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  #76  
Old 04-19-2012, 06:45 AM
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McTrouble McTrouble is offline
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Oh my - I've nothing to say except that I love and admire Lindsey.

I will never trash him or be disloyal - my feelings remain unchanged.

Let he who is without sin.........



Oh, and Nico.......
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  #77  
Old 04-19-2012, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by MrStevie View Post
I wish my eyes were open sooner. I wasted a lot of years listening to his music and going to his concerts. It kinda makes me sick now.
Have you reacted similarly to other artists who have been shown to be despicable people? Dali? Polanski? Brecht? Wagner?
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  #78  
Old 04-19-2012, 10:36 AM
mezzoforte mezzoforte is offline
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Originally Posted by David View Post
Have you reacted similarly to other artists who have been shown to be despicable people? Dali? Polanski? Brecht? Wagner?
I obviously can't speak for MrStevie, but I actually have decided not to support any of Polanski's films. I may reevaluate after his death, but while he's alive, I don't want a penny of my money going to a man who raped a child and never payed the price.
John Phillips (probably the most monstrous artist of all time?) is my very favorite songwriter, but I don't know that I would spend money on his music, were he still living.
So while I don't share MrStevie's feelings about Mr. Buckingham, I certainly see where he's coming from, and respect his decision to withdraw his support as a fan. We all have our boundaries for our idols.

Now, I believe Ken's and Carol Ann's stories about Lindsey, but they haven't changed my love for his music. I've been disappointed to learn what he was like in that era, but I do think he's worked extremely hard over the years to battle his demons. The man speaks therapist.
And on a personal level, having lived with a brother who once had severe anger management problems but has worked through them and changed completely, I really believe in people's ability to change. Until we hear negative stories about Lindsey's behavior in the present, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
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  #79  
Old 04-19-2012, 02:07 PM
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I'm with you, mezzoforte. Polanski's sexual assault of a minor sickens me to the degree where I no longer can appreciate his work.

However, at least in my opinion, Lindsey's occasional violent outbursts 20+ years ago aren't anywhere near as repulsive as raping a 13-year-old. (I'm not trying to justify Lindsey's behavior - that's just my feelings on the matter).

My reaction is no more or less valid than others'. Just like I don't want to be told that I'm overreacting to Polanski, I'm not going to tell others they're overreacting about Lindsey if they choose to turn away from him. Each person can make that decision for him or herself.

As for me, I think Lindsey's changed and I respect that. I don't hold his past behavior against him. It's the present that matters to me. JMHO.
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  #80  
Old 04-19-2012, 02:36 PM
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The way I look at it - Lindsey may be an affable, friendly guy with a good heart but that doesn't mean he isn't an a-hole with a violent temper at times. (Really, I dont expect him to fly into a fist slinging, neck strangling rage with his fans...) And, just because he has a violent temper doesn't mean he was or is an abuser. I recall he practically destroyed a guitar in recent years, so I don't believe alcohol/drugs are all to blame-probably just made him worse. But, silence from witnesses doesn't necessarily indicate anything stronger than a collective shrug from people who know him best and don't feel there is any claim serious enough to warrant a defense. For the same reason no one got up and bothered to protect anyone who was being "attacked" in any of the incidences described (Ken, CAH, Stevie) - they knew there was no real threat.
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  #81  
Old 04-19-2012, 03:19 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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Originally Posted by CADreaming View Post
The way I look at it - Lindsey may be an affable, friendly guy with a good heart but that doesn't mean he isn't an a-hole with a violent temper at times. (Really, I dont expect him to fly into a fist slinging, neck strangling rage with his fans...) And, just because he has a violent temper doesn't mean he was or is an abuser. I recall he practically destroyed a guitar in recent years, so I don't believe alcohol/drugs are all to blame-probably just made him worse. But, silence from witnesses doesn't necessarily indicate anything stronger than a collective shrug from people who know him best and don't feel there is any claim serious enough to warrant a defense. For the same reason no one got up and bothered to protect anyone who was being "attacked" in any of the incidences described (Ken, CAH, Stevie) - they knew there was no real threat.
I agree with this. Just because you smiled at some fans doesn't mean you aren't abusing family members and co-workers away from the stage. So, I don't see that as proof of anything. Additionally, alcohol, drugs, and epilepsy don't excuse violent behavior either. So, if he went around punching women, there is no condition that would justify that behavior in my mind.

