What's good for Christine is bad for Lindsey?

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Then, when she gets there and makes the commitment despite what I am sure was pure hell for her after the addiction, LB says, I can't take it and he leaves. That is pretty horrible behavior on his part no matter what his excuse was and IMO shows a huge gesture on her part - she could have said see ya too and gone on to sell a million more solo records - yet she did not - she stuck it out. Yet, the LB supporters will NEVER EVER admit that Then, the tour sells out or at least very, very well without LB at the helm, which IMO is a HUGE insult to him if not irony esp. since the same cannot be said if Stevie had backed out instead of LB. So, the debate rages on . . .

You're delusional.

Now we're supposed to empathize and consider Lindsey's behavior to be bad because he chose not to tour at the exact time Stevie was fresh outta rehab and going through personal turmoil? Gimme a break. Ever heard of personal accountability? Sorry, if she was in such hell, tough tacos because she did it to herself. Let's not twist this around and make it a no-no on Lindsey's part to leave because Stevie wasn't feeling well. Boo hoo.

What no one seems to get is that, it seems, Lindsey couldn't take the drama anymore, he didn't think it was healthy, he was working with people he no longer knew, and he wanted out. Let's not compare his resignation from his "job" to a normal job and relationships we have with our co-workers; they're wildly different. I don't suppose that any of you work with drug addicts all the time, people who are bitter, and people just out of the booby hatch. I don't think you;d want to go trolloping around the country with those people every night for months, would you? But, some people just want to make Lindsey out to be the bad ass all of the time and don't want to make any of the others band members accountable for the behavior that they had that MADE the guy leave.

[strandinthewind]

Once again and listen carefully this time - I think it was bad of LB to leave because he had committed to the tour. I think Stevie was stronger in this regard because she did not let her personal problems get in the way of her professionalism. LB did. Spin it anyway you want, but those are the facts. Plus, I think you should turn that personal accountability venom on LB - after all he chose to record this record - no one made him. Then, he agreed to a tour that he backed out of

AND - I am in no way saying any of the members of FM were right or wrong for the drama. In fact, I think they all caused it. But, LB left. I am happy he is better for it and am happy it happened because The Dance would never have happened. I just think it was a crappy thing for him to do, that is all.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Are you going to sit there with a straight face and tell me that if La Nicks had bailed from the project altogether that it would have sold as well as it did PPUUUHHHLLLEEEZZZZEEEEE!!!!

Here again, I think it should have as LB and CM FAR outshine Stevie on this record. But, Stevie has a star power that neither Lb nor CM have and that is sad because none of the three are any better in my book. Yet, people just want to see Stevie more. I can't explain it. I just know it. I mean she was crowned the Queen of Rock and Roll and has been in the spotlight FAR more than anyone else in the band. This does not take away from the musical genius of LB who was responsible for the majority of the reason behind Stevie's FM hits or from CM's beautiful work.

As an aside, LB's production of LL was brilliant int he way he had the "three" seemingly calling to each other in the chorus of LL. Kudos to LB.

No, it wouldn't have sold as well initially. But I think that in general, the majority of people who bought the album weren't too ecstatic about her lackluster (and I'm being nice!!) material. And that's why none of it was really successful; even the best of them all, Seven Wonders, just barely hit the top twenty.

I'm not going to give the woman kudos for coming back for 10 days with a song she didn't write, another that was simply a jumble of ****, and another that sounded like it was recorded by a chipmunk with a throat cold; it all just showed a lack of effort on her part when it was presented next to the amazing material from Chris and Linds. The record company certainly knew it, as reflected in the singles that were chosen to be released.

And Stevie's popularity was waning with the public after it's release, anyways. (And even before that.)

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

No, it wouldn't have sold as well initially. But I think that in general, the majority of people who bought the album weren't too ecstatic about her lackluster (and I'm being nice!!) material. And that's why none of it was really successful; even the best of them all, Seven Wonders, just barely hit the top twenty.

I'm not going to give the woman kudos for coming back for 10 days with a song she didn't write, another that was simply a jumble of ****, and another that sounded like it was recorded by a chipmunk with a throat cold; it all just showed a lack of effort on her part when it was presented next to the amazing material from Chris and Linds. The record company certainly knew it, as reflected in the singles that were chosen to be released.

And Stevie's popularity was waning with the public after it's release, anyways. (And even before that.)

I guess we will never know for sure. But, I think it is highly unlikely the tour would have sold out the arenas it did without Stevie there. I mean, if you can believe Mick's book, FM readily put Stevie's voice all over TITN to make sure she was heard

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Once again and listen carefully this time - I think it was bad of LB to leave because he had committed to the tour. I think Stevie was stronger in this regard because she did not let her personal problems get in the way of her professionalism. LB did. Spin it anyway you want, but those are the facts. Plus, I think you should turn that personal accountability venom on LB - after all he chose to record this record - no one made him. Then, he agreed to a tour that he backed out of

You know I love ya, you damn Chiffonhead. But...

