Stevie & Lindsey Intimacy

[singertobe]

Originally Posted by nicole21290

Second Dublin show. On the 21st of September. Can't grab the clip right now, sorry.

S: Yes! Please! Jump in!
L: Say something. Let's see. *pause* Sure was hot today. I took a walk; I had to put a T-shirt on
S: And that is outrageous!



Yep, agreed on that. I try and use the terms 'I think' and 'in my opinion' exactly for that reason. Some things are subjective. See, I would think the ramble would have more positives than drawbacks for you - increases the amount of time Lindsey's on stage, increases the amount he says, and increases the improvised chat and actions (such as driving a car) from him... Plus, you get to enjoy Lindsey bowing and preening as he gets called gorgeous or sexy or smokin' hot. And you're quite right, my preferences do fit rather well in this thread. SHOCKING NEWS.



Ah, fair enough. It just seems quite an illogical way to look at the speech - I don't understand being resentful of it taking up time for two songs that wouldn't be added to the set even if the speech wasn't there... Ah, feel free to express whatever you want; doesn't bother me. Opinion is opinion, lol. Even if it's wrong...



Nah, he didn't say that - just expressed mock frustration at never being able to win. Definitely one of my favourite Without You exchanges though, what with Stevie actually having had prepared a long list of the ways she cared for and loved Lindsey. Wouldn't want the audience to think it was one-sided, lol.

S: You're right. They needed a smokin' hot, fantastic lead guitarist. Ta da! And I magically pulled him out of my pocket. And I said, "Well, that's true." And so the whole story wraps around to this - and if Lindsey wants to speak, he will - I like to tell this story because I really do want to- He's backing away! He's backing away. I like to say thank you, Lindsey, for telling Mick when he called and asked you to join Fleetwood Mac - thank you for saying whatever it is that you said. Which, would you like to step up to the mic and finish the story? Ladies and gentlemen, Mr Lindsey Buckingham.

L: Me? You want me to talk?

S: Yeah. I'd like you to say something.

L: *pondering* Say something

S: Nice. *laughs*

L: That's very difficult for me. *S laughs* Right? *L laughs* *clears throat* Okay, well, let's see. Yes, it's true, it's absolutely true. Mick had heard a song of ours. And their guitarist left and I got a phone call. I did not, I'd only met Mick once very briefly. And he said, "Lindsey, it's Mick Fleetwood."
"Hi, Mick."
"Lindsey, would you like to join Fleetwood Mac?"
And, of course, what did I say? What did I say? I said, "If you're going to take me, Mick, you gotta take my girlfriend too!!!"
And that, Stevie, *voice gets deeper* baby, that is loooooove.

S: Can I just add, in Stuttgart, to that little story since you do like to throw that in, that for five years previous to that I washed your jeans, sewed moons and stars on them, fringed them, ironed your T-shirts-

L: This is a new, uh-

S: made your house beautiful, cooked dinner, cleaned the house, was a waitress AND a cleaning lady, and also *voice gets softer* loved you.

L: That's right.

S: So, it wasn't just a one-sided deal.

L: Did I say it was?

S: Nooooo, but it kinda comes across like thaaat... We're letting you in to the seriousness of this whole thing.

L: So, all this time-

S: I don't think they really want to come in here.

L: All this time, I've been saying "that's love, baby" you've been going "*sniffs* Hmph".

S: Kind of. *laughs*

L: I can't win! Geez! I did. I loved you with all my heart-

S: I know.

L: -didn't I?

S: Yes, you did.

L: And you loved me too.

S: And I did. And that's why we went together into Fleetwood Mac.

L: That's right.

Does anyone have footage of this particular show?

[nicole21290]

Originally Posted by singertobe

[/B]
Does anyone have footage of this particular show?

Unfortunately not, so far as I know! I wish someone did because I'd die to see their expressions during these exchanges, lol. We do have audio, however, for which I'm VERY grateful because a lot of the reason this is one of my favourite Without You speeches is because of the tone with which they speak, to be honest.