As for whether it happened, I certainly don't see silence or the silence of his friends and co-workers as proof of anything. Maybe they simply think that discussing it will only give the allegations more publicity. So far, we haven't seen any of them asked about it in the press. And believe me, if they were asked and refused to respond, I think that would rate a mention in the news articles too. So far, it hasn't happened. I don't think anyone cares except us. The Sheryl Crow thing made a big splash in the mainstream press. This other stuff does not.


So, the idea that they would proactively speak out against CAH or Ken seems absurd to me. It's not as if those books made the NY Times Bestseller list. They're well known to a devoted community of FM fans, but not to the masses.

Michele
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  #82  
Old 04-19-2012, 05:24 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Originally Posted by mylittledemon View Post
Gasp! Did you blow your tweeters?



Same here. He was nothing but friendly.
hahaha!!! can you imagine if people were walking out of the meet and greet with choke marks around their necks like Carol Anne.. lol!!!

ok I'll be good now...
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  #83  
Old 04-19-2012, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by sodascouts View Post
Very true. I think this had a lot to do with it. I believe, at heart, he's a good guy.



I read Felder's book too and there were a lot of inaccuracies. A few of the fights he described having with Frey on certain dates were logistically impossible or contradicted in his promotional interviews. Just something to think about before you buy everything he's selling. Unlike others, he definitely has a motive to "exaggerate" - not only resentment from being fired, but acrimony due to the lawsuit.

That's the same reason I don't buy a lot of Carol Ann Harris' book. She arguably had an agenda against Lindsey. It's Caillat's book that gave me pause.
I hear what your saying about Felder & all. But really since they were high on drugs most of them --the rest of the Eagles probably wouldn't have the exact dates of issues that occured. Look how Stevie is with timelines/tour dates etc. I don't 'buy' all that he's selling me. But it is one point of view from a 'larger' than life band just like Fmac. I'm sure none of them love it that there 'dirty laundry'(LOL--DH song) is in the public esp from a former band member but thats life deal with it . I'm sure they all have there own agenda but thats there issues --still interesting to read though. Just saying. ps probably don't buy what any of them sell in there stories but it was there life at that time--there right to tell it and all. It is what it is.
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...."Blue Water....I sit and I wait for the morning to come...."
...."All the beautiful worlds...that I have seen so far have all fallen down....Ooh, it used to be yours....calm , beautiful ,childlike victim...calm beautiful, childlike victim...."
..."There is a legend passed down through the ages...down through the crystal visions...down through the crystal clear-water fountain...the charmed ones remain...They are mine (you remain...ooh)...."
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  #84  
Old 04-19-2012, 06:00 PM
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Yeah, I don't have the greatest memory myself and I don't even do drugs. I can see how dates can get confused. There are other inaccuracies that are more difficult to explain away. Still, this thread isn't about the Eagles, so I'll resist the urge to go into greater detail.

I do tend to give my faves the benefit of the doubt. Even now, though I don't know him and have no proof to back it up, I still believe Lindsey's a good guy. I believe this in spite of the fact that I also believe he occasionally went ballistic and grabbed people in chokeholds when enraged. Why? Because I adore his music and I think he's great. That makes no logical sense, but there it is!

BTW Sue - "Starshine" is one of my favorite demos so your username always makes me smile!
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  #85  
Old 04-19-2012, 06:21 PM
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elle elle is offline
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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
Just because you smiled at some fans doesn't mean you aren't abusing family members and co-workers away from the stage.
it doesn't, and i don't think anybody tried to suggest that.

fan experiences partially address the assertion that LB "sucks the fun out of every room he enters" and that nobody ever has anything good to say about him. people brought up their personal experiences to the contrary.
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  #86  
Old 04-19-2012, 07:51 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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Originally Posted by elle View Post

fan experiences partially address the assertion that LB "sucks the fun out of every room he enters"
I laughed in Ken's book when he said he was surprised that Lindsey was happy to see him because Lindsey was so rarely happy about anything, because Ken himself had already offered 100 incidents in previous pages when Lindsey WAS happy, positive, laughing, satisfied, etc., so the idea that he was always a downer contradicted other passages of the book, much less the impressions of other people ouside of the book.

