st louis 1979?

[David A]

Hello All

I have a question and a request if I may

I was on you tube and was looking at the FM Tusk Doc performance of the Chain, the one wear the crowd is like so crazy, I see that ppl have said this was in St Louis ? (1979) and I saw on a recent thread that it was posted, but I tried to down load but the links have expired. Can someone be so kind to re post or maybe point me in the right direction ? I really would love to have audio from that show , with that performance

Question, on the chain of that show, the crowd liek goes nuts, is that heard on the audio of it ? I mean, I think it would be cool if it was ), or is it like a soundboard, and if its a soundboard, how did that work in the day ? , does it JUST record what the band plays and sings and no crowd?

sorry for the dumb question, but im new to all this )

Thank you all

David


Daviles@charter.net

[LiamMcConville]

I'll upload the concert tonight if my Internet allows me to.

The recording is basically identical to what can be heard in the video, and the crowd does go nuts. It is soundboard, and usually when a show is recorded microphones are set up on either side of the stage that record audience/ambient noise so the recording sounds all the more authentic.

[David]

There's a lot of confusion about the term soundboard & what it means in relation to Fleetwood Mac concert recording. In the venue there is a PA system & a mixer. A guy stands at the mixer & controls the levels of every feed on the stage, whether it's vocal or instrument.

A true soundboard recording (of which the complete St. Louis is one) is the multitrack feed from that mixer, where everything is more or less mic'd directly, with audio cables. When you listen back to a tape of that soundboard mix, you will hear things a little differently from what you would have heard had you been in the audience at the concert. First of all, you'd hear the audience noise distantly, in the background, because the audience isn't mic'd into the mixer. Secondly, you'd hear varying levels because what the band needs to hear in its monitors (or what the sound tech needs to hear at the mixer) isn't always identical to what the audience needs to hear in the hall. This is true even in small venues.

Thirdly, you'd hear activity onstage that you wouldn't be able to hear in the audience. For example, if you listen to the few moments before Gold Dust Woman starts on the Baton Rouge 1978 soundboard tape, you'll hear a crackle followed by some buzzing. That's Lindsey's guitar tech (Ray, I guess) plugging in or unplugging an electric guitar from an amplifier. Ray has to hand Lindsey a different guitar for that song from what he was using on the song right before, Over My Head. The soundboard picks up the sound of the switcheroo because it is monitoring the activity onstage with audio cables.

A live album or a radio broadcast is generally made (at least in the old days) by microphone recording of the entire hall -- what you would hear, more or less, if you were in the audience. That's why when you listen to a concert broadcast on King Biscuit or Superstars Rock Concert Series, you can hear the crowd as if you were there. It is incorrect to refer to a radio broadcast of a live concert as a soundboard (even though nowadays live recordings mix microphone & soundboard technologies, which is called a matrix tape).

You can't hear the crowd roar on the soundboard recording of St. Louis but you can hear it roar on the concert video because that's a recording of the concert with microphones, placed strategically throughout the hall. The King Biscuit organization used to send around a van -- a mobile unit -- that would set up microphones & record the concerts, which would then be broadcast on the radio at a later date.

If you're in a band, you can tip your soundman & ask him to record the soundboard mix for you. He'll give you a tape (or CDs) of the soundboard mix, made from most of the instruments & vocals mic'd directly (which means the sound waves aren't traveling through the air, they're traveling as electrical signals through the medium of cables).

Whew! I know somebody is going to find some factual errors here. My knowledge of recording technology is minimal, but I think the general idea here is accurate. Don't refer to old radio broadcasts of concerts as soundboards!!

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by David A

Hello All

I have a question and a request if I may

I was on you tube and was looking at the FM Tusk Doc performance of the Chain, the one wear the crowd is like so crazy, I see that ppl have said this was in St Louis ? (1979) and I saw on a recent thread that it was posted, but I tried to down load but the links have expired. Can someone be so kind to re post or maybe point me in the right direction ? I really would love to have audio from that show , with that performance

Question, on the chain of that show, the crowd liek goes nuts, is that heard on the audio of it ? I mean, I think it would be cool if it was ), or is it like a soundboard, and if its a soundboard, how did that work in the day ? , does it JUST record what the band plays and sings and no crowd?

sorry for the dumb question, but im new to all this )

Thank you all

David


Daviles@charter.net

Check out this thread.

http://www.ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/sh...ad.php?t=33832

"Saint Michelle 2677" and posted lots of Tusk Tour concerts. The one you're looking for (St. Louis) is in post #7 and the link is good. I tried it tonight.

Thanks again, Michelle 2677 ~~~ wherever you are! And yes, I nominated you for Sainthood for all your music posts...

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by David

There's a lot of confusion about the term soundboard & what it means in relation to Fleetwood Mac concert recording. In the venue there is a PA system & a mixer. A guy stands at the mixer & controls the levels of every feed on the stage, whether it's vocal or instrument.

