Is this valid? Politics not my forte

[Nikolaj]

I may exceed my record of 'delete' posts. Forgiving sorts, I know exist here may need to- and any with no interest in politics, please spare yourselves. Ledge mega-minds, I know I'm in over my head, but I just felt like asking about something other than favorite album covers, though that is fun. I know my few strengths, and politics isn't one. I nearly function there, if at all.
I lied, when I said I was swearing off long Ledge writings. I once wrote I don't lie, but I am a liar. Didn't mean to lie. Now 39 hours with no sleep- not intentional debauchery, but a malfunction, with a feverish little mind not shutting up for one second, even. 40 hours now that I'm spell-checking.
At times, wiser, more informed people here write about politics, and I try to improve my mind and read it all. I feel unqualified, I am very late to the game, my Prague origin shouldn't matter, but I have used as an exuse- I am an American, and have been uninformed politically for too long. Ideas and ideals exist under the surface, and I am thinking a lot of racism, sexism, elitism, and rich democratic soapboxing that is every bit 'Republican' as the Republican party itself.
I think of my half-Japanese nephews, their father's pride in 2008 showing his and my sister's sons how much progress the US has made by himself and other forward thinking Americans of mixed cultural backgrounds electing Obama, and wonder, what about Hilary Clinton?
I can't structure this well - Was thinking- was a nation lead astray by one Oprah Winfrey, who somehow had the power, influence, and millions of her billions of dollars to back Obama-- first by cornering the housewife market, and by having a built in black vote support and using her celebrity to all but promise people progress was being made by this man she showcased as someone almost supernaturally possessed of the need to be elected? No right thinking American could not vote for him was the way I viewed the program I saw of OW endorsing him when Hilary was the expected candidate.
What the hell, when in fact, it seems now very possible that someone so lacking in qualification was elected President because of a powerful black woman who could affect the media in methods more far-reaching than most people would assume- There is a reason that 'ET' and other news magazines have adopted the nickname 'Lady O' for Oprah-it's like she doesn't want any woman to achieve as much as she has, so she stopped Hilary because race balance is more important to her than women because she as a woman has 'got hers' but as a black person she knows her race has been shortchanged, and electing a somewhat black man would somehow show progress more important by using a 'black man' more than one, particularly more qualified white woman? I am asking.
The powerful, billionaire OW used every method she had to help displace the front runner Hilary Clinton- who was very qualified and seemed, for a time, to be on the fast track to be the first female American president. Important to a nation, important to women's equality, but not as important as race to OW because she maybe didn't want a woman with qualification to surpass her own 'most powerful woman in the US' status? Why would that be so? Why has she published at least 6 years of a magazine with her photo on the cover every damned month? I know O is a major philanthropic force and I am sure she does far more good than bad.
But did OW promote a 'black' man raised by white parents, pass him off as black, appeal to 'white guilt' we have (Thank God this is a Fleetwood Mac forum, I would feel very bad if many black people were to read it) and keep the qualified white woman out of office?
Not that I dislike the President. I don't understand how someone 2 or 3 years older than me can be president, however!
Internationally with his recent and unprecedented Asian and Indian blunders with more than hints that a US President appeared racist and arrogant while in countries the US was on good terms with, isn't it time to say Americans voted Obama president out of guilt at the horrible injustices black Americans have faced since forever?
Now, of course, life has not changed one bit since his election- not the economy, minority rights, health insurance issues, the ridiculous war?
I just wonder, is something more cynical or glossed-over going on right now, more so than in the last Bush administration? Or is it the same? I feel like Hilary Clinton would have said the right things in Asia and India, done something about health insurance for Americans without it and especially for education.
Why did she- and the country get screwed over for Obama? A nice man, but was it realistic that he (or maybe anyone?) could clean up the last 8 years before he got into office.
I am aware many Americans felt that Hilary had skeletons in her closet regarding financial dealings, but would she have been good for the country in 2008 in a way that Obama isn't?
I hope I don't seem racist myself, by criticizing Oprah's motives or bringing up the not important comment that Obama had white parents who raised him. I don't think of myself as racist, there are multiple races in my own family. I certainly don't think a white woman equals a better President based on white and woman, than black and man.
Well, I just felt like stretching myself a little here, you know, before I turn 100.

