Anyone else look at Stevie's career in this way???

[sorcerer999]

In my own personal world of "Stevie fandom", I've always looked at her career in two very different phases ~ pre "The Dance" and post "The Dance".

She had hit all the highs and lows, career wise, starting with Buckingham Nicks in 1973 and then the Fleetwood Mac phenomenon, the solo career, and ending with the stinker that is "Street Angel" in 1993. But even before that album, her popularity from 1990 til 1997 had majorly taken a nose dive.

Then, four years after SA, Fleetwood Mac's reunion concert puts both the band AND Stevie's solo career back on the map.

Boxed sets, solo albums, live albums, dvd's, documentaries, etc followed up until this moment of time. Her popularity has pretty much grown since then (17 years since "The Dance") with every generation. I feel that it's also post "The Dance" where she has started to cement her place in history as a Rock N Roll Icon/Legend...whereas before "The Dance", nobody really cared anymore.

Anybody else feel this way? Separating Stevie's career in these two phases?

[louielouie2000]

I absolutely feel this way. There is a sharp delineation between Stevie's career before and after the Dance. She went from washed up has-been to rock legend nearly overnight.

The Dance was also a huge cutoff point in regards to her style and performances, too. The Dance was kind of the last hurrah for Stevie's fluidity of personal style. She has been pretty much locked into the same stage outfits for 17 years now. The Dance was also the last gasp of passion in her performances, too. Yes, Rhiannon was long dead by 1997- but we still had the wily Gold Dust Woman screams then. Just look at how on fire the woman was during her Street Angel performances, too. Post the Dance, her performances have been much more staid- it's as if she's moved into elder statesman mode or something.

All this being said, the Dance is kind of a two fold milestone- it signaled both the rebirth and death of her career. Rebirth because she was suddenly cool again for the first time in a decade and it put her stardom on a new plateau; death because it seemed to lock her into the role of living legend, which means the end of being a vital, changing, creative force.

[DauphineMarie]

I think The Dance marked a clear shift from "Relevant Artist" to "Legacy Artist". I see it this way as well, and I think this distinction allows her to sell more records, sell out more shows, and elevates her to "Rock Legend" status, i.e. induction into certain Halls of Fame, win certain awards (lifetime achievement) and generally trends upward in regards to popularity.

[James89]

I think pre- The Dance was a strange time, as from 1986 people started to lose interest in her.

I can never understand how The Other Side of the Mirror was so successful as I always thought she wasn't that popular at this time.

Behind the Mask cemented her decline in popularity in my opinion as it wasn't very popular in the US and her contribution was not well received.

1991 - Street Angel (1994) just made things worse as she was overweight and out of it mentally. I wish she'd never appeared on Leno or Letterman as it was just plain sad to see someone deteriorate like that. I also find it funny when Letterman says "I think the album will be a huge success" and Stevie replies acting as though she thinks it will be too. I always thought she was unhappy with the album? Weird. Perhaps she took an instant dislike to it when it only peaked at #45!

Thank God for The Dance!

[wheart]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

I absolutely feel this way. There is a sharp delineation between Stevie's career before and after the Dance. She went from washed up has-been to rock legend nearly overnight.

The Dance was also a huge cutoff point in regards to her style and performances, too. The Dance was kind of the last hurrah for Stevie's fluidity of personal style. She has been pretty much locked into the same stage outfits for 17 years now. The Dance was also the last gasp of passion in her performances, too. Yes, Rhiannon was long dead by 1997- but we still had the wily Gold Dust Woman screams then. Just look at how on fire the woman was during her Street Angel performances, too. Post the Dance, her performances have been much more staid- it's as if she's moved into elder statesman mode or something.

All this being said, the Dance is kind of a two fold milestone- it signaled both the rebirth and death of her career. Rebirth because she was suddenly cool again for the first time in a decade and it put her stardom on a new plateau; death because it seemed to lock her into the role of living legend, which means the end of being a vital, changing, creative force.

thank you. You stated this in a very pure, honest and kind way. It all seems to make sense now. One point I disagree on: I think the passion has most definitely returned in a big way to Gold Dust Woman, beginning with the FM tour last year. I actually think they were a little better last year but they are still a force to be reckoned with.

[wheart]

Originally Posted by James89

I think pre- The Dance was a strange time, as from 1986 people started to lose interest in her.

I can never understand how The Other Side of the Mirror was so successful as I always thought she wasn't that popular at this time.

Behind the Mask cemented her decline in popularity in my opinion as it wasn't very popular in the US and her contribution was not well received.

