Brett Tuggle Dishes the details to Rolling Stone

[mitzo]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Hmm...

So, you’re saying that the majority don’t want to hear from a particular person’s views on something and find it easier just to go into radio silence?

How ironic.

What I meant was that those who appear to support Stevie here are not necessarily worshipping her nor do they hate Lindsey etc. They just don't have much feeling about the firing.

[elle]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Hmm...

So, you’re saying that the majority don’t want to hear from a particular person’s views on something and find it easier just to go into radio silence?

How ironic.

i am saying that if Mitzo really sees only the stuff he says he does on The Ledge, it must mean that he has 80% of posters here blocked.

why is that ironic? it's his right to read whatever he wants. this is, after all, supposed to be an entertainment.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by elle

i am saying that if Mitzo really sees only the stuff he says he does on The Ledge, it must mean that he has 80% of posters here blocked.

why is that ironic? it's his right to read whatever he wants. this is, after all, supposed to be an entertainment.

I read it as you saying 80% of people around here have blocked those of us who are neutral about Lindsey’s firing. Which, you know, 4 out of 5...

If I read that wrong and that’s not what you meant, I apologize.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I read it as you saying 80% of people around here have blocked those of us who are neutral about Lindsey’s firing. Which, you know, 4 out of 5...

If I read that wrong and that’s not what you meant, I apologize.

totally not how I read her post. I read it as her saying that if someone isn't seeing all the comments about LB's firing, they must have blocked or muted those who've been commenting on it.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I take everything she said in 1994 with a pound of salt. The emotional floodgates were fully opened after eight years of being on a tranquilizer. Remember how the band scared her? (John was the only one who publicly said anything about it, and it was priceless.)

Still, their lack of support for her solo career and Mick not giving her Silver Springs for her solo compilation were complete BS. Mick appeared on TWH and her Red Rocks “concert” video, and WB had control over how that version of Silver Springs was released, not Mick, and she knew that. Stevie was free to record a new version of the song, which she also knew.

The real reason was probably because her management though staying in Fleetwood Mac without Christine or Lindsey would hurt her career, her brand. (I think she should have made Mick, John, Billy, and Rick the core of her solo band and billed as something like “Stevie Nicks featuring Fleetwood Mac” and she’d be the boss.)

OMG really?

Stevie played hardball and left the band after 1990. She came crawling back to the band when her solo career tanked. Street Angel went cardboard and she was playing theaters and the Ohio Fair. She also was touring on a bus....something she never did in her solo career before.
Why would you disbelieve what she is saying? She has always hinted how awkward her solo career was with the Mac. So she is being honest in how she believes they felt. Why do they need to compliment her and not vice versa? We heard the Mirage tour rehearsals where Lindsey was playing Edge of 17 and they even played Leather and Lace. Stevie even brought her solo songs into the Mac set. Is that NOT the biggest compliment? Or should they just bow their heads and keep telling her how wonderful she is over and over? Better yet....how about a bed of roses as she walks on stage.

$tevie needs to be honest. This outrage that came out of her throwing down threats to leave the band or to fire Lindsey were spawned by Buckingham/McVie. She refused to take part in a new Fleetwood Mac album. The band recorded something without her and it drove her crazy. The band did something for once without her blessing. How come Stevie never commented on how good the Buck/Vie album was. Lindsey should have went to one of her concerts on the 24k Gold tour and put a copy outside her dressing room door. Then Lindsey could have cried to the press how Stevie never played it and never praised his work outside the band

[Newzchspy]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

https://variety.com/2018/music/news/...it-1202977969/

“So why did Buckingham get forced out? Loeb & Loeb evidently decided the lawsuit was not the place to go there, even as they attempt to methodically knock down all the official explanations that Nicks, Fleetwood and the two McVies have offered up in interviews. But Buckingham did offer further theories or clues in an interview published by Rolling Stone Wednesday.”

So, the WHY wasn’t actually addressed in the lawsuit and all we have is our own theories.

Lindsey's lawsuit says it all and does so very well. Let's be clear that Fleetwood Mac is not the same without !Lindsey. No disrespect to Neil and Mike, but they are NOT Lindsey. This one quote from Variety sums it up for me: " After Buckingham’s departure from Fleetwood Mac in 1987, the Band’s fortunes and popularity declined precipitously.” The lawsuit is not a big fan of the Dave Mason/Billy Burnette/Bekka Bramlett years.".

Funny how the article mentions one band mate willing to replace an ill John McVie in 2015 with a session player. I can only think of one person willing to do that, but he beats to an entirely different drum. For him, it's always been about the $$, nothing more or less.

So, nearly three years out from MusiCares and hindsight being 20/20, who precipitated all of this? The answer is pretty obvious. She even admits, even now, that when the band is not touring that each member has very little communication with the other, if at all. If they do, it's through management. Remember though, in recent interviews, she is an independent woman, a feminist who can do it ALL by herself. Lindsey not needed. However, when one listen to her latest " non-hit" , the non-chart climber , it shows that clearly she can not . Dave G and Dave S are also clearly NOT Lindsey and poor Waddy can only do so much with interpretive guitar sessions. This whole fish has been rotting from the head down for three years now and we know who the head fish is.

