Is Lindsey running out of ideas?

[squealy]

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan. But in the past 10 years it seems to me he has done a lot of recycling. The bridge from "You Do or You Don't" reused in "Bleed to Love Her." "Doing What I Can" using the exact same arrangement as "Big Love." The guitar riff from "Big Love" again, slowed down and put into Stevie's "Destiny Rules." "Come" is just "This is the Time" again, which was in itself a rewrite of "Tango in the Night." Is he running out of ideas?

[wondergirl9847]

I don't believe he's running out of ideas. Stevie recycles phrases and entire verses (Destiny Rules/Illume on SYW!!) so he just does the opposite and recycles (or flubs with) his music.

I think it's a thread that he and Stevie use to "bind" together their songs.....hey, whatever, I love it!!

[darklinensuit]

I agree with Christy.

- Jake

[Anthony]

Sure He uses riffs from other songs to fit some lyrics, but I don't think it's related to running out of ideas. On the contrary. Maybe he's using them to collaborate with Stevies use of the same notes in her songs. Maybe that's why the SYW album is so confusing. Stevie relys on the same type of singing that made her famous but Lindsey wants to show some creativity. I think the new album reflects this. Mick, John and Stevie want to maintain that "Rumors" idiom but Lindsey is trying to break away from it. It must be frustrating for him to feel restrained like that. Maybe that's why he locks himself away to compose guitar pieces. I'd love to hear some of the stuff that the rest of the band says no to. Maybe another solo album like Red Rover would be appropriate right about now. Sure the hip-hop, rap-rock group of today might not want it, but I sure do.

[wondergirl9847]

Anthony is right! Everybody talks about SYW having Stevie's "normal" songs to balance out Lindsey's "out of left field" songs. They always cite the title track as "your typical FM song". Perhaps that's why it's one of my least faves on the album.....it's typical. I love EFO and Smile At You more because they are NOT your typical FM songs.

I would LOVE to have an LB solo album made up of Red Rover type music..."GASP-inducing....mouth agape in wonder" kind of songs!!!

[jwys_soapbox]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
I don't believe he's running out of ideas. Stevie recycles phrases and entire verses (Destiny Rules/Illume on SYW!!) so he just does the opposite and recycles (or flubs with) his music.

I think it's a thread that he and Stevie use to "bind" together their songs.....hey, whatever, I love it!!

I agree with you. None of this kind of thing is new. Artists have been doing since the beginning I think. It's called "allusion," the artist is alluding to another work (whether it be his/her own or that of another artist) in order to shorthandedly elaborate or to illustrate the message he/she is conveying. I've heard it in classical music, popular music (a great example aside from FM is Annie Lennox's "Seventeen Again" in which she alludes to "Sweet Dreams"), read it in poetry and literature. It's naive to think that the artist is not conscious of the fact that he's doing it--especially if he/she is alluding to a work of his own. When Lindsey sings the bridge in BTLH, he bloody well know3s exactly what he's doing.

John

[jwys_soapbox]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
I don't believe he's running out of ideas. Stevie recycles phrases and entire verses (Destiny Rules/Illume on SYW!!) so he just does the opposite and recycles (or flubs with) his music.

I think it's a thread that he and Stevie use to "bind" together their songs.....hey, whatever, I love it!!

I agree with you. None of this kind of thing is new. Artists have been doing since the beginning I think. It's called "allusion," the artist is alluding to another work (whether it be his/her own or that of another artist) in order to shorthandedly elaborate or to illustrate the message he/she is conveying. I've heard it in classical music, popular music (a great example aside from FM is Annie Lennox's "Seventeen Again" in which she alludes to "Sweet Dreams"), read it in poetry and literature. It's naive to think that the artist is not conscious of the fact that he's doing it--especially if he/she is alluding to a work of his own. When Lindsey sings the bridge in BTLH, he bloody well know3s exactly what he's doing.

John

[Johnny Stew]

It's also referred to as "leitmotif."

This was used in opera-scores, and carries over to contemporary film soundtracks. A passage or melody is used to represent a certain character or situation, and is re-used throughout the orchestration whenever the composer wants to emphasize that character or evoke a previous scene.

The term can also be used outside of the musical realm, to refer to a recurring theme in a story, or even in life!

[jwys_soapbox]

why does my post show up twice?


John

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by jwys_soapbox
why does my post show up twice?

It was so informative, it was worth repeating!


If you'd like to delete the second one, just click the "Edit" option. Once you're on the edit screen, just click the box towards the top of the page, which gives you the option to delete it.

