The Sunday Times: Excess all areas

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

He left because on ALL levels (personal, creative, business etc) that group of people were one effed up mess and he just didn't want to deal with it anymore. Can't say I blame him. But you have to wonder if the creative differences were still the same and neither Stevie nor Mick were as addicted as they were would he have left anyway? I suspect yes.

I think he would have at least done the tour, if they'd had a calmer recording process. He seemed to have planned for Tango to be their last album anyway, but I don't think he intended things to end so abruptly. I think it would have been worth it to him to stay with FM closer to launching his own solo album, if he could have just tolerated that environment, but he couldn't. Even today, he still complains about the chaos of the trailer at his home and how all the goings on upset his girlfriend. Stevie was off on the Petty/Dylan tour and things just disintegrated completely after that.

In fact, I don't think he became worried for Stevie's life until the BTM tour when he saw them. I don't think her mortality (as opposed to just everyone's craziness, including his own) was on his mind in 1987.

Michele

[Ulpian]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

The Christine news doesn't surprise me at all. Is it too much to hope that some of that loneliness she feels on her big estate will spur her into another creative project? Perhaps getting some of her beloved solo-band lads together for some more music making?

To some extent I was saddened to hear that Christine is lonely. However, she is to some extent the author of her own misfortune by making the drastic changes she made in '98 and, if some reports are to be believed, then retreated behind her gates and rarely ventured out into the world. I hope some writing and maybe a new album will encourage her to get back out there and remind everyone what a brilliant person she is.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by michelej1

No, it's not absurd. But Lindsey has rejected that language. It sounded overblown when Stevie said it and, Mick is her twin and followed suit. It seems quite natural to me that Lindsey would say that's not exactly how he would describe it.

It doesn't mean that anyone feels that you can't be concerned for an addict. That's not what's at issue here. It's Lindsey describing his own feelings, as opposed to Mick and Stevie's drama. As you know, Lindsey loves to wax sentimental on his own and will do so on many subjects concerning himself and Stevie. As you say, he "plays that card" if he wants. But if he chooses to express himself differently on this subject, it makes sense to me, because I think it's more in keeping with how he felt. And I thought Stevie's comments were princessy.

It doesn't mean he doesn't care for her and has not felt concern for her. I think he felt concern for her and Mick at the time, but I also think they were driving him crazy. And he left for self-preservation. Boo hoo I didn't want to see the love of my life die. Give me a break. When you are going through something, even with people you love very much, sometimes you get so frustrated with their behavior that you just think in terms of getting away from it. You don't think in terms of "what if I might lose them." I know someone whose son robbed her for drugs and she was devastated and wanted nothing more to do with him. When he died, she never stopped mourning the loss and the possessions he stole seemed like the least important thing in the world. But that was in the face of his actual death. When he took the things, she wanted to kill him herself.

If Lindsey says he wasn't feeling that fear for Stevie in 1987, it sounds perfectly logical to me and nothing like denial. People don't live in a fairy bubble all the time. His comments sound closer to truth than denial to me, which doesn't mean he won't say very high, romantic and overblown things about Stevie next month. I'm sure he will.

Michele

Yeah, I really get all that. I still think its absurd to think its absurd of Lindsey to have that emotion. One day when my addict brother dies, I'm sure my anger at him and his addiction will lessen, but as angry as I am now and as hard as I have to be in order not to play enabler, I'm still - everyday- frightened he might die. Or maybe more frightened that that day will be today.

So, I don't care what year it was or what day even it was or even if he doesn't want to admit it 25 years later in an interview. Lindsey was certainly afraid/frightened about Stevie dying. And, a lot of other people were too.

[Desiree]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

Yeah, I really get all that. I still think its absurd to think its absurd of Lindsey to have that emotion. One day when my addict brother dies, I'm sure my anger at him and his addiction will lessen, but as angry as I am now and as hard as I have to be in order not to play enabler, I'm still - everyday- frightened he might die. Or maybe more frightened that that day will be today.

