I just bought Peacekeeper

[sulamith]

Fine, I accept your apologies, BUT I think you are preaching to the wrong group. All you are gojng to do is piss people off and us long-time Ledgies are going to stick together.

If you go attacking one, expect the rest of us to jump to their defense.

We haven't been around here for the last few years exhausting every possible topic of conversation to have somebody like you come along now, when there is actually new music coming out, and rain on our parade, I tell ya!

Am I right? I think so.

Look, you're more than welcome here, but don't be a jerk.

-Sharon

[kenzo]

My opinion may be in the minority on this issue. Fine - but hopefully people will "defend" based on the merits of an argument and not on the number of previous posts by the arguer.

As far as being a "jerk", well, I realized that myself earlier in the thread and attempted to correct it in later posts. Lesson learned.

Hoping to continue rational discussion,
kenzo

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by ERigby818
I impulsively pre-ordered it anyway through the Penguin because I love the Penguin (and despise Mick's site) and wanted to support it in any way I can while pre-ordering

I completely agree!

For anyone here that will be ordering the SYW stuff online anyways, PLEASE use Marty's links and link to Amazon through The Penguin as that helps Marty with the costs of running this site and with all of the SYW talk that will most likely be going on soon (it looks like it's starting already!) we'll need all the bandwidth we can get! It really won't be a big difference to your ordering process, just come to the Penguin first and then link to Amazon from here and then put in your order, simple as that.

I really don't have time to argue on the downloading/file shring thing. I personally won't be doing it and I do respect Kenzo's opinion... BUT I can't see any "fan" being THAT bent out of shape over the file sharing issue unless he is maybe one of the "lurkers" from Mick's board that we know come here? I mean, I can't think of any other reason it would be so upsetting. Just a thought.

We all know THIS is the place to come for the REAL FM site/news etc. so the best way we can make The Penguin the most "preferrable alternative" to the (supossedly superior) "official" ones (if it isn't that already) is to join forces together (whatever our opinions are) and order through the links here to "strengthen" this site as THE place on the net for all things FM as much as possible (only applicable to those that will be ordering their stuff online anyways that is of course). Even that won't "take care" of the site costs and I admit that I don't know how all of that works but at least it would help Marty out in some way.

John

[kenzo]

Originally posted by wetcamelfood

...
I really don't have time to argue on the downloading/file shring thing. I personally won't be doing it and I do respect Kenzo's opinion... BUT I can't see any "fan" being THAT bent out of shape over the file sharing issue unless he is maybe one of the "lurkers" from Mick's board that we know come here? I mean, I can't think of any other reason it would be so upsetting. Just a thought.
...
John

Actually, I am "just" a fan. The reason it's upsetting, as you put it, is that I strongly oppose people taking what isn't theirs. It is amusing to be in the minority in a stealing vs. not stealing argument.

Snowy in Peabody tonight, by the way (I work in Bedford).

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by kenzo
Actually, I am "just" a fan. The reason it's upsetting, as you put it, is that I strongly oppose people taking what isn't theirs. It is amusing to be in the minority in a stealing vs. not stealing argument.

Snowy in Peabody tonight, by the way (I work in Bedford).

Hi Neighbor.

Yeah they said "5 inches of snow tops" for this area, it's gotta be more tha that now!

OK, fair enough, I just guessed wrong is all, if you say you're not a "Mick board person" then OK, I apologize for the "accusation". I still don't think I understand WHY "stealing" is upsetting to you if you are not involved in it though. For instance, if you're in a store and you see someone else stealing something and you have no personal allegiance to the store then does that upset you? Do you confront them? Do you tell the store clerk about it? If you do (or would in this hypothetical situation) then I apologize again, I'm just trying to understand it.

Do keep in mind though that I said "I" won't be doing the download thing either just as you obviously won't be too (though I personally have nothing against those here who are doing it).

Well, I still hope we can help Marty out by using the Amazon links here for our purchases (if they are to be bought through that avenue)!

John

[kenzo]

Originally posted by wetcamelfood
Hi Neighbor.
...
Well, I still hope we can help Marty out by using the Amazon links here for our purchases (if they are to be bought through that avenue)!

John

I think we can all agree on that... if anyone does plan on paying , link through the Penguin. I've done that a couple of times. (mmmm... warm fuzzy feeling... aarrrrggghhh [drool])

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally posted by kenzo
Actually, I am "just" a fan. The reason it's upsetting, as you put it, is that I strongly oppose people taking what isn't theirs. It is amusing to be in the minority in a stealing vs. not stealing argument.

Yeah well the point is you continue to ignore two things:

(a) people from UK, Australia, Europe etc need to have the file shared if they want it because it's not available to them. Any copyright/'income forgone' issue here is illogical because these international fans are inherently incapable of providing that income; and
(b) anyone who is an active member on the Ledge, who either mentioned file sharing or will actually reply to your posts calling them criminal and ethically depraved, is without exception the one who will buy at the very least the SYW CD, and more likely many many more of the same and related merchandise and copies thereof.