[louielouie2000]

The simple reason why Obama won was America desperately wanted change. They were sick of open-ended wars, a sagging economy, and the same political dynasty families holding all the Nation's power: ie Bushes, Kennedys, Clintons, et al. I think many people felt that Bush had run the country into the ground with his policies, so they swung to his complete opposite for their new leadership: Obama. Compared to Obama, Hillary seemed like a typical career Washington crony... she looked perpetually tired and was not a particularly energizing presence. She seemed far removed from Middle America. Fresh faced and enthusiastic Obama was just the opposite. He seemed like a true Washington outsider. He spoke of great change, of getting America back on track, and instilled hope in people. Compared to Bush, he was a natural and engaging orator. He just seemed like the absolute right person at the right time who said all the right things.

That being said, I have no doubt that without the backing of Oprah Winfrey, Obama wouldn't have made it into 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. I am guessing if Oprah had instead endored Hillary, Hillary would have won by record margins. Hillary was indeed the common sense pick, but she wasn't the one who pulled at people's heart strings. Oprah's endorsement of Obama was undoubtedly the swing vote. Oprah has always come across to America as a trusted voice of reason. When she endorses anything, people follow. Oprah's championing Obama was what pushed him to the forefront, I have no doubt. It validated to people that it was okay to vote with your heart instead of with your brain.

Do I think the country would be different now had Hillary won instead? I have to say yes. The reason I say so is because it's my opinion Obama has encountered partisan resistance with a ferocity of which I've never seen before... and in my opinion, it's because he's black and has an Arabic name. Both of those factors threaten highly conservative white males... who have throughout the history of mankind have held all worldwide power. That's not to say their publicly voiced critiques of Obama aren't valid. He is inexperienced. He is without a doubt stumbling. No doubt he doesn't have the decades of Washington ties which would enable him to twist more arms and get more things done. He also doesn't come across as formidable of a presence as Hillary Clinton, per se. That being said, I don't really think he and Hillary had all that different of agendas for the country. And when it comes down to it, Hillary likely would have accomplished far more these past 2 years than Obama has been able to. Would Hillary have been steamrolled in the same fashion as Obama because she is a woman (and a very forceful one at that)? Possibly... but I think Hillary would have demanded respect and found ways to bring her adversaries to their knees. I think part of it is because Obama feels like he has to tread lightly because he is a minority with a greatly feared ethnicity in his background. I'm guessing if Obama is elected to a second term though, we'll see an entirely different, more forceful side of him.

All this being said, I unabashedly admit I voted for Obama in the primaries and in the presidential race. I still don't regret it either, because I felt he was the right candidate for the right time. To me, a vote for Obama was a ratification for all Americans that it is ok to vote for the candidate who you truly want... not just the one who has the best odds of winning. I freely admit I truly hate seeing Obama struggle the way he has, and because of it, the country seems to be stuck in a perpetual limbo. I still think Obama has the capability to do really wonderful things for America though, and still hold out hope he'll do just that.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by Nikolaj

