the most of the lot.

You don't post with impartiality. Your displeasure for Lindsey is as striking as coyote piss.

Depends on the topic. For example, whenever someone tries to claim Lindsey was misogynistic or abusive towards Stevie, I call BS. She’s never claimed he did, and I have no doubt in her ability to throw him under the bus, so if it was remotely true, she would have shouted it from the mountain by now. Also, it doesn’t fit the pattern. She demonstrably didn’t need him after 1981 yet continued working with him.

[David]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

It’s not as if he changed his approach to songwriting or production between Fleetwood Mac and solo

Oh, it is as if he changed his approach to songwriting or production between Fleetwood Mac and solo — because he actually did that over and over again. He very deliberately used his solo albums the way Beethoven used his piano sonatas: to experiment. He always said he hoped that his solo albums would interest more people, but he also said that he wasn’t all that surprised that they didn’t. They never will. In fact, if they ever did, something really, really weird will have happened to the mass-market music-buying public — zombie apocalypse, perhaps.

Isn’t it beyond obvious, besides, that Lindsey isn’t the commercial power that Fleetwood Mac or Stevie Nicks is? Why is that continually articulated as if it were a novel observation? Is there a single Lindsey Buckingham fan here or anywhere else who wants to see him play Madison Square Garden? A few nights ago, I watched one of his concert Blu-rays from a few years ago. Imagine trying to put that show over in an arena. It would be like staging Ibsen at the Rose Bowl.

When I talk about charts, sales, etc., it’s not an endorsement or rejection of the art or artist, it’s in response to claims of this person or that person being responsible for their success or superstardom.

Then why do you keep engaging at that level? We’ve already made perfectly clear to everyone on the forum that commercial megastars like Rihanna and Eminem and Kanye and Lil Wayne and Nicki Minaj and Drake and Jay Z outsell and outplay the individual members of Fleetwood Mac. But can any of them sing “Buddy’s Song” properly?

[David]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I’m not a Stevie solo fan.

Esthetically speaking, that may be your problem right there.

[David]

How come by the time I get off work and start posting, everyone has gone to bed?

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by David

Is there a single Lindsey Buckingham fan here or anywhere else who wants to see him play Madison Square Garden?

I want to see him play MSG.

Still, I am very happy with his accomplishments. I don't see the Tik Tok video and think, "I wish Lindsey could even come close to that kind of success." I listen and remember what Christine said about how uneventful and monotonous Dreams sounded when it emerged from Sly Stone's bed, to be transformed by Lindsey.

It's not necessary for me to lament Lindsey's lack of solo success when I feel that he is responsible for so much of Fleetwood Mac's.

Furthermore, as mortified as I was when he opened for Tina Turner, I think I'd have to kill myself if he opened for Rod Stewart. I don't spend a lot of time wishing he had Stevie's record or ticket sales.

I do wish he had the power, but not the immorality, to get Stevie fired, however. I envy her that.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I want to see him play MSG.

Still, I am very happy with his accomplishments. I don't see the Tik Tok video and think, "I wish Lindsey could even come close to that kind of success." I listen and remember what Christine said about how uneventful and monotonous Dreams sounded when it emerged from Sly Stone's bed, to be transformed by Lindsey.

It's not necessary for me to lament Lindsey's lack of solo success when I feel that he is responsible for so much of Fleetwood Mac's.

Furthermore, as mortified as I was when he opened for Tina Turner, I think I'd have to kill myself if he opened for Rod Stewart. I don't spend a lot of time wishing he had Stevie's record or ticket sales.

I do wish he had the power, but not the immorality, to get Stevie fired, however. I envy her that.

Stevie's tour with Rod Stewart was the biggest mistake in her career since klonopin. Both have loyal fan bases and there was no need for them to tour "together." I wonder if they really split things 50/50. They billed the tour as no opening acts and just dual concerts. However Rod's ego made Stevie open every night and have Stevie join him on his stage. He never came out on her stage.
I give Stevie credit when she toured with Don Henley. He opened yet she still came out on stage on his set to sing with him. Rod's giant ego would not give her that respect.

[jmn3]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Stevie's tour with Rod Stewart was the biggest mistake in her career since klonopin. Both have loyal fan bases and there was no need for them to tour "together." I wonder if they really split things 50/50. They billed the tour as no opening acts and just dual concerts. However Rod's ego made Stevie open every night and have Stevie join him on his stage. He never came out on her stage.
I give Stevie credit when she toured with Don Henley. He opened yet she still came out on stage on his set to sing with him. Rod's giant ego would not give her that respect.

The two of them trying to harmonize on Young Turks night after night was just dreadful.

[ricohv]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Furthermore, as mortified as I was when he opened for Tina Turner, I think I'd have to kill myself if he opened for Rod Stewart. [/I]

DITTO

[ricohv]

Originally Posted by jmn3

The two of them trying to harmonize on Young Turks night after night was just dreadful.

The 2 of them on the same stage was indeed a dreadful, unfortunate mix of oil & water, or apples & oranges, or....

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by ricohv

The 2 of them on the same stage was indeed a dreadful, unfortunate mix of oil & water, or apples & oranges, or....

nasal and throaty

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I want to see him play MSG.

Still, I am very happy with his accomplishments. I don't see the Tik Tok video and think, "I wish Lindsey could even come close to that kind of success." I listen and remember what Christine said about how uneventful and monotonous Dreams sounded when it emerged from Sly Stone's bed, to be transformed by Lindsey.

It's not necessary for me to lament Lindsey's lack of solo success when I feel that he is responsible for so much of Fleetwood Mac's.

Furthermore, as mortified as I was when he opened for Tina Turner, I think I'd have to kill myself if he opened for Rod Stewart. I don't spend a lot of time wishing he had Stevie's record or ticket sales.

I do wish he had the power, but not the immorality, to get Stevie fired, however. I envy her that.

As much as Lindsey is the genius behind FM's success, he was never meant for mass appeal, solo. Listen to Law and Order, and tell me he's not quirky AF. Quirky AF doesn't work for mass appeal, unless you're Weird Al.