Lindsey Buckingham & Rick Vito: Comparing Styles

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by David

Somebody fed you quite a meal, there, ghost_tracker!

Diatonic just means using major & minor but not chromatic scales. In that sense, it describes just about all mainstream rock: Lindsey, Rick, Stevie, even Weird Al Yankovic.

it means he plays in the key... thank God!!!

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by Ghost_Tracker

But Lindsey IS a guitarist, "through-and-through." He claimed he "had his guitar around his neck 24/7" - Stevie's joked in interviews and stuff that he pretty much slept with the damn thing and I think that's pretty much true. So in other words, it's VERY much a part of his "identity" - and a big part of how he views himself, etc. He "gets" the music, in a very deep way. Not putting Rick Vito down but he's basically a "hired gun" whereas Lindsey's a "professional gunslinger" - he's an artist, Rick Vito's (essentially) a technical guy. (Obviously I'm kinda generalizing.)
Sound about right???

No. I think "professional gunslinger" in reference to Lindsey is about the same as using the term "philanthropic" regarding Slobodan Milosevic. Couldn't be FURTHER from the truth. "Gunslinger"? Lindsey? HA! If anything Lindsey is the poster-boy for being "Anti-gunslinger". To be a guitar "gunslinger", one needs to be spontaneous...that is definitely not a Lindsey trait.

And, as far as "had his guitar around his neck 24/7"...that is a phrase you can probably use to describe just about any full-time professional guitarist. So, Lindsey is not unique in that sense.

Furthermore, to use the trite and cliche' phrase "just a hired gun" regarding Rick Vito is really just admitting that you don't know enough about Rick Vito to really comment.

[jbrownsjr]

I think that once you reach a level of what these two have reached you have achieved many goals along with many dollars.

LB... Great acoustic feel for FMac songs (Second Hand News, IDWK, Chain, Book of Love etc.)
as for lead guitar, he was great at intensity and making the song climax live. I think he is an idiot in the press.

Rick to me was not as unique, maybe because he was a great studio player. I did not like his stage presence nor his goofy outfits. He looked like he blew out of Spandua Ballet (which i like btw). His lead guitar was much cleaner than LB. He was no spaz. I loved BTM and the outakes that you all have posted here. I also thought as a whole FM was incredible on BTM tour. But I still had the sense that Rick's spot felt a little uninspired on the non-blues FM. The blues jams they had were great.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by TomBanks147

Yeah, Rick is probably on paper the better guitarist. He does exactly that, plays anything someone hands him. He certainly can't use the alternating bass technique in the same way Lindsey can but for blues etc he has the upper hand.

My problem with the guy is that hes to robotic and textbook, if you know what I mean. He doesn't use music to be artistic or push the boat out like Lindsey does, he just kind of, Plays.

"Robotic"? Rick Vito? Again, I think you're using the right description for the wrong guy...if you'd said that about Lindsey, I'd be chiming in with a "hallelujah, brother". Rick is anything BUT "robotic".

Look, there's really not any other rock guitarist who uses the Travis picking technique...so, it is really unfair to judge someone's technique that generally by saying "...he certainly can't use the alternating bass technique..." How the F*** do you know he "can't"? I've heard him...yes, he can, when it fits what he wants to accomplish. But, he certainly isn't LIMITED to playing in that fashion. Seems to me that Lindsey's chosen technique is more limiting than it is open & freeing.

Originally Posted by TomBanks147

Like I said I only see him as a replacement rather than a member in his own right. I say he got more out of Fleetwood Mac than they got out of him because, he was only in the band for three years. Wrote 3 songs, 2 of which where Co-wrote. He was the wrong man for the band and he tried to be someone he's not. I think he needed fleetwood mac but not vise visa.

I think this is a load of crap. "Replacement"...what the f*** was Lindsey in 1975? Yep, a f***ing replacement for Bob Welch. And, if you think about it, unless we're talking about Peter Green or Jeremy Spencer, ANY discussion of Fleetwood Mac guitarists that isn't about those two (or Danny Kirwan, who didn't replace anybody, he was just added) is about "replacements".