Michele
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  #87  
Old 04-19-2012, 08:01 PM
starshine starshine is offline
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Originally Posted by sodascouts View Post
Yeah, I don't have the greatest memory myself and I don't even do drugs. I can see how dates can get confused. There are other inaccuracies that are more difficult to explain away. Still, this thread isn't about the Eagles, so I'll resist the urge to go into greater detail.

I do tend to give my faves the benefit of the doubt. Even now, though I don't know him and have no proof to back it up, I still believe Lindsey's a good guy. I believe this in spite of the fact that I also believe he occasionally went ballistic and grabbed people in chokeholds when enraged. Why? Because I adore his music and I think he's great. That makes no logical sense, but there it is!

BTW Sue - "Starshine" is one of my favorite demos so your username always makes me smile!
Hi is your name Nancy. Thanks about 'Starshine' its always one of my favorite demos/outtakes from BD one that I wish was offically released (amoung many many others like Blue Water) I could go on & on about this subject too. Thats nice of you to say. Its so hard to pick screen names & well it was one of my favorite UNR songs so I just had to pick it!! What does yours mean? if you don't mind me asking? I also love the buck/nicks web site its great!! Just like I'd loved the sararhiannon web site many moons ago. Its sad how many great web sites aren't the 'offical' ones. Sad but true. Sorry to have taken over the tread about the Eagles. I guess we may love our favorites artists etc but not the person so much. I guess I have just tried to let all of that go--not easy sometimes but none of us is perfect & we all have our faults & addictions so to speak. I don't do drugs either so I don't know what Mac etc have went through. I guess for them it could be a shame because they probably don't remember the good things very well or the bad either. When I first go into Mac in like the late 80's along with Stevie's solo stuff I'd never liked Lindsey much cause of what I heard he'd done to Stevie but than I just let it go cause well I wasn't 'there' & it wasn't my issue's so to speak. I do like most of his solo stuff though my favorite is still OOTC it'll always be my favorite solo cd of his though I do have most of the others too. I always recall what a good friend of mine said. Don't know if it really goes with what were talking about but anyway: You can respect the job of said person but not the man/woman in that job. Does this make any sense? I may not be saying it right either. Anyway, nice to know my name Starshine makes you smile!!
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...."Blue Water....I sit and I wait for the morning to come...."
...."All the beautiful worlds...that I have seen so far have all fallen down....Ooh, it used to be yours....calm , beautiful ,childlike victim...calm beautiful, childlike victim...."
..."There is a legend passed down through the ages...down through the crystal visions...down through the crystal clear-water fountain...the charmed ones remain...They are mine (you remain...ooh)...."
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  #88  
Old 04-20-2012, 10:51 PM
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Yes, it's Nancy. Thanks for the kind words and I too miss the old sites like sararhiannon.com and burnish.net. Despite the lack of timely updates, I plan to keep buckinghamnicks.net online until I die or run out of money, whichever comes first!

It's true you can love the music without loving the man (or woman). Perhaps we shouldn't even concern ourselves... but the information is out there and it's only natural to discuss it.
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  #89  
Old 04-22-2012, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by David A View Post
I just finished Ken’s book, and I was somewhat startled, and baffled and confused. Keep in mind, I am a LB fan #1 and FM fan #2, I did read CAH’s book about her time with FM and LB, and the picture she painted of LB wasn’t all that flattering, but I decided to just squash it. But, after reading Ken’s book, it is amazing how many demons LB must have had back in the day. But, I am confused how to feel about him now.