[lovethemac1]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

You’re like the William Barr of the ledge....you’ll defend Stevie and the Mac at any and all costs, regardless of any amount of evidence that they’re sh*tty individuals.

^^ Amen......

[lovethemac1]

Originally Posted by John Run

I think the Brett interview provided further confirmation to what most of us already knew. It does show that Fleetwood Mac used semantics to frame their truth which had some significant factual omissions, and essentially everything that Lindsey said in public or to some individuals during his tour were factually correct.

Lindsey got fired, Stevie wanted him fired, the rest of the band went along with it for the paycheck. (Not anticipating they would have to pay him north of $10 million for not playing with them) As Brett said, the contracts were signed. One thing I can speak to and it is not an opinion, the suit was brilliantly written and boxed the defendant into a legal corner. Especially now knowing there were contracts to tour and that Lindsey was stating verifiable facts. No wonder the suit was settled in record time.

As I stated in a prior thread is it clear to me that Lindsey wants back. We can debate if it is the right thing to do, or if us as individuals would make the same choice, but Lindsey needs and wants to be part of this band. Which is more than one can say for Stevie.

Lindsey is a different person than he was in 1987 that is for sure. He has mellowed and become sentimental for the art and people that shaped him. The driving factor to come back is not the money or I think Kristen would be far more open to idea of a return. (Hell if you believe Celebrity Net Worth, Lindsey is the wealthiest member of Fleetwood Mac. CNW is not a demonstrably accurate source, but it gives you an idea that his financial situation is quite stable)

There are the same 2 or 3 posters who repeatedly twist themselves into physically and mentally impossible contortions to defend Stevie's role in this process or to maintain their anti-Buckingham positions, and it is futile to respond. Again, it is the same 2 or 3 people and some once respected posters are now nothing more than shadow puppets who enjoy seeing people react to their written gymnastics.

Stevie has cutoff communication with the rest of the band. Mick has reconnected with Lindsey. Most likely Christine and Lindsey have communicated as well. Brett specifically notes that John McVie didn't want the change. Mick has great survival instincts. He sees the trend.

One side note - Those of you think Brett burned a bridge, there are never bridges burned in this band. Just hot flames that surround the bridge and block it from view. If Lindsey comes back, Brett will be back.

I do have some cynical thoughts. Why is this all coming out now? Those of us who have been around a while, the similarities to 1996 are for sure prescient. We will see where it all ends up, but at the very least I think we will see some level of musical and / or public interaction among Lindsey, Mick, Christine, and John.

Sorry, that turned into a wide ranging stream of consciousness....

Fabulous post, thank you for summarizing the whole situation!

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by mitzo

What I meant was that those who appear to support Stevie here are not necessarily worshipping her nor do they hate Lindsey etc. They just don't have much feeling about the firing.

Yes, that's how I feel. Just because I still like FM doesn't mean I'm happy they kicked him out. Just like I didn't hate Lindsey when he quit the band. I like the band because I love their music, and that's not going to change over people coming and going. I'm going to love Go Your Own Way, Crystal, and As Long As You Follow no matter what the band does.

Saying that Stevie is having a pretty remarkable past few years is accurate, I think. But if someone hates her now, then my comments are elevated to "you must have a shrine to her." It couldn't just be that it's impressive to me she's been inducted twice in the RRHOF, or that she's got a concert playing in theaters for 2 nights, it's that I worship her. I would be equally as impressed if it were Christine or Lindsey that had those accomplishments, especially one on top of the other. And that would be awesome if those things did happen to them. I'll probably see Lindsey live again, depending on Covid, and I'm happy he has a new CD ready to be released. I'm holding him to his promise that he'll performed Countdown, too LOL! I still have a couple of great songs recorded on my cell phone from his concert 2 years ago, I was lucky to be so close.

[Jondalar]

Brett Tuggle, who played keyboards on tour with Fleetwood Mac since 1997, said he believed he was dropped after 21 years because Stevie Nicks thought he was too close to fired guitarist Lindsey Buckingham.

Tuggle was one of the supporting musicians when the band started work with Mike Campbell and Neil Finn after Nicks forced out Buckingham in 2018, but he was soon told his services weren’t required. This came after a run that also included work on both Nicks and Buckingham solo projects.

“I thought it was fine with everybody for a minute,” Tuggle told Rolling Stone in a new interview. “In the end, I think, Stevie thought I was more in Lindsey’s camp. But I tried to be Switzerland to all the principles in the Mac. I felt like that was my job.”

He recalled a time when Nicks seemed unhappy about his participation in Buckingham’s solo projects: “It came to a point where Stevie said, ‘You’re going to have to decide.’ I said, ‘You know, Stevie, I love playing with you. I support you. But Lindsey doesn’t have a band.’ She said, ‘I know he needs good people.’ She seemed to be okay with it when I went off to do Lindsey’s thing. But I think in the end, she looked at me a little as abandoning her and going over to Lindsey’s camp. It really wasn’t that. I wasn’t all pro-Lindsey. I’m pro all of them.”