Link to download it here: http://buckinghamnicks-ff.tumblr.com...-you-intro-mp3

[singertobe]

Originally Posted by nicole21290

Unfortunately not, so far as I know! I wish someone did because I'd die to see their expressions during these exchanges, lol. We do have audio, however, for which I'm VERY grateful because a lot of the reason this is one of my favourite Without You speeches is because of the tone with which they speak, to be honest.

Link to download it here: http://buckinghamnicks-ff.tumblr.com...-you-intro-mp3

Thanks!
Are you guys sure it was September 21? I typed that in the youtube search engine and got a completely different intro

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by brickney723

Your post blew my mind. So, I wrote a book.

But I've already read that book!

Originally Posted by brickney723

If you're just sharing your opinion here - mine is that I think he wonders far more about the relationship than any commercial success as a duo in Alabama or elsewhere, and that it doesn't change his feelings at all that he and Stevie had problems.

I think he knows what the outcome of their relationship would have been already. What they have as members of FM with a 45 year history is probably more than they would have had as a couple. I'm not saying that he doesn't value his relationship with Stevie. Clearly he does.. But it was a volatile relationship. They were excellent lovers, as he said, but had little else in common save for the music. Never really friends.

He wrote GYOW before the entered FM and he says he wrote it because he and Stevie were crumbling. He said he's sure he was at some Holiday Inn and he just wrote the song because it was very autobiographical, from his perspective. So, I don't think he wonders how they would have ended up. I think he wonders how their act would have ended up.

No the fact that they had problems didn't make him love her any less, but it sure makes this idea that they would have lived happily ever after a lot less likely. Almost as soon as he met Mick, he thought there was some connection between Mick and Stevie and said as much to Mick. Even if she and Mick didn't get together for a couple of years later, he saw it from the start. It doesn't really sound like he thought that he and Stevie were on a permanent road, when the relationship could be so easily sidetracked.

Maybe they would have, IF they gave up the dream of music. But as long as their was going to be a musical career, there were going to be problems.



He thinks they might have worked them out, but she says that being in FM probably made them last longer than they otherwise would have and I think he probably realizes that too.

Originally Posted by brickney723

:I get the feeling that Stevie quotes are not always accepted in regards to Lindsey's feelings,

No, they really aren't accepted as anything more than Stevie quotes, by me and I don't think her opinion of what Lindsey's opinion of her is is very reliable.

On the other hand, it seems that whenever Lindsey says something, his comments are discounted like he's trying to hide his true feelings behind a brave front when, the reality is, he has already been pretty blunt about his feelings, even the love and the pain. I don't think he's stoic at all. I just think he's really just not the storybook hopeless romantic that some people like to daydream he is.

[/QUOTE];1120842] No, I can't find a quote from Stevie saying this either, but… I can't find a quote from her saying that he didn't break his neck trying to get her back either.[/QUOTE]

She said she ran out of money and had to eat humble pie. To me having to eat humble pie doesn't indicate that he was falling all over himself to have her back in his life. I'm sure he was glad to have her, but he's never really been the, "I'd do anything to keep you" kind of guy. He seems to have been unable and unwilling to change. As was she.

[/QUOTE];1120842] Really? Couples disagree constantly. Are you saying that if I don't let my husband make 100% of the big decisions we disagree on that I'm not interested in keeping him, and that I must not love him or care if he leaves me? [/QUOTE]

Having an income that puts food on the table is a little more than a difference of opinion. Some relationship stances are deal breakers. And clearly that was going to be deal breaker for Stevie, who says she had promised her dad that she would go back to school, if something didn't turn up for them.

Yes, he valued Stevie, but I think what he creates is a love that's even greater to him than Stevie and Stevie seemed to think that too, when all he wanted to do was fall asleep with the guitar and she seemed to feel that she was second fiddle.

I don't doubt that Lindsey loves Stevie. I admire his great love for her. But I don't think she's his greatest love.

