Bob Welch has died

[wetcamelfood]

At the end of the day, it's clear the hall want to induct as few people as they can in and only the Jerry Garcia's of the world would fight for complete inclusion so it must've been a FM member. I am surprised to hear it wasn't Mick though...

John

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by wetcamelfood

At the end of the day, it's clear the hall want to induct as few people as they can in and only the Jerry Garcia's of the world would fight for complete inclusion so it must've been a FM member. I am surprised to hear it wasn't Mick though...

Plus, I think they couldn't wait to get the Grateful Dead in the HOF. I doubt that Fleetwood Mac had the same type of pull. If "The Dance" hadn't been a huge hit, they would've been inducted in 1998, because they were eligible in 1992! Eventually, they would have, but consider Rush, Yes, and The Guess Who aren't in it, yet.

[Bryan]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

It wouldn't have been Rick. He wasn't inducted. Wendy seemed to shoot down the suggestion it was John McVie.

The only reason I pointed that out is that there hadn't been any other members that claimed to have kept in touch,and he since retracted that post on FB.Suspect. also the "you'll never guess" part she wrote says it's someone MOST unlikely. I'd say it's irrelevant whether the culprit was inducted themselves or not

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Bryan

The only reason I pointed that out is that there hadn't been any members that claimed to have kept in touch,and he since retracted that post on FB.Suspect. also the "you'll never guess" part she wrote says it's someone MOST unlikely. I'd say it's irrelevant whether the culprit was inducted themselves or not

Again, as much as I hate to say it, my finger would first point at Christine, then Lindsey. Even though I always blamed Mick. And I just don't see John or Stevie being that petty.

[Bryan]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

Again, as much as I hate to say it, my finger would first point at Christine, then Lindsey. Even though I always blamed Mick. And I just don't see John or Stevie being that petty.

I don't think christine ever stated that she'd kept in touch with Bob,far from it.reading Wendy's posts make it easy to eliminate possibilities, imo

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

Again, as much as I hate to say it, my finger would first point at Christine, then Lindsey. Even though I always blamed Mick. And I just don't see John or Stevie being that petty.

I think IF Wendy Welch's suspicions are based on some basis of fact, I would agree that Christine would be the likely culprit. When you consider that Christine had more-or-less quit FM at that point, they probably moved heaven and earth to make sure she was part of the induction, even if it meant meeting every one of her demands. Knowing how utterly loyal Christine has been to FM, I suspect that she took the lawsuit very personally. Literally- she was named as a defendant. It is very possible that she refused to be in the same room as Bob because of this.

Also, I think Christine's silence regarding Bob's passing is deafening.

BTW, for any of you attending one of the upcoming meet and greets, for crikeys sake, ASK LINDSEY about this!!!!!!

[Bryan]

..'cept for the "claims to have kept up with him but didn't" part.

[Chris_Lover]

Originally Posted by Bryan

I don't think christine ever stated that she'd kept in touch with Bob,far from it.reading Wendy's posts make it easy to eliminate possibilities, imo

I read Chris didn't stay anymore in touch with Bob and well, if someone who I consider friend sued me only for "underpayment" of royalties, instead of solving the matter civilly, I'd also break any friendship as a matter of principle. Anyway, this doesn't means that she's insensitive towards his death. She lost contacts with him before the lawsuit, when in 1974 Bob was replaced with Stevie/Lindsey and Chris was already stressed because her marriage was starting to fail (even if she sang with him in 1981). We don't know how she reacted to his death, if she sent a condolences telegram or called his family, so we can't judge her. She lives a very private life now and nobody really knows what she do or say anymore. Maybe she also called Stevie and Mick and talked with them about this terrible event, just to get advices about the best thing to do, if individually or together...who knows
I hope Mick (but also Lindsey, Stevie and John) will now do something to request Bob's inclusion in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

[CADreaming]

Two comments:

First, 1998 was the first year Stevie & Lindsey were eligible to be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame based on their criteria:

Artists become eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first record. Criteria include the influence and significance of the artists’ contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll.

Stevie is big on working the politics there (and everywhere, really), so it doesn't surprise me they went in that year. It worked out for them too, considering they were jump starting FM. Plus, since Stevie & Lindsey were the longest consecutive members and were a large part for the mega success the band enjoyed, there is no argument to say they were ineligible, just based on them joining the first year of eligibility. It does not specify in the criteria your first release must be with the group you are being inducted with.

But, I agree it was totally wrong to exclude Bob Welch when all the other members were inducted, despite the fact that I feel a more stringent policy should exist. For example, to be inducted in the Country Music Hall of Fame it ties the two requirements together - that an artist's contributions to the music industry have been significant over a 25 year period.

Secondly, Wendy Welch posted this last night:

"Don't try to guess because you couldn't anyway and Bob loved this person and it's over now and Mick is trying to help. I never should have mentioned it. Bob wouldn't want me to or you either LOVE FLEETWOOD MAC."

[holidayroad]

I think the RRHOF needs to change its policies. It should be all members of a band or none.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

Two comments:

First, 1998 was the first year Stevie & Lindsey were eligible to be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame based on their criteria:

Artists become eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first record. Criteria include the influence and significance of the artists’ contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll.