It's not Rick's fault that the band left his better material in the can. I think they were too friggin' afraid that a Fleetwood Mac guitarist other than Peter Green or Lindsey Buckingham would & could actually have a "hit" song. Both "Got No Home" & "Intuition" had "radio airplay" all over them, but nope, didn't get on the album.

Originally Posted by TomBanks147

People on this forum say that Fleetwood mac are a nostilga band now (which is TOTALLY untrue) in actually fact the only time they have ever been one was durring the tango tour, and this was down to Mr Vito.

Again, a pile of the stinky stuff. The band is living off of past glories...why else would they still pack their set with 30 year old songs and ignore their latest (and, if you'd buy into their pre-tour/album hype, their "greatest") material? And, The Dance was earth-shatteringly ground breaking? Once the Rumours crew reunited, it was the death-knell for the band. Nostalgia-city...stick a fork in 'em, they're done. Christine saw it coming...bailed when the bailing was good. Say You Will is exactly what it was, two solo albums molded together with a common rhythm section, there's barely continuity and the missing third songwriter is conspicuous in her absence.

Sure, hindsight is 20/20, but since the end of the Tusk tour, Fleetwood Mac has made the most idiotic decisions as far as band direction and marketing...they've only been successful IN SPITE of those decisions, not BECAUSE of them.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Furthermore, to use the trite and cliche' phrase "just a hired gun" regarding Rick Vito is really just admitting that you don't know enough about Rick Vito to really comment.

To be fair, though, it's not like he got a great representation of his actual abilities during his tenure with the band. If all I knew of Rick were his contributions from "Hits" to "The Chain," I don't think I'd be too impressed, either. I think the band was too ambitious with BTM. That's why I suggested doing the "retro" album, as there was clearly a retro vibe going throughout the band, and a standard pop-rock album. I think the retro stuff was a distraction on TOSOTM and on BTM. I think where some of us get frustrated is that there was potential that was just never realized. For the record, I think Rick's "Intuition" could have been the biggest hit of the era. It had the feel and the sound of a great Fleetwood Mac radio classic.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by chiliD

" The Dance was earth-shatteringly ground breaking? Once the Rumours crew reunited, it was the death-knell for the band. Nostalgia-city...stick a fork in 'em, they're done. Christine saw it coming...bailed when the bailing was good. Say You Will is exactly what it was, two solo albums molded together with a common rhythm section, there's barely continuity and the missing third songwriter is conspicuous in her absence.

But they sounded damn good on The Dance, at least! I was hoping "The Dance" wouldn't be the end. The fact they are making new music, and probably going to record another album takes them out of Nostalgia City, for me at least. I think their tour was a nostalgia fest, but Say You Will certainly was not. As much as I love Say You Will, I would agree it's a jumbled mess and it doesn't feel like a Fleetwood Mac album to me. Except for just a few tunes.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I think where some of us get frustrated is that there was potential that was just never realized. For the record, I think Rick's "Intuition" could have been the biggest hit of the era. It had the feel and the sound of a great Fleetwood Mac radio classic.

Amen. "Got No Home" would've been another.

[DavidMn]

Here's my take. I prefer Lindsey, but it's just a personal preference. I dont know nearly enough about the technical aspects of music to make that judgement.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

As much as I love Say You Will, I would agree it's a jumbled mess and it doesn't feel like a Fleetwood Mac album to me. Except for just a few tunes.

And as many of us have said, since SYW came out, it would have been a MUCH better album(read:balanced) with some of Chris' songs from ITM. It's been done a hundred times, but, here I go:

WTWCT
Friend
Thrown Down
Peacekeeper
Northern Star
Miranda
You Are
Say You Will
Steal Your Heart Away
Destiny Rules
Calumny
Say Goodbye

That's only 12 songs, which is PLENTY long, IMO. Okay, so I only gave Stevie 3 songs, and Lindsey got 5. I was trying to go 4 songs for each, to be fair, BUT, I went with the songs that I thought sounded most like FM songs.