I may exceed my record of 'delete' posts. Forgiving sorts, I know exist here may need to- and any with no interest in politics, please spare yourselves. Ledge mega-minds, I know I'm in over my head, but I just felt like asking about something other than favorite album covers, though that is fun. I know my few strengths, and politics isn't one. I nearly function there, if at all.
I lied, when I said I was swearing off long Ledge writings. I once wrote I don't lie, but I am a liar. Didn't mean to lie. Now 39 hours with no sleep- not intentional debauchery, but a malfunction, with a feverish little mind not shutting up for one second, even. 40 hours now that I'm spell-checking.
At times, wiser, more informed people here write about politics, and I try to improve my mind and read it all. I feel unqualified, I am very late to the game, my Prague origin shouldn't matter, but I have used as an exuse- I am an American, and have been uninformed politically for too long. Ideas and ideals exist under the surface, and I am thinking a lot of racism, sexism, elitism, and rich democratic soapboxing that is every bit 'Republican' as the Republican party itself.
I think of my half-Japanese nephews, their father's pride in 2008 showing his and my sister's sons how much progress the US has made by himself and other forward thinking Americans of mixed cultural backgrounds electing Obama, and wonder, what about Hilary Clinton?
I can't structure this well - Was thinking- was a nation lead astray by one Oprah Winfrey, who somehow had the power, influence, and millions of her billions of dollars to back Obama-- first by cornering the housewife market, and by having a built in black vote support and using her celebrity to all but promise people progress was being made by this man she showcased as someone almost supernaturally possessed of the need to be elected? No right thinking American could not vote for him was the way I viewed the program I saw of OW endorsing him when Hilary was the expected candidate.
What the hell, when in fact, it seems now very possible that someone so lacking in qualification was elected President because of a powerful black woman who could affect the media in methods more far-reaching than most people would assume- There is a reason that 'ET' and other news magazines have adopted the nickname 'Lady O' for Oprah-it's like she doesn't want any woman to achieve as much as she has, so she stopped Hilary because race balance is more important to her than women because she as a woman has 'got hers' but as a black person she knows her race has been shortchanged, and electing a somewhat black man would somehow show progress more important by using a 'black man' more than one, particularly more qualified white woman? I am asking.
The powerful, billionaire OW used every method she had to help displace the front runner Hilary Clinton- who was very qualified and seemed, for a time, to be on the fast track to be the first female American president. Important to a nation, important to women's equality, but not as important as race to OW because she maybe didn't want a woman with qualification to surpass her own 'most powerful woman in the US' status? Why would that be so? Why has she published at least 6 years of a magazine with her photo on the cover every damned month? I know O is a major philanthropic force and I am sure she does far more good than bad.
But did OW promote a 'black' man raised by white parents, pass him off as black, appeal to 'white guilt' we have (Thank God this is a Fleetwood Mac forum, I would feel very bad if many black people were to read it) and keep the qualified white woman out of office?
Not that I dislike the President. I don't understand how someone 2 or 3 years older than me can be president, however!
Internationally with his recent and unprecedented Asian and Indian blunders with more than hints that a US President appeared racist and arrogant while in countries the US was on good terms with, isn't it time to say Americans voted Obama president out of guilt at the horrible injustices black Americans have faced since forever?
Now, of course, life has not changed one bit since his election- not the economy, minority rights, health insurance issues, the ridiculous war?
I just wonder, is something more cynical or glossed-over going on right now, more so than in the last Bush administration? Or is it the same? I feel like Hilary Clinton would have said the right things in Asia and India, done something about health insurance for Americans without it and especially for education.
Why did she- and the country get screwed over for Obama? A nice man, but was it realistic that he (or maybe anyone?) could clean up the last 8 years before he got into office.
I am aware many Americans felt that Hilary had skeletons in her closet regarding financial dealings, but would she have been good for the country in 2008 in a way that Obama isn't?
I hope I don't seem racist myself, by criticizing Oprah's motives or bringing up the not important comment that Obama had white parents who raised him. I don't think of myself as racist, there are multiple races in my own family. I certainly don't think a white woman equals a better President based on white and woman, than black and man.
Well, I just felt like stretching myself a little here, you know, before I turn 100.

Wow... that was... long...