Originally Posted by brickney723

I can agree with this opinion, but my opinion is that his relationship with Stevie mattered more to him than any of this.

Yes, I know that's your opinion. I don't think the last 45 years bear that out. And comments that you use to signify some great love that he'd sacrifice absolutely everything for say something quite different to me.

I think the biggest sacrifice he made for Stevie was joining FM. And I certainly think he'd do it again. Maybe as much for her as for any other reason, in the end.

But I'm sure he wonders what would have happened after Alabama, if Mick had called them 6 months later than he did.


Michele

[MoonSister75]

Originally Posted by brickney723

Being in love (having a real, true love for another person) is an incredibly powerful thing- maybe the most powerful force in the world- no? It's not easily dislodged.

Originally Posted by michelej1

I don't doubt that Lindsey loves Stevie. I admire his great love for her. But I don't think she's his greatest love.

Michele

These two have either been in a relationship, or working together on and off since their late teens. Writing love songs, break up songs, angry songs and healing songs. There is so much emotional history there, and what they have been through in the past 45years has created a very powerful force. Just because they can not (and probably should not) be a couple or live together, doesn't mean they can not have love for each other. They are still in some kind of relationship (although one based on music). It may not be a conventional relationship, buts its still romantic

I don't think you can ever fully separate Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks "There’s nothing going on between you and me except that there will always be something going on between you and me. Until the day we die"

Just my thoughts on this enduring topic....

[nicole21290]

Originally Posted by singertobe

Thanks!
Are you guys sure it was September 21? I typed that in the youtube search engine and got a completely different intro

Ha, no, they ARE different. I was talking about two separate Without You introductions in my reply to Elle. The second Dublin show was the one with the T-shirt mention and that occurred on the 21st. The one I just transcribed and linked to was from Stuttgart much closer to the end of the tour on October the 14th.

[nicole21290]

Originally Posted by michelej1

It doesn't really sound like he thought that he and Stevie were on a permanent road, when the relationship could be so easily sidetracked.

He's considered the possibility at least, thought MAYBE, even if he doesn't go the whole hog and doesn't think they probably would've made it personally AND professionally as Stevie has said he's said.

We had a lot of problems by the time we joined, as did John and Chris. So it was one of the things that Stevie and Chris had in common. What drew them together was the need to commiserate. Without that catalyst, maybe it would have been drawn out longer. Or maybe we would have worked it out.
(1997)

And not this specifically but I like the sentiment of this quote as well:
It was never great to be poor, no. But it was maybe great to have a less complicated life, and less... well, less pressure and uh... a less number of walls that can get between any two people at this point. (1982)

I just find it interesting that both Lindsey and Stevie have, when asked about whether they made the right decision to join FM, regret it, etc, sometimes almost avoid the question and say things along the lines of 'well, I'm happy now and fate and destiny and it all worked out okay' as in the quotes of Lindsey's I posted earlier and this:

IN: Could it be said that, if it wasn’t for Fleetwood Mac, you guys might never have broken up?
SN: It’s possible that we might’ve stayed together.
IN: Gotten married?
SN: Very possible.
IN: Had kids?
SN: Had kids. But, you know, destiny intervenes.
IN: Do you ever wish that’s what happened?
SN: No, because I never go against destiny.

When your reason for saying ‘no, I never wished that happened’ is that you never go against destiny (rather than ‘it would never have worked’, ‘we’re incompatible’, ‘i don’t/didn’t love him’, ‘i like how my life turned out much better’), consider me not entirely convinced of that ‘no’ being what you always think.

-

"In your version of Beauty and the Beast, Beauty finally understands that there are difficult choices to make in this world. Knowing her fate, if you were her, what would your decision have been?"

"I would have chosen the Beast," she says softly. "Absolutely."

