Much of US favors Bush impeachment: poll

[Chrislit18]

I guess you are right
we shouldnt have invaded, because the ends do not really justify the means -the one thing i learned in world civ-

so im gonna stop posting after this, cause im just gonna get jumped on

but i still stand by my 'do not impeach' statement no matter what anyone says

[JazmenFlowers]

I was going to add my thoughts, but JWS has done a good job of saying what I would've said.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Finally, this President was elected again by a rather large majority even if the voting fraud took place. In other words the people spoke and they wanted another term with W. I hate that, but it is what it is.

STATUS CANDIDATE VOTE VOTE % EV
Bush
(Incumbent)
62,040,606 51% 286
Kerry
59,028,109 48% 252
Nader
411,304 1% 0

In my opinion, 51% is not a large majority. Nearly half of the country voted against him. If you take the fraud into account in Ohio alone, the results could be completely opposite. I'm still not sure Kerry lost.

[gldstwmn]

Oh I'm not yelling at you at all. Please don't take it that way. It's just that this administration never fails to continue to try to link Saddam and 9/11 and every time I see someone taking the bait, I feel compelled to point out that this is not the case.
Also if you like history, there are a lot of smart, engaging people around here that like to talk about it. Sometimes we play a little rough. Please don't be put off by it.

[Chrislit18]

I think it was my 7th grade social studies teacher who said this [sorry have to get this out] but the countries really dont like turning over leadership during a war. actually, it was her

I agree with you glddstwmn, Ohio might have been wrong in thier results, so for all we know Kerry did win the population vote. I guess wll never know for sure though

[Chrislit18]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Oh I'm not yelling at you at all. Please don't take it that way. It's just that this administration never fails to continue to try to link Saddam and 9/11 and every time I see someone taking the bait, I feel compelled to point out that this is not the case.
Also if you like history, there are a lot of smart, engaging people around here that like to talk about it. Sometimes we play a little rough. Please don't be put off by it.

oh its ok.
id rather be 'harrassed' by you ledgies than the kids on my bus about my views on stuff like that, at least most of you are adults who know what youre talking about, not stupid teenagers
i got the saddam/9-11 thing from my dad...*what a loser*....

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

STATUS CANDIDATE VOTE VOTE % EV
Bush
(Incumbent)
62,040,606 51% 286
Kerry
59,028,109 48% 252
Nader
411,304 1% 0

In my opinion, 51% is not a large majority. Nearly half of the country voted agaisnt him. If you take the fraud into account in Ohio alone, the results could be completely opposite. I'm still not sure Kerry lost.

I agree with that, though I suggest 3,000,000+ votes is significant.

But my point was, though ill made - that given the mess ups in the administration and the general ill feeling in the country toward W, the election was Kerry's to lose. I think Kerry lost it because he did not present a a solid campaign that wildly differed from W and Kerry let Fox tear him apart while presenting no vehement defense.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Chrislit18

I guess you are right
we shouldnt have invaded, because the ends do not really justify the means -the one thing i learned in world civ-

so im gonna stop posting after this, cause im just gonna get jumped on

but i still stand by my 'do not impeach' statement no matter what anyone says

You post away all you want. You are entitled to your opinion!

I get that people can be pointed, but their posts usually are enlightening.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Chrislit18

I agree with you glddstwmn, Ohio might have been wrong in thier results, so for all we know Kerry did win the population vote. I guess wll never know for sure though

If Kerry had won in Ohio, he would have won the electoral vote.