[seteca]

Originally posted by squealy
The bridge from "You Do or You Don't" reused in "Bleed to Love Her." "Doing What I Can" using the exact same arrangement as "Big Love." The guitar riff from "Big Love" again, slowed down and put into Stevie's "Destiny Rules." "Come" is just "This is the Time" again, which was in itself a rewrite of "Tango in the Night." Is he running out of ideas?

The lyrics of that YDOYD bridge are the same as BTLH....but that's as far as it goes....I don't think they were re-used simply because of "musician's block." I think those lines are probably very important to him and he's trying to get a message across. Besides, plenty of artists repeat lyrics, or "ideas of lyrics" in songs.

I don't see any musical similarity at all between Big Love and Destiny Rules....?? Did you mean Miranda?

The only similarity between This Is The Time and Come is the "quiet verse / loud chorus" combination...the two songs are actually very diffferent, both musically and lyrically. Same goes for Tango In The Night.

I don't mean this to look like I'm trying to argue with every point you've made...I totally get what you mean, but I don't think he's running out of ideas: it goes back to what I've said so many times in threads like this...he has a certain style, a certain number of ways in which he works, and ultimately all of his songs are variations of those modes, and as LB fans we are always guaranteed to get a bucket-load of that signature LB sound with each album. The Big Love/Doing What I Can extreme similarity which you mentioned is an extreme example of this. If he was running out of ideas we wouldn't be hearing Red Rover, or Everybody Finds Out. I think there's still A LOT more in him, and hopefully the record industry will be kind enough to him and to us so we can hear it.

[DownOnRodeo]

Yes, Doing What I Can is the only instance where I get the remote impression Lindsye may have been tring to 'reapproach' something older.

It isn't a new thing for him to 'allude' - have you ever heard I Know I'm Not Wrong and Not That Funny?

Christy - an album full of Red-Roveresque music ..... (I couldn't find a 'fainting' emotiocn so these will have to do!)

[squealy]

The lyrics of that YDOYD bridge are the same as BTLH....but that's as far as it goes....

The chords are the same and the melody is similar... it's kind of the same melody sped up with no pauses between the lines.

I don't see any musical similarity at all between Big Love and Destiny Rules....?? Did you mean Miranda?

The guitar chords that open "Destiny Rules" are basically the same chords that Lindsey plays during the chorus of Big Love, slowed way down.

The only similarity between This Is The Time and Come is the "quiet verse / loud chorus" combination...the two songs are actually very diffferent, both musically and lyrically. Same goes for Tango In The Night.

With those songs I was talking more about the feel than the lyrics or any particular part of the melody... all three have very ethereal verses followed by power-chord choruses and lots of soloing. When I heard "Come" I felt like, "I've already heard this song from Lindsey twice." (I don't really like any of those songs so I wish Lindsey wouldn't keep writing more songs with the same structure).

Yes, his practice of alluding to other songs goes back to TUSK and "Not that Funny"/"I Know I'm Not Wrong." I think it's something you shouldn't overuse though. I mean, obviously he has a certain sound and he works within that sound. A song like "Steal Your Heart Away" doesn't necessarily sound like a specific other song of his, but it is immediately identifiable as a Lindsey Buckingham song. But given how unprolific Lindsey is, when he keeps reworking things he's recorded already, I worry that he is short on new ideas.

I do think the supercomplex picking and assymetrical melodies of "Red Rover" and "Say Goodbye" are an interesting new direction for him.

[seteca]

Originally posted by squealy
The chords are the same and the melody is similar... it's kind of the same melody sped up with no pauses between the lines.

I don't hear the similarity....? The Bleed To Love Her bridge changes evenly between Ab and Eb, whereas the YDOYD bridge changes between G, D and C. (Both have momentary joining chords which I've left out for simplicity.) They have very different feels, imo.

Originally posted by squealy
The guitar chords that open "Destiny Rules" are basically the same chords that Lindsey plays during the chorus of Big Love, slowed way down.

You're talking about the TITN version of Big Love...? I thought you meant the acoustic version! Yes, now that you point it out, I do see a similarity between the opening riff of Destiny Rules and the one in Big Love which fills the space between "Lookin' out for love" and "Big big love". But I really don't think that could be thought of as lack of originality.....It's got a TOTALLY different feel to it (Big Love sounds pop-rock....Destiny Rules is very country sounding) and serves a completely different purpose. The same cannot be said for Doing What I Can...but I love that song to death anyway!

[wondergirl9847]

This is all I could find to show how we would feel if he put out a "Red Roveresque" type CD!! Hehehehehehe.....