[MoonSister75]

Originally Posted by nicole21290

I just find it interesting that both Lindsey and Stevie have, when asked about whether they made the right decision to join FM, regret it, etc, sometimes almost avoid the question and say things along the lines of 'well, I'm happy now and fate and destiny and it all worked out okay' as in the quotes of Lindsey's I posted earlier and this:

IN: Could it be said that, if it wasn’t for Fleetwood Mac, you guys might never have broken up?
SN: It’s possible that we might’ve stayed together.
IN: Gotten married?
SN: Very possible.
IN: Had kids?
SN: Had kids. But, you know, destiny intervenes.
IN: Do you ever wish that’s what happened?
SN: No, because I never go against destiny.

When your reason for saying ‘no, I never wished that happened’ is that you never go against destiny (rather than ‘it would never have worked’, ‘we’re incompatible’, ‘i don’t/didn’t love him’, ‘i like how my life turned out much better’), consider me not entirely convinced of that ‘no’ being what you always think.

Yes some couples when they split up really do split up physically, mentally, emotionally. They are relieved its over, and move on knowing that the relationship didn't have a future.

Stevie and Lindsey have never fully done this. They are still working together, talking about each other and writing songs about each other. They still have many strings tied to each other.

I think they knew it had to end, but there was (is?) still a strong attraction - Soulmates....

I like Lindsey's very romantic description in Sad Angel "We fall to earth together...."

[nicole21290]

Originally Posted by MoonSister75

I like Lindsey's very romantic description in Sad Angel "We fall to earth together...."

I like Lindsey's very emotional declaration in It Takes Time: "It was all for you."

Even more than that, I like Lindsey's very 'romantic' question in Miss Fantasy: "Would you still love to linger up against a wall?"

Such a charmer.

[MoonSister75]

Originally Posted by nicole21290

I like Lindsey's very emotional declaration in It Takes Time: "It was all for you."

Even more than that, I like Lindsey's very 'romantic' question in Miss Fantasy: "Would you still love to linger up against a wall?"

Such a charmer.

Yes what a charmer Its a bit like "lay me down in the tall grass and let me do my stuff.."

You know, I didn't really like "It Takes Time" at first, it seemed a bit boring. Then I listened to it around the time of the Vegas show, when both Stevie and Lindsey cried to Say Goodbye, and it sounded wonderful, perfect, beautiful!.....and yes, I cried.....

[brickney723]

But I've already read that book!

Yes, I know you have! And while I've always found it extraordinary (dumbfounding, to be honest) that two people can read the same exact "book" or quotes as it were, and come to such completely different conclusions, I know it's common. Even less literal things than written or spoken language (although the ability to decipher nuance is critical to a comprehensive understanding of that as well) like feeling chemistry or reading social cues- the variation in experience boggles my mind.. while to most a thing may be glaringly obvious, a few simply won't see it. And then there's the example of experience- a person who has never known true, passionate love, and the resultant earth-shattering loss once it's gone, will not "see" the true nature of the agony of that in a person in the same way as somebody who has intimate knowledge of that emotional state- of course it would be incomprehensible to them. It kind of reminds me of Stevie Nicks' recent comments on the movie Anna Karenina.

So, having said that, I'm well aware that neither of us will never change anyone's mind. Reading through the archives of this board is a stark reminder of that.. Cognitive dissonance is on full display as that thing that causes opinions to remain firmly fixed regardless of a bombardment of any and all evidence to the contrary. Much like politics, really. So, I just kind of wanted all that documentation- transcriptions from audio and print interviews from the actual people involved, out there- so people who want to learn more can look at the actual, real information and not just the display of our own respective immovable bias.

[brickney723]

Originally Posted by nicole21290

I like Lindsey's very emotional declaration in It Takes Time: "It was all for you."

Even more than that, I like Lindsey's very 'romantic' question in Miss Fantasy: "Would you still love to linger up against a wall?"

Such a charmer.

Coming to you direct from the horse's mouth.

[brickney723]

Originally Posted by MoonSister75

I like Lindsey's very romantic description in Sad Angel "We fall to earth together...."

