she said - he said why Lindsey Left

[olive]

in the Drama of the Moment there is no easy way ......oy vey!

hers

http://www.gigwise.com/news/79204/St...s-going-to-die

his

http://b1027.com/buckingham-recalls-...fleetwood-mac/

[Villavic]

I don't believe Stevie theory. As she said "And I think one of the reasons that Lindsey left is because I was very, very high... " so she wants to think that way, but even if it was true, I guess it was a very very little reason compared with the others.

What Mick described in his book (an episode that generated several threads and discussions here), coincides better with the Lindsey article and to this day I still believe on it:

August 7, 1987.

We gathered at Christine's house, where from the start feelings ran high. No one wanted to face the humiliation of a canceled tour it was like a hideous specter from our distant past except for Lindsey, who just wanted out. The meeting was civil for about five minutes. Stevie felt devastated. She took Lindsey's rejection of us personally. "You can't do this," she said. "Why are you doing this?"

Lindsey apologised. "Look, I'm sorry. I just can't do any more. I've given twelve years of my life to this band! I've done it all arranged, produced, played guitar, sang. I just can't... hack it... and do it all anymore." Christine spoke now. "What do you mean, Lindsey, do it all?" Her tone was withering. It was her singles, after all, that got played on the radio, not Lindsey's. This was a sore spot, because in interviews Lindsey had been describing his role in the band as the grand interpreter of Chris's and Stevie's music to the world as if he felt he had carried the rest of the band. Nobody liked this, especially now. Lindsey was silent. No one knew what to say. Lindsey had given his answer.

I looked over at Stevie, who was brushing back tears. "Lindsey," she said, "you've broken my f***ing heart on this." "Hey," he said, turning on Stevie and becoming agitated, "don't do this again. Don't start attacking me." "Watch out, Lindsey," Stevie said. "There's other people in the room besides yourself." "Oh s***!" Lindsey shouted. "Get this bitch out of my way. And f*** the lot of you!" A great hue and cry now ensued. Lindsey headed out to his car, and Stevie followed him outside to the courtyard, trying to change his mind. It was a terribly sad moment, because I could tell that even in her anger, a part of Stevie still loved Lindsey Buckingham and didn't want him to leave Fleetwood Mac. She didn't want him to go. They exchanged words in Chris's courtyard for a few moments. I didn't hear what he said, but Stevie cried out, "Hey, man, you'll never be in love with anyone but yourself!"

Then it got physical. Lindsey grabbed Stevie and slapped her and bent her backwards over the hood of his car. Was he going to hit her again? He'd done it before. Suddenly Dennis Dunstan and Stevie's manager Tony Dimitriades pulled Lindsey off her and told him that was enough. Lindsey then came back into the house, very distraught. He shouted, "Get that woman out of my life that schizophrenic bitch!" Christine was furious. "Lindsey, look at yourself, screaming like a madman." There was a silence. And John McVie quietly said to Lindsey Buckingham, "I think you'd better leave now."
"You're a bunch of selfish bastards," Lindsey said, and walked out. He sat in his car in the driveway for fifteen minutes, obviously distraught, but nobody wanted to go to him. Eventually, we heard him start his motor and leave.

John has confirmed he said that but he was meaning leave the house, not the band.

[WildHearted]

I believe it, for the most part. Not that it was the ONLY reason he left - but I think it most likely played a pretty big part in it. And even Stevie didn't say it was the only reason - just that it was one of the reasons

Stevie has a very dramatic way of wording things, for sure, but I think the essence of it probably rings pretty true - he didn't want to be around her anymore, really, and I'm sure that was influenced by her behavior/state of being at the time.

I doubt if that is just some theory that randomly came into Stevie's mind in that moment. I'm sure they've discussed his departure in the 20+ years that have transpired since. And as crazy as Stevie is, I don't think she'd say something like that if it wasn't something that had come up before. In the article, the interviewer said she turned to Lindsey half-way through her statement, as if to confirm with him that what she was saying was true,

Again, the sensational way in which she described it - "his beloved ex-girlfriend was going to live" so he could join FM again - probably (maybe definitely :laugh) a little over the top. But in essence, I don't see that it's all that bizarre of a "theory."