Puhleaze. He did not commit. He did not sign any contracts. If he had, THEN he would've been committed. Do you honestly thinkt hat he signed them and then said no? Do you think Mick and the rest of the band would've gone for that? I think not, my dear Chiffonhead.

As for the personal problems and professionalism argument, I'll let Stevie's participation in the record speak for itself. But the argument really doesn't hold water because the situation so out of control that any normal person in that situation would've said goodbye. Like I said, instead of laying blame on Lindsey for doing the right and healthy thing, let's look at how the behaviors of the band led to it. It's easy to lay blame on the person who had the balls to quit, but it doesn't seem easy for you Stevie supporters to look at her and everyone elses part in it.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I guess we will never know for sure. But, I think it is highly unlikely the tour would have sold out the arenas it did without Stevie there. I mean, if you can believe Mick's book, FM readily put Stevie's voice all over TITN to make sure she was heard

No they didn't. They added her to a couple of songs very discreetly and buried her in the mix. If you read it carefully, Christine was rather pissed at Stevie for bringing that up and put her in her place (and rightfully so).

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

No they didn't. They added her to a couple of songs very discreetly and buried her in the mix. If you read it carefully, Christine was rather pissed at Stevie for bringing that up and put her in her place (and rightfully so).

But, then Stevie apologized and everything was fine - according to Mick's book which is the only source we have. I believe Mick said they happily put Stevie on the record.

[Cammie]

Hi Lis,
Thanks for adding a Christine McVie Ledge Thread!
Ms. Perfect is a well trained Musical Ledgend of exceptional
caliber! TITN is a Chris&Lindsey Masterpiece!!! Cudos!!!

Thanks for the Mojo article! Explains the problem "Perfectly"!!!

About TITN Tour...Stevie begged Lindsey to go out on this tour
and he crossed her... by saying NO, so she "tried to kill him"!
Christine always was the member "with her feet on the ground"!Sky

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

But, then Stevie apologized and everything was fine - according to Mick's book which is the only source we have. I believe Mick said they happily put Stevie on the record.

Remember, this is all from mick's perspective. He can't speak for how Christine or anyone else felt.

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Are you going to sit there with a straight face and tell me that if La Nicks had bailed from the project altogether that it would have sold as well as it did PPUUUHHHLLLEEEZZZZEEEEE!!!!

Yeah, I think that's undeniable. Doesn't make it right, but it's reality folks.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Since when is stating the facts silly Yet, the LB egoists refuse to acknowledge them and call people silly for stating them

Stating the fact ain't silly. Silly is trying to argue that Stevie was presumably giving up so much to spend 10 days in the studio for Tango and then tour for a couple of months.

[Merf]

Originally Posted by Cammie

About TITN Tour...Stevie begged Lindsey to go out on this tour
and he crossed her... by saying NO, so she "tried to kill him"!

In what alternate universe did this happen?

From what I remember of the "story," Stevie started screaming at him and he had his hands around her neck. She has been quoted saying that she said to Lindsey "if you kill me, my father and my brother will kill you" or something like that. He realized what he was doing and he backed off. I don't think Stevie tried to "kill him" and it's ludicrous to say that.

Stevie and Lindsey BOTH handled the situation very badly but Stevie did not try to kill him.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Are you going to sit there with a straight face and tell me that if La Nicks had bailed from the project altogether that it would have sold as well as it did PPUUUHHHLLLEEEZZZZEEEEE!!!!

Jason, Dissention makes an excellent point. Little Lies and Big Love were big hits. Seven Wonders did OK. Also, at the time I remember hearing Everywhere, Family Man, Mystified and Isn't It Midnight on the radio. A lot. I remember being surprised at Family Man's airplay. Seven Wonders is a forgotten song for most poeple. But you can't say that about Little Lies and Big Love.

In my ever-so-humble opinion, Tango would have been much better if Welcome to the Room and When I See You again were dropped, and You and I Part I were added. Then there would be no sucky songs in it at all.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by dissention

What no one seems to get is that, it seems, Lindsey couldn't take the drama anymore, he didn't think it was healthy, he was working with people he no longer knew, and he wanted out. Let's not compare his resignation from his "job" to a normal job and relationships we have with our co-workers; they're wildly different. ... But, some people just want to make Lindsey out to be the bad ass all of the time and don't want to make any of the others band members accountable for the behavior that they had that MADE the guy leave.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Lindsey has called leaving the band a survival move and I can totally see how it would come to that.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by Merf

Stevie and Lindsey BOTH handled the situation very badly but Stevie did not try to kill him.

She has said she wanted to kill him. It was in the heat of the moment, mind you.