The short answer to your answer is "yes." It is really difficult to imagine how a white man with Obama's credentials and brain could rise to such power so quickly- from a junior senator (who did not even finish a first term) to becoming the most powerful man in the world. It really was a total social movement that not even Oprah could have affected- Obama was the right "type" of person in the right place at the right time with the right message. There would be no President Obama if the country had not been pillaged and trashed by the Dubyah administration. Obama symbolized the populist rebellion against everything Bush and the Republicans stood for at the time. He was a 180-degree divergence from the status quo- not only was he not white, he came from humble beginnings, yet he was the smartest guy in the room- Ivy League educated- and he spoke with a resonance that left people like Bush, McCain and Palin sounding like fumphering idiots. His quasi-socialist tones also resonated deeply with the limousine liberals- the wealthy and white media elite who somehow felt that electing a black president with a social agenda would somehow help to assuage their own self-hatred about being white, rich and powerful. Unfortunately for Hillary, even as a woman, she represented the status quo- a rich, older, white D.C. insider who was seen as riding the coattails of her husband. And ultimately she was race-baited and gender-baited and she took the bait, much to her own detriment. She came off as shrill and weak when she was under fire.

I think it's a shame that Obama has been so ineffective as president. But I think a lot of it is out of his control. The very presence of this intelligent, well-spoken black man with a message of compassion and hope just did not sit will with the nutty fringe who started the Tea Party. And unfortunately, I think this will be the legacy of Obama- partisan politics taken to the umpteenth level. Yes, Obama did not help matters by steamrolling over the Republicans in congress repeatedly. But they did not exactly greet him with open arms either. The Tea Party has managed to coalesce every disgusting, putrid element of American society today under a single monolothic banner: evangelical Christians, racists, anti-intellectuals, gun owners, homophobes, conservatives, Sarah Palin, etc. As an assorted faction of wacky individual causes, they really had limited ability to sway the course of politics. But the nutjobs have unified and are actually now starting to have an affect. Rand Paul, anyone? This is what scares me more than anything in America today. We are basically at a standoff until either Obama leaves office after his first term (likely, unfortunately ) or the American public wisens up and stops voting against their own self interests (not likely). Oh, America...

[vermicious knid]

Obama has been a shameful failure. I am hoping for a primary challenge.

[Nikolaj]

^ and especially, ^^ -Thank You.--you also, Louie- lots of knowledge and I'm fortunate that you shared it with me.
Hejira (!), I am going to print out what you wrote, as there's so much information in it that I am unaware of that it will help me learn, once I google some of the terms and people you wrote of.
The one thing I could understand straight off was that Obama being the anti-Bush, which you said much better, had to have been a major factor in how his election happened.
Until I understand more about your most thoughtful and eloquently informed reply, I'm a man with nothing more to write on this topic. I need to have something, anything, of value to offer on this subject and I believe you've provided me with a generous head start to achieve that.
Thank you for reading at such length something so beneath your level of knowledge, and for giving me answers to improve my own knowledge, if I put effort into absorbing what you took time to give to me.
I do appreciate it greatly.

[rubytuesday]

Was it really just his race? That doesn't seem fair it seems very simplistic. In the end it was policy wasn't it? Health care, his position on the iraq war etc. I don't think oprah is that powerful is she? Not enough to be responsible for him winning a whole election.

[chelluversu]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

The simple reason why Obama won was America desperately wanted change. They were sick of open-ended wars, a sagging economy, and the same political dynasty families holding all the Nation's power: ie Bushes, Kennedys, Clintons, et al. I think many people felt that Bush had run the country into the ground with his policies, so they swung to his complete opposite for their new leadership: Obama. Compared to Obama, Hillary seemed like a typical career Washington crony... she looked perpetually tired and was not a particularly energizing presence. She seemed far removed from Middle America. Fresh faced and enthusiastic Obama was just the opposite. He seemed like a true Washington outsider. He spoke of great change, of getting America back on track, and instilled hope in people. Compared to Bush, he was a natural and engaging orator. He just seemed like the absolute right person at the right time who said all the right things.