And while I enjoyed Mick's book, I don't take any of the specific details as cold hard facts. Lindsey isn't British.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by WildHearted

And while I enjoyed Mick's book, I don't take any of the specific details as cold hard facts. Lindsey isn't British.

I can believe that being around 3 Brits (and more if you count family & crew), that by '87, Lindsey could've through osmosis gained some typically Brit ways of expressing himself.

I know if I'm around my sister-in-law & brother-in-law from Oklahoma for more than 2 days, this native Californian can subconsciously acquire an authentic Okie accent fairly quickly. (When my band toured Canada back in the Eighties, I was talking like a native Canuck by week 3) I can only imagine if I were around them full-time. Probably the same with both Lindsey & Stevie when Fleetwood Mac was together a majority of the time (the tours & recording sessions from '75-80) And, some of those ways of verbal expressions may have stuck.

[CADreaming]

^^Lindsey has said he had to get away from all the craziness - Stevie's drug problem was obviously one of the main defining points of that. After what he had gone through with the recording, he was just over it.

This is not really a he said / she said anyway. Lindsey's wording wouldn't be the same of course, but I agree the essence was there - and his concern only increased over time. I think in '87 it was more anger.

[elle]

Originally Posted by WildHearted

In the article, the interviewer said she turned to Lindsey half-way through her statement, as if to confirm with him that what she was saying was true

there's a video of it - the text in that interview was transcribed from one of these village recorder videos they did... it's buried somewhere in that 2013 press thread. LB didn't say yay or nay when she said that... it probably fit in and added up with the other reasons he had - so both of them are probably telling just one part of the multilayered story.

[Sleepless-Child]

Originally Posted by WildHearted

I believe it, for the most part. Not that it was the ONLY reason he left - but I think it most likely played a pretty big part in it. And even Stevie didn't say it was the only reason - just that it was one of the reasons

Stevie has a very dramatic way of wording things, for sure, but I think the essence of it probably rings pretty true - he didn't want to be around her anymore, really, and I'm sure that was influenced by her behavior/state of being at the time.

I doubt if that is just some theory that randomly came into Stevie's mind in that moment. I'm sure they've discussed his departure in the 20+ years that have transpired since. And as crazy as Stevie is, I don't think she'd say something like that if it wasn't something that had come up before. In the article, the interviewer said she turned to Lindsey half-way through her statement, as if to confirm with him that what she was saying was true,

Again, the sensational way in which she described it - "his beloved ex-girlfriend was going to live" so he could join FM again - probably (maybe definitely :laugh) a little over the top. But in essence, I don't see that it's all that bizarre of a "theory."

And while I enjoyed Mick's book, I don't take any of the specific details as cold hard facts. Lindsey isn't British.

This exactly!
I think that he was close to being "disgusted" by Stevie at the time. I think that when you love someone so much and that person stays crazy (or "schizophrenic" ), and you personally have grown and changed, you push that person away because you can't believe you were with that person. In the end, it's a part of yourself, your past, that you want to erase (the fact that you could tolerate a person like that means you were a lot like that). So it's not just Stevie. But it's also really Stevie.

[WildHearted]

Originally Posted by elle

there's a video of it - the text in that interview was transcribed from one of these village recorder videos they did... it's buried somewhere in that 2013 press thread. LB didn't say yay or nay when she said that... it probably fit in and added up with the other reasons he had - so both of them are probably telling just one part of the multilayered story.

I don't recall seeing this particular discussion in video format at all. And I thought I'd seen everything.

[elle]

Originally Posted by WildHearted

I don't recall seeing this particular discussion in video format at all. And I thought I'd seen everything.

yeah look through 2013 press thread and CBS thread - it's in one of those 2 (Stevie's side of the story). people were discussing it in that thread too.

[WildHearted]

Originally Posted by elle

yeah look through 2013 press thread and CBS thread - it's in one of those 2 (Stevie's side of the story). people were discussing it in that thread too.

I've looked through them all, and I can't find it. But I could be blind.

As far as I'm aware, this all originated with the Rolling Stone interview.

