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  #46  
Old 10-21-2018, 03:03 AM
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HejiraNYC HejiraNYC is offline
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Originally Posted by KenshiMaster16 View Post
Mick is by far the worst offender in the band given how he's handled himself over the years, especially in the name of "business".

It's just Stevie's actions now that are in the limelight because we know now through direct and indirect sources that this was her doing and, probably by the sounds of it, unjustified. Doing terrible things in the past doesn't justify being vilified years later, especially if you've made amends or tried to. Do I honestly think Lindsey is still the drugged out abusive person he used to be? No, just like I don't think Mick Fleetwood is a coked, sketchy individual who'll screw over anybody for a quick buck anymore.

But to ignore a person's bad behavior because the other person 'did some bad stuff' is senseless and irresponsible and partly the reason they are behaving like this in the first place, because no one calls them out on it. And that goes for anybody in the band, not just Stevie or Mick.
Stop it. The so-called direct sources, if they exist, have not been cited by name. And the only truly direct account we have is from Lindsey's lawsuit, which was crafted to make a legal argument on his behalf and does not include the band's account of the situation. Until we hear directly from the other side, you don't know s***; everything else is speculation-taken-as-fact. Just saying so doesn't make it so.

So you are saying that people's appalling past behavior should just be merely forgotten and swept under the rug? I believe in forgiveness if the perpetrator is truly contrite and has made amends for their indiscretions... But it's a one-time offer only. Ongoing abusive and s****y behavior can evolve and manifest itself in different ways, e.g., emotional vs. physical. And it can be a poison that slowly leaches into the ether and makes everyone in the vicinity chronically ill. Sometimes it takes one seemingly minor incident to trigger an epiphany that the remedy to the chronic illness is to just remove the toxin. This stuff happens every day in marriages, friendships, jobs, etc. One day you just realize that it's time to head in a different direction because the old direction isn't working anymore. IF (and I mean IF) that is what happened to Fleetwood Mac, then we should just accept it and either move on with them or get off at the next stop. The lingering resentment, namecalling, obsession and misogyny are just pathetic. It's not a good look on anybody.
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  #47  
Old 10-21-2018, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by HejiraNYC View Post
Stop it. The so-called direct sources, if they exist, have not been cited by name. And the only truly direct account we have is from Lindsey's lawsuit, which was crafted to make a legal argument on his behalf
IF that is what happened to Fleetwood Mac, then we should just accept it and either move on with them or get off at the next stop. The lingering resentment, name calling, obsession and misogyny are just pathetic. It's not a good look on anybody.
Here here. If people no longer like Fleetwood Mac, what is the point of hanging around on The Ledge? If it's because of Lindsey, they should base themselves within the perimeters of his threads and act like the rest of the threads don't exist.

So good to have you back Ed. Hope you stay this time. What made you decide to come back?
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  #48  
Old 10-21-2018, 09:08 AM
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Here here. If people no longer like Fleetwood Mac, what is the point of hanging around on The Ledge? If it's because of Lindsey, they should base themselves within the perimeters of his threads and act like the rest of the threads don't exist.

So good to have you back Ed. Hope you stay this time. What made you decide to come back?

Amen to that! Treasure the music we have and move on.
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Old 10-21-2018, 09:50 AM
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  #49  
Old 10-21-2018, 10:12 AM
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What "appalling past behavior" are you talking about? Stevie has never made an abuse allegation against Lindsey, and actually defended Lindsey against Mick's account of the famous fight in his book.

You call out any accusations against Stevie as speculation and lacking direct evidence, and then you proceed to do exactly that, speculate about how Stevie is totally fed up with Lindsey and his abusive behavior. There's no issue with defaming Lindsey around here, but no criticism of the queen is allowed. And the sexism card is getting really old.

There's a big difference between speculating that Stevie had a role in ousting Lindsey from the band, when it's pretty clear she had the most to do with it, and painting Lindsey as an unmitigated abuser of women. To quote you, you don't know s*** about the emotional tenor of Stevie and Lindsey's relationship, and how it's evolved over the years.
Amen!

I'm sick to death that Lindsey is fair game, but any criticism of the Old Goat is misogyny. So I guess only men are allowed to be disliked? Surely a woman couldn't do anything that would inspire hate.

"Me too" has brought a new level of straight man hatred, especially among a select few here, who cry misogyny every minute of the day. Give me a break.
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  #50  
Old 10-21-2018, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by HomerMcvie View Post
Amen!

I'm sick to death that Lindsey is fair game, but any criticism of the Old Goat is misogyny. So I guess only men are allowed to be disliked? Surely a woman couldn't do anything that would inspire hate.

