Who Has Given Up ??

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

What's really ironic, if you take this exact quote and replace OTTC with Bella Donna, replace Lindsey with "Stevie" you would be labeled as somebody spreading rage fueled rhetoric and asked to leave an entire forum, by the same person who wrote the original quote. .

Except Bella Donna came out about two years after Tusk, was recorded in three months, she didn’t quit the band to make it, nor did she ever claim that it was anything other than another outlet for her music.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Except Bella Donna came out about two years after Tusk, was recorded in three months, she didn’t quit the band to make it, nor did she ever claim that it was anything other than another outlet for her music.

I don't think he quit the band to make his solo album. He quit it because he was fighting with dysfunctional, addicts. Homeless Mick on one hand and no show Stevie (well, to give her credit, she did show up for Petty and Dylan concerts) on the other.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Are people not allowed to back away from a situation and focus on making an album for a few years. Using your own words, why is that being thrown back at Lindsey?

A few years? Sure. But five years, and the album sounds like the second part of an album that came out five years earlier? And then another eleven years until his next studio release (SYW)?

Originally Posted by BigAl84

How many years was it between Street Angel and Trouble In Shangri-La - 6 years or so? By your own logic, TISL has no merit either or is that now a profound masterpiece? Let me know if I've mistaken.

I wouldn’t call most of Stevie’s solo albums masterpieces, truth be told. But at least she was on the road, keeping her name out there. TISL wasn’t much, but it was something, it was the only new album from any of them since “Time.” Meanwhile, Lindsey’s fecklessness and Christine’s retirement created a scenario where a generation basically grew up without them. Hell, there was a stretch in the late ‘90s where Peter Green was less reclusive.

[David]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Except Bella Donna came out about two years after Tusk, was recorded in three months, she didn’t quit the band to make it, nor did she ever claim that it was anything other than another outlet for her music.

More apples to oranges. When you say that BD took three months to make, that's misleading. First, the recording sessions, which were off and on, actually lasted longer than three months, but no biggie. Second, Stevie worked on her songs and demos with other musicians (like Tom Moncrief, Mick Fleetwood, Sharon Celani, and Jorge Calderón) off and on over a period of at least three years—from spring 1978 through late winter 1980. Many of those sessions included all the members of the Heartbreakers (Stan, Mike, Benmont, and Ron) in many hours of work (recordings of which surfaced from the old Modern storage unit). So Stevie was working on material for BD off and on over a period of three years. It's misleading to say that it took "three months"; it even took longer at the actual sessions at Studio 55 and Goodnight L.A., but many of the songs had already been worked on and worked out well beforehand.

[David]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I wouldn’t call most of Stevie’s solo albums masterpieces, truth be told.

Glad to hear it! I thought they were all equal to Revolver or Exile on Main Street!

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

But at least she was on the road, keeping her name out there.

While he was producing solo albums, Fleetwood Mac albums, and sometimes even friends' albums.

There's no question that he has always dragged his feet and wasted a lot of time. She has, too. (Rock a Little? Street Angel?) But you're pushing a weird story here—that he's slow and she's fast, and that her speed made her a commercial force that he could only dream about. That's silly. She didn't get inducted into the hall of fame as a solo gal because she busted her behind all these decades. (In fact, we chiffonheads always used to complain about how long she was taking on most of her projects.) She got inducted because the public likes her and remembers her.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by David

Glad to hear it! I thought they were all equal to Revolver or Exile on Main Street!

While he was producing solo albums, Fleetwood Mac albums, and sometimes even friends' albums.

There's no question that he has always dragged his feet and wasted a lot of time. She has, too. (Rock a Little? Street Angel?) But you're pushing a weird story here—that he's slow and she's fast, and that her speed made her a commercial force that he could only dream about. That's silly. She didn't get inducted into the hall of fame as a solo gal because she busted her behind all these decades. (In fact, we chiffonheads always used to complain about how long she was taking on most of her projects.) She got inducted because the public likes her and remembers her.

wait, what? the rock a little era wasnt the career defining moment that is referenced to this day, who knew!!

[Street_Dreamer]

Originally Posted by David

She got inducted because the public likes her and remembers her.

That HAS to be the reason. As I've mentioned before, in terms of her solo material, only Bella Donna and The Wild Heart are fantastic albums top to bottom. Rock A Little is trash, The Other Side Of The Mirror was mostly underwhelming and Street Angel was embarrassing. I didn't think Trouble In Shangra-La was all that special and I've never listened to In Your Dreams or 24 Karat Gold.

Stack up her solo work to her work in Fleetwood Mac and it's not even close to being competitive. Outside of her first two solo albums, none of her music transcends time. People talk about Tango In The Night having a "dated" sound. Compared to Rock A Little and The Other Side Of The Mirror, Tango In The Night sounds like it came out yesterday.

Personally, I think there are plenty of women and men who had better and more prolific careers than Stevie. Of course my opinion doesn't matter and she's in the HoF forever. Good for her but she never would have got as far as she did by herself if it weren't for Fleetwood Mac and Lindsey's production on her songs.