[strandinthewind]

^^^^

U.S. President -- Ohio
Updated 11/24/04 1:59 AM ET
Precincts:100% Incumbent* declared winner

Candidates Votes %

George W. Bush * (R) 2,796,147 51
John F. Kerry (D) 2,659,664 49
Other 25,945 0

_________________________________________________

Interestingly, R's won almost every other election in Ohio on that day according to http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/elections/2004/oh/ --

For those interested in the fraud claims - go to:

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2005/08/0080696

http://freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1559

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/sto...lection_stolen

for some general insight.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

If Kerry had won in Ohio, he would have won the electoral vote.

kerry did win ohio

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

^^^^

U.S. President -- Ohio
Updated 11/24/04 1:59 AM ET
Precincts:100% Incumbent* declared winner

Candidates Votes %

George W. Bush * (R) 2,796,147 51
John F. Kerry (D) 2,659,664 49
Other 25,945 0

_________________________________________________

Interestingly, R's won almost every other election in Ohio on that day according to http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/elections/2004/oh/ --

For those interested in the fraud claims - go to:

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2005/08/0080696

http://freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1559

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/sto...lection_stolen

for some general insight.

read this book: http://www.amazon.com/What-Happened-.../dp/1595580697

ken blackwell is a ****ing crook. i'll mail my copy of that book to anyone who wants to read it.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by carrie721

kerry did win ohio



read this book: http://www.amazon.com/What-Happened-.../dp/1595580697

ken blackwell is a ****ing crook. i'll mail my copy of that book to anyone who wants to read it.

Oh honey, in my heart I know he won it. And believe me, there was much debate about Ohio on this board after this election. I know all about Mr. Blackwell.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Oh honey, in my heart I know he won it. And believe me, there was much debate about Ohio on this board after this election. I know all about Mr. Blackwell.

he is disgusting. to read that book 2 years after the election, after witnessing how much that stolen election has cost this country, it makes me ill. i don't contribute much to these political threads b/c it upsets me so much, but this issue is just too close to home.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I don't think Cheney made any significant amount of money off the war

Oh yes, that's right. He deferred his compensation from Haliburton while he was vice president.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Oh yes, that's right. He deferred his compensation from Haliburton while he was vice president.

I think it is more than that. But, I do not have time to look it up right now.

On edit - if he is giving the stock option proceeds to charity, then he really has no significant ties to halliburton other than his deffered compensation, which is like $250,000 a year, which is nothing to a man as rich as he is and he certainly could have found an easier way to make much more without invading an entire country

Of course, that assumes the here and now and part of the compensation could have occurred un the 90's and the work is now - see my foil hat for an explanation

Anyway -

Cheney's Halliburton Ties Remain

WASHINGTON, Sept. 26, 2003
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(CBS/AP) A report by the Congressional Research Service undermines Vice President Dick Cheney's denial of a continuing relationship with Halliburton Co., the energy company he once led, Sen. Frank Lautenberg said Thursday.

The report says a public official's unexercised stock options and deferred salary fall within the definition of "retained ties" to his former company.

Cheney said Sunday on NBC that since becoming vice president, "I've severed all my ties with the company, gotten rid of all my financial interest. I have no financial interest in Halliburton of any kind and haven't had, now, for over three years."

Democrats pointed out that Cheney receives deferred compensation from Halliburton under an arrangement he made in 1998, and also retains stock options. He has pledged to give after-tax proceeds of the stock options to charity.

Cheney's aides defended the assertion on NBC, saying the financial arrangements do not constitute a tie to the company's business performance. They pointed out that Cheney took out a $15,000 insurance policy so he would collect the deferred payments over five years whether or not Halliburton remains in business.

Lautenberg, D-N.J., asked the Congressional Research Service to weigh in.
Without naming Cheney or Halliburton, the service reported that unexercised stock options and deferred salary "are among those benefits described by the Office of Government Ethics as 'retained ties' or 'linkages' to one's former employer."

Lautenberg said the report makes clear that Cheney does still have financial ties to Halliburton. "I ask the vice president to stop dodging the issue with legalese," Lautenberg said.

Cathie Martin, Cheney's spokeswoman, said the question is whether Cheney has any possible conflict of interest with Halliburton, "and the answer to that is, no."

Cheney was chief executive officer of Halliburton from 1995 through August 2000. The company's KBR subsidiary is the main government contractor working to restore Iraq's oil industry in an open-ended contract that was awarded without competitive bidding.

According to Cheney's 2001 financial disclosure report, the vice president's Halliburton benefits include three batches of stock options comprising 433,333 shares. He also has a 401(k) retirement account valued at between $1,001 and $15,000 dollars.