The only point you may have is one made towards one of the hundreds of silent non-members who still read the forums and doubtlessly download things, without being enough of a fan to actually commit to purchasing anything.

Well these people are not the ones who are going to reply to you, so all you are doing is barking obnoxiously up the wrong tree.

If there's any one of those points you don't understand and accept, feel free to prattle on; otherwise, get the message and ...put a sock in it.

[kenzo]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo

...
If there's any one of those points you don't understand and accept, feel free to prattle on...

I'm willing to accept that I may be the one that "doesn't understand".

Are you?

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally posted by kenzo
I'm willing to accept that I may be the one that "doesn't understand".

Are you?

A bit disappointing but no surprises - I see you have not understanded and have felt free to prattle on!

As you continue to do so, I'm afraid all you are accomplishing is the exhibition your ignorance.

Only someone who was not an involved member of the FM fan community would fail to realise they were all but making a fool of themselves to suggest the people who vocally contribute to this board are petty thieves before they are diehard fans of the band they love.

[Johnny Stew]

With all of the discussions about file-sharing in the news lately, and here on The Ledge, it reminds me of my teens and pre-teens, when I would sit in front of the radio for hours, trying to tape my favorite songs.

Eventually, when I was a little older and had some part-time jobs, I could afford to actually buy the tapes (and later, CDs), and the days of taping off the radio ended.

Nowadays, I look at file-sharing in a similar light. If I hear a song on the radio that I like, but it's unavailable to buy as a single, I'll download it from KaZaA or WinMX, until i'm later able to buy the album.
In some cases (such as Rufus Wainwright), I'll download a few songs from several different albums to get a feel for the artist's overall repertoire.
Trust me, this has resulted in the purchase of several albums that I never would have given the time of day to, had I not had a chance to hear the song thru downloading it.

I realize that, unfortunately not everyone does this. Anything in this world can be corrupted if people choose to take advantage of it.

And I'm not trying to justify my actions, or anyone else's, but I think the record companies should take a serious look at their practices.
They've made it all but impossible to find singles, because they want buyers to purchase the full-length album (where they make the most profit). However, the list price on single disc albums has become so high that many people simply can't afford it. Especially the teenagers that many of these albums are being marketed to.

I have read that it costs less than three dollars to manufacture a CD, which is why music clubs, like Columbia House and BMG, can offer discs for such a low price (sometimes just the cost of shipping)... surely the record companies can cut back their prices, and start making the music industry a little more consumer-friendly, while still enjoying a profit.



Johnny Stew

[Johnny Stew]

By the way, I wanted to mention that Amazon.com has adjusted the prices for both versions of 'Say You Will.'

The single disc version is now selling for $13.49 (29% off of the $18.98 list price), and the 2-disc limited edition version is now being offered for $24.99 (11% off of the $27.98 list price).

The price on the DVD-Audio version is still $18.98.

And yes, please do follow the links on The Penguin and on The Ledge, as it helps Marty to continue running this site.



Johnny Stew

[Alison]

Any one know how well it is selling right now on Amazon. I can't see it under best sellers like it one was the other day.

[Steve]

Steve

With all of the discussions about file-sharing in the news lately, and here on The Ledge, it reminds me of my teens and pre-teens, when I would sit in front of the radio for hours, trying to tape my favorite songs.

What a wonderful analogy. Thanks Johnny Stew, because I really think most of us feel the same way. I have read the postings for years and have posted during TISL and during the past several months. The Ledgies are articullate, caring, honest people who are just crazy about FM!! I must say, after reading the posts from Mick's site, I have found a greater appreciation for the "Ledgies". I love the critics (spicy conversations) such as from "Verna Carna(sp?) among others. A healthy debate is fabulous.

Please, don't give "Kenzo" the opportunity to stir you up. You're good people and have nothing to defend. The fact that he says he doesn't know who the Knight is makes me very suspsious( WB undercover dude)...oh, but then I fall into his crap.

Please just don't respond to him..I think that's what he wants.

Your Friend (and fellow Mac Fanatic!!!)

Steve

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
Yeah well the point is you continue to ignore two things:

(a) people from UK, Australia, Europe etc need to have the file shared if they want it because it's not available to them. Any copyright/'income forgone' issue here is illogical because these international fans are inherently incapable of providing that income; and

Exactly

Pip

[kenzo]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
A bit disappointing but no surprises - I see you have not understanded ...

As you continue to do so, I'm afraid all you are accomplishing is the exhibition your ignorance.

Only someone who was not an involved member of the FM fan community would fail to realise they were all but making a fool of themselves to suggest the people who vocally contribute to this board are petty thieves before they are diehard fans of the band they love.

I guess I haven't "understanded" and have accomplished the "exhibition your ignorance".

I was willing to be wrong, but since you're not, you must be right. I yield to your superior arguments and logic.

I've been a fan since 1970, and I'll continue to express my opinion just as everyone else here does. The only change I'm willing to make is to be more careful with incendiary personal remarks. That's uncalled for, and probably obfuscated the main point.

As far as diehard fans being petty thieves, well, the two descriptions are unrelated. Your enjoyment of the music has nothing to do with the morality of taking it unpaid for.