So, I don't care what year it was or what day even it was or even if he doesn't want to admit it 25 years later in an interview. Lindsey was certainly afraid/frightened about Stevie dying. And, a lot of other people were too.

Yep, yep, yep...all the way...you sound like someone who truly knows about dealing with and loving an addict...me too, so many emotions, mostly bad when it is at an end and you know it! And, the fear, yes, LB, you were scared ****less so just admit it, fool! You are human, right? I think LB was in just as much trouble as SN, too. Why they choose to play that down, I don't know, but he was just plain CRAZY at that point and it took years for him to pull himself together too! I try hard to like LB but sometimes it's hard because like Stevie, he says the stupidest crap sometimes! SN was a crazy DRUG ADDICT... LB was a CRAZY drug addict...there, done!

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

Wow. It's absurd to be frightened someone might die...and not just anyone, but someone you share a deep history with? I mean, regardless of animosities, I think that unless you have ice water running through your veins it would definitely be on the emotional front burner.

I don't think it's absurd for someone to be frightened another might die...but Stevie and Mick claim their behavior had Lindsey so frightened for their lives that he quit the band. THAT is absurd, especially since it was only recently offered as a reason.

I think Mick and Stevie are doing here what Mick says in the article each is prone to do: create drama in the absence of drama.

That's me. Someone could see it another way, obviously.

[MikeInNV]

For me it's a timing thing. Lindsey put up with all the craziness during the making of Tango. When he quit the band, just before they were ready to head out on tour, Stevie was in pretty good shape. I guess she was already on Klonopin, but at that point it was probably a reasonable dose. She looks and sounds great in all of the Tango promotion, videos, interviews, etc. I would think any fear he may have had would have subsided by that time.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by Desiree

Yep, yep, yep...all the way...you sound like someone who truly knows about dealing with and loving an addict...me too, so many emotions, mostly bad when it is at an end and you know it! And, the fear, yes, LB, you were scared ****less so just admit it, fool! You are human, right? I think LB was in just as much trouble as SN, too. Why they choose to play that down, I don't know, but he was just plain CRAZY at that point and it took years for him to pull himself together too! I try hard to like LB but sometimes it's hard because like Stevie, he says the stupidest crap sometimes! SN was a crazy DRUG ADDICT... LB was a CRAZY drug addict...there, done!

Yes, more than one, unfortunately. I am curious about the extent of the others' problems too & if there was rehab. Especially with Mick's new revelations about drinking.

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

I don't think it's absurd for someone to be frightened another might die...but Stevie and Mick claim their behavior had Lindsey so frightened for their lives that he quit the band. THAT is absurd, especially since it was only recently offered as a reason.

I think Mick and Stevie are doing here what Mick says in the article each is prone to do: create drama in the absence of drama.

That's me. Someone could see it another way, obviously.

Oh! Ha! Yeah ok - I see what you mean. I think its rooted in truth, with a heavy dose of embellishment.

Originally Posted by MikeInNV

For me it's a timing thing. Lindsey put up with all the craziness during the making of Tango. When he quit the band, just before they were ready to head out on tour, Stevie was in pretty good shape. I guess she was already on Klonopin, but at that point it was probably a reasonable dose. She looks and sounds great in all of the Tango promotion, videos, interviews, etc. I would think any fear he may have had would have subsided by that time.

Great point! I didn't think of that. She was seemingly on an upswing. Although her attacking him may have given him reason to think otherwise.

[vivfox]

This thread is a fun read I am enjoying immensely.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

I don't think it's absurd for someone to be frightened another might die...but Stevie and Mick claim their behavior had Lindsey so frightened for their lives that he quit the band. THAT is absurd, especially since it was only recently offered as a reason.

Right. Just as this isn't the first time they claim they've made up, this isn't the first time they've discussed his reasons for leaving in 1987. In 1997, Mick said that Lindsey was scared to be around him, Mick, because he thought the continued exposure might make Lindsey go into drug (or alcohol) overdrive too. That's what Lindsey was telling Mick when they first reunited and it's in line what Lindsey is himself saying about his feelings NOW.