[madformac]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

But they sounded damn good on The Dance, at least! I was hoping "The Dance" wouldn't be the end. The fact they are making new music, and probably going to record another album takes them out of Nostalgia City, for me at least. I think their tour was a nostalgia fest, but Say You Will certainly was not. As much as I love Say You Will, I would agree it's a jumbled mess and it doesn't feel like a Fleetwood Mac album to me. Except for just a few tunes.

Yeah but I'm not holding my breath guessing what they are gonna play on the 30th Anniversary of Rumours tour next year.

Now if they (Are you listening Mick?) promoted it as a Fleetwood Mac 40th Anniversary tour and dropped in some unexpected numbers AND had guest artists such as Christine, Bob Welch, Bob Weston, Jeremy Spencer, Rick Vito, Billy Burnette and Peter Green turn up and play the odd song at the odd venue that suited them it would be great. It would be a nostalgia tour yes but a more unpredictable and fun one. The biggest live piss off I have with this band is they don't really mix up the set list. Look at the Rolling Stones. 400 songs to be rehearsed for the tour. Every night they change it and throw unexpected numbers in.

As for SYW the only song that I thought sounded like a Mac number was Destiny Rules. Signature Nicks voice, McVie bass and LB guitars. Everything else, while there are good numbers in the album, just sounded like two solo records.

[David]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

I did not like his stage presence nor his goofy outfits.

We should discuss that because appearance is always relevant. As John Simon has noted, what happens on stage or screen is a gesamptkunstwerk, a complete aesthetic experience (part of the reason I can't stomach Fleetwood Mac any more--they all look gristly & spent).

Why did Rick dress like the Cowboy in Wonderland? When I saw him up there in his sequins & pink & black card suits, the Elton John song "Roy Rogers Is Riding Tonight" went through my head.

Most bizarre, & most disturbing, to channel a Gene Autry Ringling Bros. clown at a Fleetwood Mac concert. It's almost as bad as when Christine channeled Camille Paglia on the 1997 reunion tour.

[David]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

And as many of us have said, since SYW came out, it would have been a MUCH better album(read:balanced) with some of Chris' songs from ITM.

How, praytell, would throwing Christine songs on the album have improved the other tracks? By osmosis?

If you take "Say You Will" & add Christine songs, what you get is "Say You Will" + Christine songs.

It's just basic mathematics.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by David

How, praytell, would throwing Christine songs on the album have improved the other tracks? By osmosis?

Maybe by pushing the ****tier songs OFF the record. That's not rocket science, David.

[David]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Amen. "Got No Home" would've been another.

Biggest hit of the era, I have no idea. That's probably like voting for Fattest Falstaff down at Anorexics Central.

Nothing from Fleetwood Mac would have been a big hit in 1990. Absolutely nothing. It doesn't make a bit of difference what was left in the can & what was included. Whatever was added or used to substitute would have had Greg Ladanyi all over it anyway, & as if that isn't bad enough, Greg Ladanyi ain't even the reason that millions of Americans didn't buy or like the album. Fleetwood Mac was nothing in the United States in 1990--& MacDougall don't start nattering on about the "lengthy, well-attended" tour & all that kabob. That proves nothing when it comes to albums & hits & airplay & all that. Fleetwood Muck was nothing in 1990, they were perilously close to nothing in 1987, & they're nothing today.

Except, obviously, for being a concert draw.

[David]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

Maybe by pushing the ****tier songs OFF the record. That's not rocket science, David.

Well, sure, you can always push the ****tier songs off the record. I'm not sure that, all in all, that really still makes a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Or, in the case of Tom O'Horgan's "Futz"--a slick farce out of a sow's rear.