That being said, I have no doubt that without the backing of Oprah Winfrey, Obama wouldn't have made it into 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. I am guessing if Oprah had instead endored Hillary, Hillary would have won by record margins. Hillary was indeed the common sense pick, but she wasn't the one who pulled at people's heart strings. Oprah's endorsement of Obama was undoubtedly the swing vote. Oprah has always come across to America as a trusted voice of reason. When she endorses anything, people follow. Oprah's championing Obama was what pushed him to the forefront, I have no doubt. It validated to people that it was okay to vote with your heart instead of with your brain.

Do I think the country would be different now had Hillary won instead? I have to say yes. The reason I say so is because it's my opinion Obama has encountered partisan resistance with a ferocity of which I've never seen before... and in my opinion, it's because he's black and has an Arabic name. Both of those factors threaten highly conservative white males... who have throughout the history of mankind have held all worldwide power. That's not to say their publicly voiced critiques of Obama aren't valid. He is inexperienced. He is without a doubt stumbling. No doubt he doesn't have the decades of Washington ties which would enable him to twist more arms and get more things done. He also doesn't come across as formidable of a presence as Hillary Clinton, per se. That being said, I don't really think he and Hillary had all that different of agendas for the country. And when it comes down to it, Hillary likely would have accomplished far more these past 2 years than Obama has been able to. Would Hillary have been steamrolled in the same fashion as Obama because she is a woman (and a very forceful one at that)? Possibly... but I think Hillary would have demanded respect and found ways to bring her adversaries to their knees. I think part of it is because Obama feels like he has to tread lightly because he is a minority with a greatly feared ethnicity in his background. I'm guessing if Obama is elected to a second term though, we'll see an entirely different, more forceful side of him.

All this being said, I unabashedly admit I voted for Obama in the primaries and in the presidential race. I still don't regret it either, because I felt he was the right candidate for the right time. To me, a vote for Obama was a ratification for all Americans that it is ok to vote for the candidate who you truly want... not just the one who has the best odds of winning. I freely admit I truly hate seeing Obama struggle the way he has, and because of it, the country seems to be stuck in a perpetual limbo. I still think Obama has the capability to do really wonderful things for America though, and still hold out hope he'll do just that.

I agree...

The cause of Obama's presidency was his message, and because of that message he got the backing of people like Oprah (the friggin queen of television). That plus Oprah = holy ish.

Obama will probably be one of those presidents who are regarded in history as "bad" because he was elected as president during a horrible time for America (the economy, the war, blah) with no way to effective get rid of it all. On top of the effedupness (not even a word... but if Sarah Palin can create "refudiate", then I can do this) the Republicans will do whatever they can to not allow his re-election...

the START thing: This would be one of Obama's major accomplishments, but it will probably not happen because the Republicans (the mean and evil ones) will not allow Obama to be able to say "I did this!". It takes 60 votes to stop a filibuster; the democrats are all behind it (58), they have 1 Republican (need 1 more!!!)...

How petty...

I never thought of Oprah as the type who would never allow some other female to become more powerful than her, but now that you mention it...
OMG!!!! it makes sense.

Off topic:

I have to show you guys this WikiChina thing that I read... I have to type it out though so not now (MUST.TYPE.HAMLET.ESSAY. )

[David]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

The Tea Party has managed to coalesce every disgusting, putrid element of American society today under a single monolothic banner: evangelical Christians, racists, anti-intellectuals, gun owners, homophobes, conservatives, Sarah Palin, etc. As an assorted faction of wacky individual causes, they really had limited ability to sway the course of politics. But the nutjobs have unified and are actually now starting to have an affect. Rand Paul, anyone? This is what scares me more than anything in America today.

Hey! I'm in the Tea Party! You're not afraid of me, are you?

[carrie721]

^ quoth the boy who cried wolfgang.

[vermicious knid]

Originally Posted by David

Hey! I'm in the Tea Party! You're not afraid of me, are you?

Does the Tea Party Nation President speak for you when he says that people who aren't landowners should be denied voting rights?