1991 - Street Angel (1994) just made things worse as she was overweight and out of it mentally. I wish she'd never appeared on Leno or Letterman as it was just plain sad to see someone deteriorate like that. I also find it funny when Letterman says "I think the album will be a huge success" and Stevie replies acting as though she thinks it will be too. I always thought she was unhappy with the album? Weird. Perhaps she took an instant dislike to it when it only peaked at #45!

Thank God for The Dance!

And I'm sure her stage performances from 1989-1994 had a lot to do with her popularity decline. Sure, her die hards were still coming to see her but her zonked out, robotic performances on the Mirror, Behind The Mask, and Timespace tours (in a space of 3 years) surely were damaging, not to mention the weight gain. I remember one review of the BTM tour described Stevie as being completely unrecognizable from her former self.

[AnthonyMI]

I actually think the Enchanted Tour till about halfway though recording TISL was her "last hurrah" of "young" Stevie. She was vocally and physically back at her peak. Those vocals rocked. She had not sounded that good or hit those notes (other than some off the top of her range) or had the same vibrato since the early 80's. She managed to record some great vocals with this newly reenergized voice like At LAst, Call on Me for Magic, the Crow produced tracks etc. Then she started going through "The Change of Life" and I think things started to dry up? By SYW recording and tour her voice was changed again and has more or less stayed about the same only losing a note off her range every couple years since 2004. She still sounds good dont get me wrong, but there was a big change right around 2003. Maybe she started smoking again? She was cig free in 1998, but seen smoking in SYW documentary.

[BlueDenimLamp]

Nope...For me the division is either Stevie solo or FM Stevie and for the past few years I have little interest in anything FM related...Why? Because the whole "Cash grab" tour and let's focus on what we did back in the 70's Rumours - Rumours- Rumours thing is getting really old.

[sorcerer999]

^^^ Agreed about the "Enchanted" tour, even in the song itself she was hitting those high notes just like on the "Wild Heart" album. "Sleeping Angel" was also a real treat on that tour.

"Gold Dust Woman" in Nashville (a couple of weeks after 9/11) on the TISL tour was AMAZING! And I put that performance second to "The Dance" version.

She definitely has "moments" here and there when it comes to live performances. "Storms" during the show I saw for Unleashed was sublime, as was "BATB" in Vegas! But I agree that ever since the 2000's came along, her vocals during her live shows haven't been anything special. That's why I missed the last FMac tour, and why I was only willing to spring for a "nosebleed/high up in the rafters" ticket for the Rod Stewart pairing in 2012.

Originally Posted by AnthonyMI

Maybe she started smoking again? She was cig free in 1998, but seen smoking in SYW documentary.

I wonder if Stevie has jumped on the "vapor" bandwagon? LOL!

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by DauphineMarie

I think The Dance marked a clear shift from "Relevant Artist" to "Legacy Artist".

You summed up the transition more clearly in 1 sentence than I did in 3 paragraphs!

Originally Posted by AnthonyMI

I actually think the Enchanted Tour till about halfway though recording TISL was her "last hurrah" of "young" Stevie. She was vocally and physically back at her peak. Those vocals rocked. She had not sounded that good or hit those notes (other than some off the top of her range) or had the same vibrato since the early 80's.

It's interesting- I had the exact opposite experience going to see her during the Enchanted Tour. She was very lazy vocally, and used absolutely zero vibrato during my Raleigh, NC show. Her tone was decent enough, but there was none of the back breaking to prove herself enthusiasm of the Street Angel Tour. She was more in a cruise control state for Enchanted. At least from what I saw firsthand.

I ended up skipping the Trouble In Shangri La tour, but I remember the recordings I downloaded on Napster & Kazaa at the time sounded pretty bad. Lots of sharp, hoarse, off-key notes, etc. I know she was dealing with persistent illness that tour, though. Regarding Trouble In Shangri La as an album, I think that's the bottom of the barrel of her recorded vocals. So completely droning, nasally, deep, and lazy.

[pryderi]

Originally Posted by James89

I think pre- The Dance was a strange time, as from 1986 people started to lose interest in her.

I can never understand how The Other Side of the Mirror was so successful as I always thought she wasn't that popular at this time.

Behind the Mask cemented her decline in popularity in my opinion as it wasn't very popular in the US and her contribution was not well received.

1991 - Street Angel (1994) just made things worse as she was overweight and out of it mentally. I wish she'd never appeared on Leno or Letterman as it was just plain sad to see someone deteriorate like that. I also find it funny when Letterman says "I think the album will be a huge success" and Stevie replies acting as though she thinks it will be too. I always thought she was unhappy with the album? Weird. Perhaps she took an instant dislike to it when it only peaked at #45!