Lindsey is not shy about talking about his feelings for Stevie. Even in 1997 he was discussing how she was so much like the girl he used to live with and loving things up. He's not afraid to expose softness or affection. In fact, if anything he gets a little too sappy (i.e. the crying in DR -- and actually, the way he choked up over John, I guess he was afraid John might die at one point too -- although I guess that didn't make him leave the band).

He's not coy or careful about putting his heart on his sleeve, if he feels like it. If he'd actually felt he left the band because he was scared she was going to die, I think he'd have said it. Then and now.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

So, I don't care what year it was or what day even it was or even if he doesn't want to admit it 25 years later in an interview. Lindsey was certainly afraid/frightened about Stevie dying. And, a lot of other people were too.

I don't think a lot of people were scared about Stevie dying in 1987. As Klonopin got a bigger grip on her, then I think that changed. But with the cocaine and her Betty Ford stint, I don't think they thought things were near the fatal point. I think they just thought she was out of control as far as being rational or reliable, professionally.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Ulpian

To some extent I was saddened to hear that Christine is lonely. However, she is to some extent the author of her own misfortune by making the drastic changes she made in '98 and, if some reports are to be believed, then retreated behind her gates and rarely ventured out into the world.

I don't know who the comment came from (my money is on Mick), but I think it answers our question of whether that ring she had on her left hand was a wedding ring. Sounds like it wasn't.

Michele

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I don't think a lot of people were scared about Stevie dying in 1987. As Klonopin got a bigger grip on her, then I think that changed. But with the cocaine and her Betty Ford stint, I don't think they thought things were near the fatal point. I think they just thought she was out of control as far as being rational or reliable, professionally.

Michele

Yeah, that is true, I guess.

Well, it wouldn't be the first time they had their dates wrong.

[Ulpian]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I don't know who the comment came from (my money is on Mick), but I think it answers our question of whether that ring she had on her left hand was a wedding ring. Sounds like it wasn't.

Michele

" Christine McVie went on to date the Beach Boy Dennis Wilson — another renowned sybarite — before eventually burning out in the late 1990s, selling her LA mansion and moving to a Kent farmhouse to lead a “solitary life.” This, she told me, has recently become “rather lonely — apart from my brother and sister-in-law I still don’t know anyone down here.” "

That's Christine saying it herself, though, right?

I don't want to be critical, but 15 years is long enough to get to know other people if you make the effort. If you don't - and by all we have read post-'97 Christine has intentionally kept to herself - it's difficult for others to feel too sympathetic when you end up feeling lonely.

I love her, but I think she maybe needs to snap out of this hermit thing and find a man / friends / a band to keep her busy

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Ulpian

That's Christine saying it herself, though, right?

Yes, you're right.

Originally Posted by Ulpian

I don't want to be critical, but 15 years is long enough to get to know other people if you make the effort. If you don't - and by all we have read post-'97 Christine has intentionally kept to herself - it's difficult for others to feel too sympathetic when you end up feeling lonely.

I love her, but I think she maybe needs to snap out of this hermit thing and find a man / friends / a band to keep her busy

I thought she was surrounded by not only her brother, but nieces and nephews and their offspring visiting all the time. I know she probably felt when her dad died, she hadn't spent the time with him that she should have and she didn't want that to happen with the rest of the family, but find a happy medium.

Well, she has that place in London still, I imagine. Maybe when she goes there she can reconnect with people. But yes, after 2 years, if I found myself feeling lonely, I definitely would have changed up how much time I spent there. Go there when you want to unplug, but don't live there full time.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Yes, you're right.



I thought she was surrounded by not only her brother, but nieces and nephews and their offspring visiting all the time. I know she probably felt when her dad died, she hadn't spent the time with him that she should have and she didn't want that to happen with the rest of the family, but find a happy medium.

Well, she has that place in London still, I imagine. Maybe when she goes there she can reconnect with people. But yes, after 2 years, if I found myself feeling lonely, I definitely would have changed up how much time I spent there. Go there when you want to unplug, but don't live there full time.

Michele

If you're lonely... write some music!!