Yes, they would have been eligible to be inducted as "Buckingham Nicks," not as members of Fleetwood Mac from a strictly literal interpretation of the "25-year rule," which is not well defined and is wide open to interpretation/enforcement. Clearly the RRHOF has not always gone for the literal interpretation. For example, one of the first bands to be inducted was The Rolling Stones, including Ronnie Wood, who had joined the Stones only 13 years prior to their induction. I'm not saying that Stevie and Lindsey shouldn't have been inducted in 1998 or were ineligible; I just think they were able to exploit a loophole in the nominating committee's criteria by joining a band several years after the band's debut record- not unlike Ronnie Wood. All things being equal, it could be argued that Bob Welch better matched the technical criteria for being nominated since his first album with FM was released 27 years prior to their induction. Clearly, in S&L's case, the nominating committee gave extra weight to Rumours.

But, I agree it was totally wrong to exclude Bob Welch when all the other members were inducted, despite the fact that I feel a more stringent policy should exist. For example, to be inducted in the Country Music Hall of Fame it ties the two requirements together - that an artist's contributions to the music industry have been significant over a 25 year period.

Tell that to Dave Walker and Bob Weston (RIP)! The merits of the RRHOF nominating decision can be argued in Bob's case, but you can't deny that at least they were consistent in overlooking all members who were exclusively part of that middle period of FM.

I agree that the criteria should be changed such than an artist must have had an enduring career. However, where does that leave artists who died prematurely in their prime? Buddy Holly, Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, etc. It's a slippery slope. I think that's where they have to quantify both the duration of the artist's career as well as their enduring legacy, which is why the RRHOF currently appears to be filled with one-hit wonders and/or performers that have long faded into obscurity. IMHO, performers like The Coasters and The Drifters simply have no place in the RRHOF, especially when infinitely more influential, enduring acts like Yes and Heart are not inducted. That's just like inducting the New Kids on the Block, who, by the way, are eligible for nomination in a few years .

[Bryan]

Originally Posted by Chris_Lover

I read Chris didn't stay anymore in touch with Bob and well, if someone who I consider friend sued me only for "underpayment" of royalties, instead of solving the matter civilly, I'd also break any friendship as a matter of principle. Anyway, this doesn't means that she's insensitive towards his death. She lost contacts with him before the lawsuit, when in 1974 Bob was replaced with Stevie/Lindsey and Chris was already stressed because her marriage was starting to fail (even if she sang with him in 1981). We don't know how she reacted to his death, if she sent a condolences telegram or called his family, so we can't judge her. She lives a very private life now and nobody really knows what she do or say anymore. Maybe she also called Stevie and Mick and talked with them about this terrible event, just to get advices about the best thing to do, if individually or together...who knows
I hope Mick (but also Lindsey, Stevie and John) will now do something to request Bob's inclusion in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Yes, all good. But what I was getting at was as far as public statements go (which is what I gather WW meant) only one had mentioned at having kept up (via phone) all the while, and that statement has disappeared since then,so one can only draw conclusions....

[bombaysaffires]

From Bob's (Wendy's ) FB page comments, a guy named Jimmy Robinson wrote:

Originally Bob was invited some one said , I won't attend if he comes , Mick was put between a rock and a hard place not to say there was not pressure everywhere else either . Mick had no choice but to not invite Bob or he would of had the whole damn mess fall apart in his face , and there would have been no inductions at all ... I will be taken care of everyone has to stop thinking of them selves and let every thing take it natural do course , Mick Fleetwood is a good man and he will do the proper thing , I have known him as long as I have known Bob ... It will be ok ,I am sure of that ...

[wetcamelfood]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

From Bob's (Wendy's ) FB page comments, a guy named Jimmy Robinson wrote:

Originally Bob was invited some one said , I won't attend if he comes , Mick was put between a rock and a hard place not to say there was not pressure everywhere else either . Mick had no choice but to not invite Bob or he would of had the whole damn mess fall apart in his face , and there would have been no inductions at all ... I will be taken care of everyone has to stop thinking of them selves and let every thing take it natural do course , Mick Fleetwood is a good man and he will do the proper thing , I have known him as long as I have known Bob ... It will be ok ,I am sure of that ...

I think Jimmy Robinson produced the 1st Paris album.

Anyway, well, PG, JS & DK weren't there either and it went fine. Would it have been the end of the world if, say it was Christine, Mick would just say like he did with those three that they/CM "couldn't be here tonight but he thanks them on their behalf" or whatever? Just a thought.

John

EDIT: Oops, of course PG was there, can't remember about JS but DK def wasn't so point being DK and/or CM (if CM is "the one') would have still been inducted but not present at the awards show etc.

[wetcamelfood]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Tell that to Dave Walker and Bob Weston (RIP)! The merits of the RRHOF nominating decision can be argued in Bob's case, but you can't deny that at least they were consistent in overlooking all members who were exclusively part of that middle period of FM

Know what you mean but I guess I just feel sad that Mick claims that FM was his whole world and going by what it seemed like he felt like, he might have done the "all or none" speech to the hall back then but ever since The Dance he's relented and goes along with what the others (meal tickets) want and therefore won't "stick up" for what he once might have and it just seems to come across as hypocritical if he was to say the same things in interviews now that he used to. Maybe he doesn't say those things anymore in interviews I must admit I haven't been following those and if he doesn't say those things fair enough, but if he does...

John