Both quotes are taken from there, just one of the writers decided to use Lindsey's words and the other used Stevie's .

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by elle

there's a video of it - the text in that interview was transcribed from one of these village recorder videos they did... it's buried somewhere in that 2013 press thread. LB didn't say yay or nay when she said that... it probably fit in and added up with the other reasons he had - so both of them are probably telling just one part of the multilayered story.

Multilayered! Excellent description.

Originally Posted by Sleepless-Child

This exactly!
I think that he was close to being "disgusted" by Stevie at the time. I think that when you love someone so much and that person stays crazy (or "schizophrenic" ), and you personally have grown and changed, you push that person away because you can't believe you were with that person. In the end, it's a part of yourself, your past, that you want to erase (the fact that you could tolerate a person like that means you were a lot like that). So it's not just Stevie. But it's also really Stevie.

Great point!

Originally Posted by WildHearted

I don't recall seeing this particular discussion in video format at all. And I thought I'd seen everything.

I would love to see that too!

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by chiliD

I can believe that being around 3 Brits (and more if you count family & crew), that by '87, Lindsey could've through osmosis gained some typically Brit ways of expressing himself.

I know if I'm around my sister-in-law & brother-in-law from Oklahoma for more than 2 days, this native Californian can subconsciously acquire an authentic Okie accent fairly quickly. (When my band toured Canada back in the Eighties, I was talking like a native Canuck by week 3) I can only imagine if I were around them full-time. Probably the same with both Lindsey & Stevie when Fleetwood Mac was together a majority of the time (the tours & recording sessions from '75-80) And, some of those ways of verbal expressions may have stuck.

Lol! This has always amused me - one I notice is they say "my pleasure" a lot which is not necessarily just British but I think they must have picked it up from the Brits.

[Macfanforever]

Thanks for the info.

Was She said - He said a game show awhile back.

[bombaysaffires]

I think it's on the one hand typically Stevie-centric thinking, but on the other hand, it's a case of Stevie more publicly acknowledging that her behavior during that time was out of control and had an impact on what transpired within the band. She's simultaneously romanticizing it and not romanticizing it which is a pretty hard thing to do!

I suspect that it was also Mick's behavior and even John's issues that got to Lindsey as well. He has said as much in the past-- and when he's talked about getting back together with the band for The Dance seeing not just the changes in Stevie but also in Mick was really good. (I think he says something about this in the DR doc as well).

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

Lol! This has always amused me - one I notice is they say "my pleasure" a lot which is not necessarily just British but I think they must have picked it up from the Brits.

I also think Lindsey's use of the term "red rover" may have come from them.

It's not totally foreign to Americans, but after the song Red Rover his using it in SATC too just struck me as odd. It's more common for the English. And CAH mentioned them all saying "punters."

It's like Chris saying Stevie told her she was knackered. Stevie may have said that, but Christine might have been paraphrasing.

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

I suspect that it was also Mick's behavior and even John's issues that got to Lindsey as well. He has said as much in the past-- and when he's talked about getting back together with the band for The Dance seeing not just the changes in Stevie but also in Mick was really good. (I think he says something about this in the DR doc as well).

Yes, Mick has said it was his own behavior that Lindsey didn't like and Lindsey always gripes about wanting to have more regular hours by that time and so them recording at his house got sort of trying -- for his girlfriend too. In the old days, Lindsey was right there with Mick pulling an all nighter and not minding one bit, but by 1987 maybe he had changed or was ready to get more sober before Mick and Stevie.

As for Stevie, when she listed the things that the Klonopin caused her to lose, she did mention that she might have gotten the band together sooner, if she hadn't been on the drug. So, even years ago she was thinking that the Klonopin kept them apart, even if she didn't also think it broke them apart. I think she might imagine that they could have come together after the BTM tour if she'd been straight.

As for John, I think it's kind of funny on the DR video when Lindsey was telling Stevie what the reunion meant to him and is crying and saying something about "John the way he is now." I don't know exactly what that sentence means, but it amused me, mainly because I think Lindsey was deliberately trying to soften Stevie up and throwing in everything he could think of.

Michele