. I mean, I guess one can say he is a human being and we all make mistakes, and that let’s face it, he never put himself out there to be a role model, and maybe I should stick to loving his music and not care to much what kind of person he was/is. But, I’ll admit, for the most part vie always admired the person he is, not so sure any more

. I would say that FM may be great musicians, but I’d say not such great people, after reading this book.
. I do think FM was never obligated to take care of these people that worked with them, I mean Loyalty is one thing and judging from this FM doesn’t have any, but as far as taking care of these people, that wasn’t their job or duty, if people were too busy smoking dope or too stupid to make sure that they weren’t paid, then that’s on them and not the band.
. It’s weird, LB never struck me as a guy who people would be afraid of, if he was choking ppl, and I was there, I would have jumped in, heck LB isn’t the Hulk, so I wonder why people never did that, or if he choked me, like he did Ken, I would have punched him square in the face. People seemed really scared of LB, and for the life of me, don’t know why
. I am not going to even try and rationalize him abusing people, it’s just not right, and I wonder if he still even knows what he did, and down the road, id hate for his kids to read these things about their father. Its one thing to read these things about someone you idolized, but to read them about your Father is another.
. I do tend to agree with Ken that for the most part, LB was an unhappy person, that is self inflicted, and I sure hope he is a happier person today
. It’s strange, as bad as LB may have been, I tend to think w/out him being assertive, and we would never have gotten what we did from the band, which is a strange trade off
. 1997 Dance Time, I always did wonder why FM didn’t work with Richard and Ken again, loyalty again, and I do think that it would have been nice of LB to include Richard
. I tend to think that LB isn’t the greatest friend per say, he strikes me, after reading many books, that he would be someone who would befriend you for his use and advantage, and then after time, would pull away. Out of sight, out of mind per say. Example, I’ve always wondered why LB never kept in touch or worked more with Richard, Ken, Ray Lindsey, etc. I guess what im saying, is LB doesn’t strike me as a good friend to have. Whereas Mick strikes me as someone who would never forget you or help you (if he could)
. Ken, in some ways, I think was a little harsh on LB, but then again, these stories have been re told by others, so it’s hard to find ways to defend LB
. At this point, since they are older, I tend to think that FM or LB doesn’t care what we think, and I guess they have earned that right.

Bottom line, it’s a little harder today, after reading this book, to admire LB the man, I still adore the Musician, but the man himself isn’t as pretty as I may have thought, and it’s a little sad, because I think he may have hurt a lot of people along the way, I really wish he would write a book, do a interview to defend himself, or work with some of his old partners again.

David
I have not read Ken's book so I cant comment on it yet. When the Harris book came out we didnt hear a peep from FM. I suppose they didnt want to give it any publicity, so they didnt refute her stories. That will probably be the case with this book. Keep quiet and hope it goes away.The book may have something to do with there being no big FM tour this summer.

As far as the band defending themselves, if they do it will probably be in a song. I like to think that Everybody Finds Out is Stevie's response to Carol Ann's jealous portrayal of her in the book.' You cant love him you cant have him= I do have him most of the time. Anytime we can get away". There was one point in the book where Carol mentions Lindsey going to Stevie's hotel room to talk to her about being mean to poor innocent Carol. Carol says Lindsey was gone for hours. Did she really think they were talking about her all that time? She was definitely dilusional about the 'Spectre of Stevie'. The part in EFO when Stevie says "you always know when somethings wrong, my friend" sounds like she is adressing Carol's attempt to befriend her after she trashes her through out the book.
For Lindsey, I can see Red Rover being a response to Harris. You dont belong here, I guess you never did = FM circle, Red Rover we come to take you over= sarcasm of her innocent act and her portrayal of the band. One of the quiet ones one of the few, now fall down onto your knees show us all what you can do= I have always thought of Carol as a glorified groupie so I will leave that up to interpetation
There may be other references in songs that we havent noticed?
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  #90  
Old 04-22-2012, 08:32 PM
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Thumbs down Ax Grinding !!!

The only one I feel sorry for aside from the family who love Daddy and his little wife...is David falling for this mean spirited,nasty book!!!Ken ought to be ashamed...there must be a better way to raise money! Ken cannot spoil my admiration for Lindsey's music!

God Bless and Keep Lindsey and his family in His Loving Care!!!
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