Tuggle remembered the feeling during early rehearsals with Campbell and Finn. “We got down there and did a couple days of rehearsal, but something felt weird with Stevie," he noted. "I could tell something was off with her. I think she had already made up her mind about me being Lindsey’s guy. I think my fate was already sealed whether I was there or not.”

He said he was “really shocked” when he was called and told he was out of Fleetwood Mac. “I also realized that I was in the middle of the politics of Lindsey and Stevie and this band, and there was nothing I was going to be able to do about it," he explained. "I had become Lindsey’s guy and that was it, and I had to accept it.”

Tuggle argued that Fleetwood Mac needed Buckingham. “I think right now what you have is a great band with Neil and Mike, but it’s not the same band," he said. "You really don’t have the tension that makes that band so great, which is Stevie and Lindsey, ex-lovers and everything, looking each other in the eye and giving you chills from the emotional context. You won’t get that from this band. You’re going to get the Stevie Mac, the people she wants there. And it’s going to be a Mac Lite - no offense. You’re not going to get the full goods.”

He added that Buckingham "is really the one that is driving the ship. He’s the instigator and the architect of the music. … You’ve got to put out new stuff to remain viable even if it’s not going to sell 12 million copies. Lindsey is all about putting out new art.”

Tuggle said he told both Nicks and Mick Fleetwood that he hoped there was some form of “redemption for Lindsey some day." “I care about them all," he noted. "They’re all a big part of my life.”



Read More: Fleetwood Mac Got Caught Between Stevie Nicks, Lindsey Buckingham | https://ultimateclassicrock.com/flee...edium=referral

[FuzzyPlum]

Not sure this really needs another new thread does it? This is just surmising some of the key points from the RS interview.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

Not sure this really needs another new thread does it? This is just surmising some of the key points from the RS interview.

I was thinking the same. Redundant.

[David]

Tuggle remembered the feeling during early rehearsals with Campbell and Finn. “We got down there and did a couple days of rehearsal, but something felt weird with Stevie," he noted. "I could tell something was off with her. I think she had already made up her mind about me being Lindsey’s guy. I think my fate was already sealed whether I was there or not.”

What an awful feeling that must have been. Imagine standing in the rehearsal hall with your longtime colleagues and knowing that something under the surface was amiss. Have you ever been fired from a job and not been directly told until after several other people already knew? It’s that awful feeling of the ax about to fall but you haven’t been told it’s falling on your neck. It’s a rotten, rotten thing to do to people. Why allow Brett to attend a rehearsal if you’re only going to can him? Why not be decent and call him beforehand so that he can hang on to a shred of dignity and not appear in person? So that he isn’t standing in a room full of acquaintances getting ready to play, thinking that he’s supposed to be playing, too?

Tuggle said he told both Nicks and Mick Fleetwood that he hoped there was some form of “redemption for Lindsey some day." “I care about them all," he noted. "They’re all a big part of my life.”

I can understand caring for these people musically, but personally? How can you? Hypocrisy is what enrages me more than one-off cruelty or avarice. How can Mick and Stevie stand on a concert stage and lecture us about “taking care of one another” and being kind to everyone — and then shaft people close to them over and over? What kind of delusion drives that degree of disconnect? How can anyone preach kindness after every concert and in every interview and then shoot the mule out from under dozens of coworkers over the years? Where do they get off with the didacticism, painting themselves as enlightened moral beacons? Makes me sick! I say to Mick and Stevie and the others: Do whatever you want politically to people in that band, but shut up about how lovely you are. You’re a sleaze, just like the rest of us down here in the mud.

Meanwhile, though, Dreams is the no. 1 song in the country. Again. I feel as if all my dreams were coming true.

[David]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Most of the band did, all of the current frontline. It was an example of the band being more functional than it had become by 2015.

Have you already forgotten the months of work that John, Mick, Chris, and Lindsey did in 2017, which culminated in an actual “feature-length” album — followed by a tour? That year — for everyone except Stevie — was the acme of a functional Fleetwood Mac.

Honestly, trying to paint Lindsey as the cause of some sort of long-term stasis in that band is just silly. Maybe back in 1984–87, but not at all since he rejoined officially in 1997.

[David]

Originally Posted by bwboy

Saying that Stevie is having a pretty remarkable past few years is accurate, I think.

Yes, she is. Her career — her public profile in general — seems to have a second, a third, and a fourth wind. On that level, she’s really remarkable. On an artistic level, she can still pull a passionate vocal (like the latest JFK thing) or somehow tap into the current collective spirit. She has always managed to do this, even during the times (like the early 1990s) when she was the target of so much ridicule in the wider culture. She is a pop phoenix, and you should never say, “This, finally, is the end of Stevie Nicks.” She comes back to bite you. People — even other celebrities — who wrote her off in 1980 or 1985 or 1995 wind up looking like shortsighted fools. Remember the artist she was in those tiny Polaroids on the Rumours insert, in her black chiffon, when she figured out such a cool way to combine English gothic romanticism and 1960s psychedelic rock? How many people thought she’d still be a force in pop in 2020? Is she the artist I wish she were? Nope. Is she durable and beloved? Yep.