Thank God for The Dance!

Didn't classic rock as a whole sort of wane by this time. I'm not really sure. I wonder how the other classic rock acts fared by this time.

[straightback818]

If You Ever Did Believe I always thought had one of her best vocals ever. It sounded VERY much like her 1970's self (a little deeper)...
I personally think her vocal coach is the problem... Didnt She get him around the late 90's... Her voice has slowly deteoriated since them. Coincidence? I think NOT

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[MikeInNV]

I think what all legendary artists, including Stevie, have in common is that they keep going and push through the years where they are considered uncool and their audiences start to shrink. Yes, Stevie had some issue in the late 80s and early 90s, but in reality every big act reaches a point where they are no longer cool because the next generation naturally wants their own heroes and isn't going to listen to the same music as their parents. Paul McCartney and Elton John, two absolute giants in the music business, certainly had periods where they were considered hopelessly uncool. If you stick that out, and don't lose faith in your talent, you have a good shot at coming out the other side as a legend.

[On Ice]

This is a really interesting discussion. I agree with the general consensus that we've seen in other threads that Stevie's creative peak was between '73-'83 and changed significantly when the cocaine zapped her creative edge. The big change came with Rock a Little. There were snippets in that vast body of work that had a lot of promise, some great tunes that went horribly wrong due to bad production choices and a beautiful voice that had reached a pinnacle in tone just a year or so prior to this mess. That said, there were definite cracks in the vase on the Wild Heart with lyric choices that went outside the bounds of brilliance and into the ridiculous. Although she pulled it off because her voice sounded so amazing.

After Rock a Little, Stevie became consistent with inconsistency and started mixing moments of brilliance with songs that were empty vessels, uninspired and performed with no passion, no emotion and no self reflection about how she sounded. I can't help but the think that the 1976-'82 Stevie would have been horrified to listen to a song in the future drone on like When I See You Again, and many others in the same vane.

I have to say that I find the whole living legend thing annoying and feel embarrassed for anyone with that label. Being an artist is about being creative and remaining creative and listening to a song like Silver Springs, the creativity in that song shows a true artist embracing her craft. Stevie's last two efforts have been about creativity and she is finally bringing passion back into her vocals. I don't look at the Dance as being a milestone, sure it was well done but it too had the peaks and valleys pattern that plagued Stevie since 1983. The true shift in Stevie then I think is the present. She is even sounding good on the current tour. 24 Karot proves that she can end her career on a high note and to me if she finds herself waining again, and a great deal of self awareness and putting aside the ego would come into play, that she should make the decision to retire. I don't want to see anymore lows at this point.

[AnthonyMI]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

You summed up the transition more clearly in 1 sentence than I did in 3 paragraphs!



It's interesting- I had the exact opposite experience going to see her during the Enchanted Tour. She was very lazy vocally, and used absolutely zero vibrato during my Raleigh, NC show. Her tone was decent enough, but there was none of the back breaking to prove herself enthusiasm of the Street Angel Tour. She was more in a cruise control state for Enchanted. At least from what I saw firsthand.

I ended up skipping the Trouble In Shangri La tour, but I remember the recordings I downloaded on Napster & Kazaa at the time sounded pretty bad. Lots of sharp, hoarse, off-key notes, etc. I know she was dealing with persistent illness that tour, though. Regarding Trouble In Shangri La as an album, I think that's the bottom of the barrel of her recorded vocals. So completely droning, nasally, deep, and lazy.

Street Angel Tour had its moments for sure. The re-recorded vocal for the House Of Blues on Rhiannon she did the ending JUST like the Rumours era. Every note.

On The Dance and even Enchanted she came close to those notes, but she had lost that top part of her belting voice. BUT if you go and listen to the Atlanta Woodstock live recordings on Youtube, even on the last show of the tour you can see she is taking chances and changing notes here and there at random and has that girlish sound in her voice that was not there in Street Angel (she was still a smoker during Street Angel).

I saw the first show of Enchanted tour and it was like seeing her in 1981! But, yah... I saw the first show of TISL tour and was less than impressed. The vocal coach may have helped her maintain her voice for a tour but it made her less into the vocal acrobatics soft and hard, gravel vs sweet she was still doing on Enchanted. EVEN at her worst and most horse on The Dance and Enchanted you could still hear that old youthful voice in there. Post TISL.... all you hear is the droning, monotone, narrow range most the time. EXCEPT when she is REALLY into it and trying.