His deferred compensation account was valued at between $500,000 and $1 million, and generated income of $50,000 to $100,000.

In 2002, Cheney's total assets were valued at between $19.1 million and $86.4 million.

Earlier this month, a federal judge dismissed a lawsuit that accused Halliburton and Cheney of misleading investors by changing the way the company counted revenue from construction projects.

The lawsuit was filed last year by Judicial Watch, a conservative public interest group, on behalf of three small investors, who said the company tried to polish financial results by booking revenue on cost overruns before it was certain of getting paid.

Halliburton has contracts worth more than $1.7 billion for its work in Iraq, and it could make hundreds of millions more from a no-bid contract it was awarded by the Army Corps of Engineers, The Washington Post has reported.

According to The Post, while Cheney was defense secretary the Pentagon chose Halliburton subsidiary Brown & Root to study the cost effectiveness of outsourcing some military operations to private contractors. Based on the results of the study, the Pentagon hired Brown & Root to implement an outsourcing plan. Cheney became Halliburton CEO in 1995.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...le575356.shtml

also

Newsroom: Press Releases
Press Release of Senator Lautenberg
Lautenberg: congratulations Halliburton and Vice President Cheney!

Cheney's Halliburton Stock Options Soar to $9.2 Million

Thursday, September 15, 2005



WASHINGTON -- Senator Frank R. Lautenberg reiterated his call for Vice President Dick Cheney to forfeit his continuing financial interest in the Halliburton Co (HAL), in light of the surging value of Vice President Cheney's Halliburton holdings. Vice President Cheney continues to hold 433,333 Halliburton stock options, now worth $9,214,154.93 (at close yesterday.)
"As Halliburton's fortunes rise, so does the Vice President's, and that is wrong," said Senator Lautenberg. "Halliburton has already raked in more than $10 billion from the Bush-Cheney Administration for work in Iraq, and now they are being awarded some of the first Katrina contracts. It is unseemly for the Vice President to continue to benefit from this company at the same time his Administration funnels billions of dollars to it."

All of Vice President's Cheney's stock options are "in the money" for the first time in years. According to the Vice President's Federal Financial Disclosure forms, he holds the following Halliburton stock options:

100,000 shares at $54.5000 (vested), expire 12-03-07 33,333 shares at $28.1250 (vested), expire 12-02-08 300,000 shares at $39.5000 (vested), expire 12-02-09

The Vice President has attempted to fend off criticism by signing an agreement to donate the after-tax profits from these stock options to charities of his choice, and his lawyer has said he will not take any tax deduction for the donations. Valued at over $9 million, the Vice President could exercise his stock options for a substantial windfall, benefiting not only his designated charities, but also providing Halliburton with a tax deduction.

The Vice President also continues to receive "deferred salary" from Halliburton. While in office, he has received the following salary payments from Halliburton:

Deferred salary paid by Halliburton to Vice President Cheney in 2001: $205,298 Deferred salary paid by Halliburton to Vice President Cheney in 2002: $162,392 Deferred salary paid by Halliburton to Vice President Cheney in 2003: $178,437 Deferred salary paid by Halliburton to Vice President Cheney in 2004: $194,852

In September 2003, the Congressional Research Service (CRS) issued a memorandum to Senator Lautenberg concluding that holding stock options while in elective office does constitute a "financial interest" regardless of whether the holder of the options will donate proceeds to charities. CRS also found that receiving deferred compensation is a financial interest.

The CRS report can be downloaded at:

http://lautenberg.senate.gov/Report.pdf

The CRS findings contradict Vice President Cheney's puzzling view that he does not have a financial interest in Halliburton. On the September 14, 2003 edition of Meet the Press in response to questions regarding his relationship with Halliburton where he was employed as CEO for five years, from 1995 to 2000, Vice President Cheney said:

"And since I left Halliburton to become George Bush's vice president, I've severed all my ties with the company, gotten rid of all my financial interest. I have no financial interest in Halliburton of any kind and haven't had, now, for over three years."

http://lautenberg.senate.gov/newsroo....cfm?id=254548