[button-lip]

Originally Posted by Street_Dreamer

Personally, I think there are plenty of women and men who had better and more prolific careers than Stevie. Of course my opinion doesn't matter and she's in the HoF forever. Good for her but she never would have got as far as she did by herself if it weren't for Fleetwood Mac and Lindsey's production on her songs.

And for all those people working for her 24/7. Those are the people that made possible all those albums and all those tours. She knows her job very well.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by wayner

Never say never, but for now

and until a lot of things change

I've given up and will spend no more $$ on Fleetwood Mac , its current line-up ,or anything to do with members of the original 'Rumors Five'

Who else ??

I just had a discussion with my wife about this, we have seen 3 concerts under the new regime - vegas , san diego, and atlantic city ... notice the party city connection (even though MSG is in our backyard) - one of the reasons we went to this shows ... her words were very simply put

fleetwood mac without lindsey is like the stones without mick

end of conversation

[michelej1]

I like her solo albums well enough. Street Angel and Rock-A-Little are my least favorite. Wild Heart is my favorite, because her vocals were on fire.

TISL was a slow burn. It was tuneless. The songs just droned on and on with no beat and I wrote it off early, but then I revisited it about two years in and it really grew on me. It's mood-invoking.

The fact that I was attracted to her sound before I was even aware of FM tells me that she did indeed possess an indefinable spark. I mean without knowing who the vocalist was on Magnet and Steel, Gold, or even on the icky Sweet Love, I was drawn to her. Listen to the woman on Midnight Wind and try and deny she can be mesmerizing.

Of course, I do have to say the same thing about Lindsey. Gold and Magnet and Steel. That's him and I recognized the production value in those songs without having a clue that Lindsey Buckingham even existed.

But Stevie, as she said, even in Fritz, the boys played their hearts out, but folks kept asking about the mousy-brown haired girl. She caught their eye somehow. Of course, we should point out that FM was not the first time that Lindsey took his girlfriend along for the ride. Lindsey was the one who was offered a record deal in those early days and, as he did on NYE 1974, he made Stevie a part of that, when they left Fritz behind. The musicians gravitated towards Lindsey and the rest were drawn in by Stevie's charm.

I guess that merits her being in the RRHOF.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by saniette

Fact: Artists generally take longer between albums than they did in the 60s. So false equivalency. Not to mention 6-9 months was considered a long time for an album back then, like 5 years would be now.

I could buy that if he had been doing a lot of touring, but he just went away for five years. Like, did the songs need an extra year and a half to sound better? At some point, doesn’t a song just have to be done? How many extra oohs, ahs, handclaps, electronic percussion hits, or miscellaneous guitar parts will it take to actually improve the song? At what point is it a major artist achievement or just a grand exercise in self-indulgence?

You're making excuses for Christine. A solo career means you release solo albums, and hers did just okay. If she released an album, she wasn't in retirement, so why would different standards apply?

Those albums were more hobby than career move or artistic statement. Christine’s first solo album was done because she was bored being a housewife with nothing to do while John was on tour and “In The Meantime” was something her nephew basically started.

My opinion is that OOTC is better than Stevie's 2 albums released in the same time frame. But quantity over quality, that's the corporate rock way, right?

I totally agree that OOTC is better than Stevie’s albums, but that’s not exactly the point.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I could buy that if he had been doing a lot of touring, but he just went away for five years. Like, did the songs need an extra year and a half to sound better? At some point, doesn’t a song just have to be done? How many extra oohs, ahs, handclaps, electronic percussion hits, or miscellaneous guitar parts will it take to actually improve the song? At what point is it a major artist achievement or just a grand exercise in self-indulgence?


Those albums were more hobby than career move or artistic statement. Christine’s first solo album was done because she was bored being a housewife with nothing to do while John was on tour and “In The Meantime” was something her nephew basically started.


I totally agree that OOTC is better than Stevie’s albums, but that’s not exactly the point.

We are so relieved you approve. I have to admit, it was a nail biter!

Yeah, he didn't tour nearly 500 dates in three years like Stevie, that workhorse-whippersnapper-miracle worker that she is, working harder than anyone in showbiz, all the way to the rock hall baby!!

Clearly In the Meantime would of been a cultural treasure had Christine had the pure privilege to have you produce it. After all you are our Robert Mandavi of music criticism, our gracious well of music production expertise.

While we are on the topic of just how many oohs and ahhs are really needed, I too often wondered just how many stinkin' stairs did stevie REALLY need to climb in that talk to me video. Right?!

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Yeah, he didn't tour nearly 500 dates in three years like Stevie, that workhorse whippersnapper miracle worker that she is, working harder than anyone in showbiz, all the way to the rock hall baby!!

She works like a soldier in the army.

[BigAl84]

Like a Soldier's Angel.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by michelej1

She works like a soldier in the army.

Her life has been so difficult.