"Me too" has brought a new level of straight man hatred, especially among a select few here, who cry misogyny every minute of the day. Give me a break.

Completely agree with both of you.
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  #51  
Old 10-21-2018, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by vivfox View Post
Here here. If people no longer like Fleetwood Mac, what is the point of hanging around on The Ledge? If it's because of Lindsey, they should base themselves within the perimeters of his threads and act like the rest of the threads don't exist.

So good to have you back Ed. Hope you stay this time. What made you decide to come back?
Thank you. I don't know... I'm a glutton for punishment, I guess. There is only so much ignorance and B.S. you can withstand before you finally have to add your $0.02. That's me in a nutshell.
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  #52  
Old 10-21-2018, 01:01 PM
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Why wouldn't Stevie be happy with this article? She IS he most capable person to run the show so what is wrong with stating the obvious? I think that she should get credit where credit is due. Imho the insistance of Mick and Lindsey that FM is a "real" band who happens to have 2 female players in it got really old over the years. Mick is the worst offender in downplaying Stevies and Christines archivements and I'm glad that that seems to be over now (In 1990, Mick told an interviewer that during the sessions for BTM he learned that Christine was more than a pretty face. He had the nerve to actually say that).
Stevie isn't capable or running her life, much less a rock band.

And please, don't reduce this to a women vs. men thing. None of them have the musical knowledge and the ability or even the physical status to run a rock band.

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Originally Posted by HomerMcvie View Post
$he won't be happy being proclaimed the boss, especially after saying that $he wasn't...

And BTW, thanks for the new signature!

No, she won't be happy at all, after she swore she was not the boss. She didn't want to be blamed for Lindsey's firing. But we were right from day one...

Great signature!
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"I think what you would say is that there were factions within the band that had lost their perspective. What that did was to harm the 43-year legacy that we had worked so hard to build, and that legacy was really about rising above difficulties in order to fulfill one's higher truth and one's higher destiny."
- Lindsey Buckingham, May 11, 2018.
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  #53  
Old 10-21-2018, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by HomerMcvie View Post
Amen!

I'm sick to death that Lindsey is fair game, but any criticism of the Old Goat is misogyny. So I guess only men are allowed to be disliked? Surely a woman couldn't do anything that would inspire hate.

"Me too" has brought a new level of straight man hatred, especially among a select few here, who cry misogyny every minute of the day. Give me a break.
That's indeed what I'd call "ignorance"
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"I think what you would say is that there were factions within the band that had lost their perspective. What that did was to harm the 43-year legacy that we had worked so hard to build, and that legacy was really about rising above difficulties in order to fulfill one's higher truth and one's higher destiny."
- Lindsey Buckingham, May 11, 2018.
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  #54  
Old 10-21-2018, 01:19 PM
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I don't. And no, I don't think you're a twenty something.
That is far in the rear view mirror. I don't mind my age just the aches and pains.
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  #55  
Old 10-21-2018, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by HomerMcvie View Post
"Me too" has brought a new level of straight man hatred, especially among a select few here, who cry misogyny every minute of the day. Give me a break.
Spoken like a white straight man. Ignorance is bliss. You must be blissfully happy at all times.
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  #56  
Old 10-21-2018, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by HejiraNYC View Post
Stop it. The so-called direct sources, if they exist, have not been cited by name. And the only truly direct account we have is from Lindsey's lawsuit, which was crafted to make a legal argument on his behalf and does not include the band's account of the situation.
They're being used. The sources may like you well enough or not at all but they want you to get the story out there. 12 million dollars is a lot of money. A lot. Sources have a financial interest too. The whole thing is very one sided at this point.
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  #57  
Old 10-21-2018, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by HomerMcvie View Post

"Me too" has brought a new level of straight man hatred, especially among a select few here, who cry misogyny every minute of the day. Give me a break.
You can't even explain what the #metoo movement is. You're just whining because your male privilege has been challenged.
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  #58  
Old 10-21-2018, 01:33 PM
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Interesting that many still don't understand or don't want to understand the spark for many people's ire at Stevie.

No one disputes Lindsey was a sh*tty b*stard to her for a very, very long time. His issues over their breakup clouded his behavior towards her.

No one disputes that she put up with this for a long time..... because the band was successful and making lots of money and giving them lots of fame beyond what they could get solo, even Stevie, and because in her competitiveness she decided she would not be the one to blame for breaking up the band. So she gutted it out. This was HER choice. She could have walked away from FM anytime after her huge solo success.

Many refuse to accept that she was locked in a co-dependent relationship with Lindsey for years which means she participated in the love-hate thing and could be just as manipulative and yelling and fighting with him as he could with her. She just puts a better PR face on things to convince you how reasonable she is and he didn't play the PR game as well and didn't hide how 'prickly' he was (his wife's word).