A true soundboard recording (of which the complete St. Louis is one) is the multitrack feed from that mixer, where everything is more or less mic'd directly, with audio cables. When you listen back to a tape of that soundboard mix, you will hear things a little differently from what you would have heard had you been in the audience at the concert. First of all, you'd hear the audience noise distantly, in the background, because the audience isn't mic'd into the mixer. Secondly, you'd hear varying levels because what the band needs to hear in its monitors (or what the sound tech needs to hear at the mixer) isn't always identical to what the audience needs to hear in the hall. This is true even in small venues.

Thirdly, you'd hear activity onstage that you wouldn't be able to hear in the audience. For example, if you listen to the few moments before Gold Dust Woman starts on the Baton Rouge 1978 soundboard tape, you'll hear a crackle followed by some buzzing. That's Lindsey's guitar tech (Ray, I guess) plugging in or unplugging an electric guitar from an amplifier. Ray has to hand Lindsey a different guitar for that song from what he was using on the song right before, Over My Head. The soundboard picks up the sound of the switcheroo because it is monitoring the activity onstage with audio cables.

A live album or a radio broadcast is generally made (at least in the old days) by microphone recording of the entire hall -- what you would hear, more or less, if you were in the audience. That's why when you listen to a concert broadcast on King Biscuit or Superstars Rock Concert Series, you can hear the crowd as if you were there. It is incorrect to refer to a radio broadcast of a live concert as a soundboard (even though nowadays live recordings mix microphone & soundboard technologies, which is called a matrix tape).

You can't hear the crowd roar on the soundboard recording of St. Louis but you can hear it roar on the concert video because that's a recording of the concert with microphones, placed strategically throughout the hall. The King Biscuit organization used to send around a van -- a mobile unit -- that would set up microphones & record the concerts, which would then be broadcast on the radio at a later date.

If you're in a band, you can tip your soundman & ask him to record the soundboard mix for you. He'll give you a tape (or CDs) of the soundboard mix, made from most of the instruments & vocals mic'd directly (which means the sound waves aren't traveling through the air, they're traveling as electrical signals through the medium of cables).

Whew! I know somebody is going to find some factual errors here. My knowledge of recording technology is minimal, but I think the general idea here is accurate. Don't refer to old radio broadcasts of concerts as soundboards!!

That was a very lucid and well thought out explanation that included things that I didn't even remember...

Carry on....

[Mywyldhrt]

Originally Posted by David

There's a lot of confusion about the term soundboard & what it means in relation to Fleetwood Mac concert recording. In the venue there is a PA system & a mixer. A guy stands at the mixer & controls the levels of every feed on the stage, whether it's vocal or instrument.

A true soundboard recording (of which the complete St. Louis is one) is the multitrack feed from that mixer, where everything is more or less mic'd directly, with audio cables. When you listen back to a tape of that soundboard mix, you will hear things a little differently from what you would have heard had you been in the audience at the concert. First of all, you'd hear the audience noise distantly, in the background, because the audience isn't mic'd into the mixer. Secondly, you'd hear varying levels because what the band needs to hear in its monitors (or what the sound tech needs to hear at the mixer) isn't always identical to what the audience needs to hear in the hall. This is true even in small venues.

Thirdly, you'd hear activity onstage that you wouldn't be able to hear in the audience. For example, if you listen to the few moments before Gold Dust Woman starts on the Baton Rouge 1978 soundboard tape, you'll hear a crackle followed by some buzzing. That's Lindsey's guitar tech (Ray, I guess) plugging in or unplugging an electric guitar from an amplifier. Ray has to hand Lindsey a different guitar for that song from what he was using on the song right before, Over My Head. The soundboard picks up the sound of the switcheroo because it is monitoring the activity onstage with audio cables.

A live album or a radio broadcast is generally made (at least in the old days) by microphone recording of the entire hall -- what you would hear, more or less, if you were in the audience. That's why when you listen to a concert broadcast on King Biscuit or Superstars Rock Concert Series, you can hear the crowd as if you were there. It is incorrect to refer to a radio broadcast of a live concert as a soundboard (even though nowadays live recordings mix microphone & soundboard technologies, which is called a matrix tape).

You can't hear the crowd roar on the soundboard recording of St. Louis but you can hear it roar on the concert video because that's a recording of the concert with microphones, placed strategically throughout the hall. The King Biscuit organization used to send around a van -- a mobile unit -- that would set up microphones & record the concerts, which would then be broadcast on the radio at a later date.

If you're in a band, you can tip your soundman & ask him to record the soundboard mix for you. He'll give you a tape (or CDs) of the soundboard mix, made from most of the instruments & vocals mic'd directly (which means the sound waves aren't traveling through the air, they're traveling as electrical signals through the medium of cables).