And then… "the crowd calling out for more." I know he lifted that from Whiter Shade of Pale, he loves that song and I'm sure it reminds him of the band.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by MoonSister75

These two have either been in a relationship, or working together on and off since their late teens. Writing love songs, break up songs, angry songs and healing songs. There is so much emotional history there, and what they have been through in the past 45years has created a very powerful force. Just because they can not (and probably should not) be a couple or live together, doesn't mean they can not have love for each other. They are still in some kind of relationship (although one based on music). It may not be a conventional relationship, buts its still romantic

I agree with you and I think there is beauty in the long, fabled and invincible nature of the love they do have. When Stevie told Courtney that Lindsey was her musical love, I think she was accurate. I think the music has given them a lasting relationship that would have ended a long time ago, had they not been in this band together. If BN had been a hit, then that music would have kept them together, but I don't know if BN would have had the staying power that FM has had. But if there was no music, then I don't think there would have been any couple for very long. 1975 could have been the end of something instead of the beginning.

But this musical love, this level of communication, I guess it's frustrating at times, because if there's no music, then how else can you relate? I think that with Stevie and Lindsey and the FM members in general, you have this great love, but no real way of expressing it, except when you're creating music. And they feel "I've shared so much with this person, how is it that we can have nothing to talk about, if it's not a demo?"

So, the connection may seem attenuated at times because it's not based on the traditional exchanges that most relationships are, but in reality, it's something that has endured longer than many romantic loves. Longer than the love they had outside of the music, when they were living together. Because I don't think that was taking them very far. But because of FM, I think it has evolved into something bigger. Sex and passion are not more. They're just different. I think what they do have is more.

In fact, I think that's what Lindsey has wanted to preserve since the SYW album started. It's like, I've known her since I was 16, we should be able to get along. And that he's wanted the need to argue with and hurt each other with words to finally stop. Just because this is not the person you're sleeping with or could have built a home and a family with does not mean they're not your partner. And it's possible to have that partnership and rejoice in it and have outgrown the yearning for something else.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by brickney723

Even less literal things than written or spoken language (although the ability to decipher nuance is critical to a comprehensive understanding of that as well) like feeling chemistry or reading social cues- the variation in experience boggles my mind.. while to most a thing may be glaringly obvious, a few simply won't see it.

And I like nuance in all relationships, not just romantic ones. I'm fascinated by all couples. It doesn't matter to me whether it's Jerry Lewis and Dean Martin or Vivian Leigh and Laurence Olivier or fictional couples like Mulder and Scully. The way they support each other or betray each other and hurt and make up and forgive or don't forgive always touches me and makes me want to delve deeper.

And that's how I would mark my shows starting with The Dance. I wouldn't come home and say, "that show had a very great Rhiannon." I'd rate the show on who touched whom and when and how and how long. Yes, I'd rate it on the fire of Silver Springs -- which was much better on tour than it was on the DVD. I'd notice how far towards Stevie would walk each night and how far she'd retreat, further and further as the tour progressed, until she was almost knocking John over. That was a high point. But also the nature of canoodling between Lindsey and Christine was a highlight during Stand Back for me too. So much so that I love Stand Back but don't think I ever looked at Stevie during that number, because I was looking at Chris and Lindsey.

The last bows, sometimes Christine would walk across the stage directly into Lindsey's arms and I loved it. But in the end that stopped and I got sort of worried. And how would Stevie and Lindsey bow that night, would he have the arch of her neck securely ensconced in his elbow as they walked off the stage or would he run off and leave, so that Mick could walk her off. Such was my tour checklist from The Dance and every tour since then.

I obsess over these things. That's why the entire FM group fascinates me, not just Stevie and Lindsey. And I think it's telling that Lindsey has said the same things about John and Chris and John and Mick that he has said about he and Stevie, because these relationship dynamics are really universal ones.

And as far as the quotes go, the thing is you can always select the quotes you want. There are dozens more that would lead to an entirely opposite conclusion, so I don't think they leave an objective record for anyone to follow. Just the opposite.

I think anyone truly interested will have to read everything that's out there and come to their own conclusion. Michele