He did indeed try to understand her point of view and accommodate her style more-- she talked a lot about them at one point in the late 90s or so sitting down and really hashing things out and her telling him things she'd never said before and him saying "I wish I'd know that" etc. and they seemed to reach a level of detente.

Despite the goggles her die-hard fans continue to wear when watching the DR documentary, he was not confrontational to her in any of the scenes we saw. Him telling her she's using poor grammar (she was) was NOT 'confrontational'. The discussion about the contract to mix songs was not confrontational on his part either; but it WAS on her part. Yet many choose not to see it. She brought in another person and double-teamed him to pressure him to sign a contract he correctly would not sign. She sicced her assistant on him, and then whined while he was on the phone and then followed him out of the room. Yet he was being mean to her.

Her manipulation of the band continued with the excuses not to record. And for a while to not tour, so much so that Mick went to the press and did whiny interviews about how FM was finished because of her.

Lindsey may or may not have pitched a battle about the choice of intro music at Musicares (isn't it funny that so many on here whine about 'name the sources!' when a story comes out that makes Stevie look bad, but when there's an unnamed source that says Lindsey threw a fit at Musicares, well by golly it must be true!) and he mimed dancing while Stevie spoke (well after Chris and Mick checked their watches, laughed, then waltzed together).

Rather than Stevie saying look, this is the final tour, and telling her manager to tell his manager that she had a list of conditions for the tour that she wanted from him or something that attempted to slog out one final tour she lays down an ultimatum to the band that he's out or she's out.

Given the speed at which the band immediately replaced Lindsey with one of Stevie's favorite guitarists and co-writers, Mick did not bother to act as band leader and try to keep the band together for their final tour but capitulated right away, and then was complicit in convincing John to support the decision and then saying it only takes a majority vote not a unanimous vote to kick someone out. The band agreed to kick out a member and bring in a specific new member within DAYS of that event.

The band proceeded to lie to their fans and the public about what happened, why it happened, and when it happened. They also perpetuated a lie when they promoted the tour with photos of the Rumours5 line up. Their bottom line has been so unabashedly about doing the tour and making the final money. There's been little to no attempt whatsoever to even pretend they have an artistic or legacy motivation for this tour. They know they are lying and they are unwilling to face up to it because NO ONE is doing any interviews to promote this tour at all. (They've surely been advised by lawyers anything they say can be brought up in the lawsuit).

They've resorted to tricks like having side players speak in interviews to say how great things are on tour.

While there's a lot of Stevie bashing, there's also been a lot of Mick bashing, and a lot of head-scratching about the role of the McVies. Many a Chris fan has found themselves disappointed and disillusioned about her response. And no one has denied Lindsey can be a royal pain in the arse and demanding and pouty. But there's a contingent that insists that Stevie has never been and is never any of these things. He has consistently made attempts to make amends and move forward. She has resisted.

She broke up the band with a sneaky move, and with Mick's enabling. Not Lindsey. There is clearly a lot more that may come out due to the lawsuit, and the band's very pointed response indicated they are ready for a fight. The fact that people find this interesting and are speculating on when and how that other shoe might drop and what might come out should not shock people. Yet somehow it does. If people want to ignore the fuss and put their heads down and accept whatever the band dishes out, fine.

If people don't like reading nasty comments, skip over them. It's not hard. This cuts both ways. Personal attacks from one poster to another are just not acceptable. Argue the point someone is making but don't attack the person. There has been too much of that on here for sure. But bashing a band member is not the same thing.
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Last edited by bombaysaffires : 10-21-2018 at 01:39 PM.
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  #59  
Old 10-21-2018, 01:51 PM
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In reading the Rolling Stone article and Lindsey's court filing the takeaways I had were:
I don't think LB and his wife live together 100% of the time.
This is a concerted attack by someone who is very, very practiced at being an emotional terrorist.
Stevie is a god damned saint for putting up with this sh!t for 40 years.
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Last edited by gldstwmn : 10-22-2018 at 10:24 AM.
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  #60  
Old 10-21-2018, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bombaysaffires View Post
see I"m not so sure. It rubs it right in Lindsey's face that she's the boss now, and everyone is soooooo happy and there's no fighting la la la la lah......
And *she* didn't have to say it, nor anyone in her camp
...

Nothing about this whole thing surprises me anymore.
exactly. it's an attempt at damage control. you know, he ruled with the iron fist, they ousted him, and now it's all happy happy happy democracy. except the guy slips somewhere in there and makes it clear it's actually not: everyone can chime in and say whatever but in the end it will be what SN and Mick say.
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