Whew! I know somebody is going to find some factual errors here. My knowledge of recording technology is minimal, but I think the general idea here is accurate. Don't refer to old radio broadcasts of concerts as soundboards!!

I just don't know what to say.....wow!!! Thank you-I didn't have a clue.....

[David]

Originally Posted by Mywyldhrt

I just don't know what to say.....wow!!! Thank you-I didn't have a clue.....

I totally just made all that up.

[michelle2677]

Originally Posted by David

I totally just made all that up.

you're so weird.


embedding disabled by poster, but

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xQ5XZ_5oxEg

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by David

You can't hear the crowd roar on the soundboard recording of St. Louis but you can hear it roar on the concert video because that's a recording of the concert with microphones, placed strategically throughout the hall. The King Biscuit organization used to send around a van -- a mobile unit -- that would set up microphones & record the concerts, which would then be broadcast on the radio at a later date.

speaking of king biscuit, which FM show (or shows?) was a king biscuit flower hour? i remember having a tape marked king biscuit years ago, but i can't remember where it was to save my life. i want to say it was around the white album time, but i just can't remember.

[PenguinHead]

I was always under the impression that the audience noise on some parts of that documentary were "sweetened," meaning dubbed and/or manipulated, as a production aspect for the video documentary. It stands out to me as being just a bit overwrought and heavy-handed. It borders on cheesy. I know of no other concert documentaries where it seemed so obvious. If this was actually the case, the producer probably did it to enhance the energy.

[LiamMcConville]

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

I was always under the impression that the audience noise on some parts of that documentary were "sweetened," meaning dubbed and/or manipulated, as a production aspect for the video documentary. It stands out to me as being just a bit overwrought and heavy-handed. It borders on cheesy. I know of no other concert documentaries where it seemed so obvious. If this was actually the case, the producer probably did it to enhance the energy.

I for one like it. I think it really makes a dramatic difference, especially during Sisters of the Moon.

[buckymcnix]

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

I was always under the impression that the audience noise on some parts of that documentary were "sweetened," meaning dubbed and/or manipulated, as a production aspect for the video documentary. It stands out to me as being just a bit overwrought and heavy-handed. It borders on cheesy. I know of no other concert documentaries where it seemed so obvious. If this was actually the case, the producer probably did it to enhance the energy.

I always thought that the crowd noise on that vid was strange. It seems that the crowd just erupts for absolutely no reason in certain spots. My conclusion back when it came out was that they were using crowd noise to mask certain band mistakes, or Clams.

Then i read an interview with Ken Calliet not long ago that someone posted on here and that got me to thinking about it again. In that interview he talks about boosting drums and guitars at certain points and he could feel the crowd respond (total paraphrasing what i remember here). So i was thinking that maybe those crowd swells weren't masking anything but were the result of some sound board tweaking like Ken described.

Then I watched again and I am back to my original guess. They are hiding clams. There is just no other reason to push the band sound so far behind the crowd noise EVER. The fact that it happens only in random spots only makes me more sure.

So I agree with you Bob, there was some heavy handed crowd noise manipulation going on there.


and David, that was a good description of the different types of bootleg recordings.

What you described Liam, about putting mics on the audience as well, is more for when you are actually recording the performance for future use or release. That way you have crowd noise reaction recorded to a couple channels that you can use during mixdown, mostly at beginings and ends of songs. It is not unusual when they "enhance" (make louder) the crowd at the end of the songs, but it is so rare to be mixed into the middle of a song like is done here.

[buckymcnix]

Originally Posted by LiamMcConville

I for one like it. I think it really makes a dramatic difference, especially during Sisters of the Moon.

Good example Liam and I agree to a point. There are spots in SOTM where you can feel the electricity of the crowd reacting and it seems appropriate. But there are a couple spots that I just don't see why the crowd would be reacting let alone so strongly.

Maybe John shot the moon and they edited out?

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

I was always under the impression that the audience noise on some parts of that documentary were "sweetened," meaning dubbed and/or manipulated, as a production aspect for the video documentary. It stands out to me as being just a bit overwrought and heavy-handed. It borders on cheesy. I know of no other concert documentaries where it seemed so obvious. If this was actually the case, the producer probably did it to enhance the energy.

this is exactly what i think they did too. as a matter of fact, certain parts of this audience cheer is repetitive throughout the concert, a loop, if you will. i've watched it so much through the years that i can actually identify certain hoots and hollers, let alone the same "fleetwood!" that appears about a half dozen times. as PenguinHead said, they did it to enhance the energy. The audience on the video sounds like that of the old Beatles Ed Sullivan shows. Quite annoying at times.

[Mywyldhrt]

:

Originally Posted by David

I totally just made all that up.

Oh thank God!!!