The Infamous Bob Dylan Comment

[dreamsunwind]

Originally Posted by MoonSister75

She's been determined since SYW to not go back in the studio with Lindsey, apart from a few days for the EP. I could be completely wrong, and it's just my opinion, but I believe not wanting to go back to that recording situation is a big factor in her decision.

If it really is that she can't write anything else, or doesn't feel she can use her old demos as they aren't good enough, then that's just sad. I'm sure she has enough in the vault to make a good contribution to an album.

I agree with this, I always believed this to be the main thing. SYW burned her bridges with Lindsey for producing a full album. An EP or a guest spot on her album is different, because it's short and sweet.

However, this interview showed to me that not writing songs is actually a problem for her now which I'd never before believed it was. So now I also believe that this is another major issue, I think any 'new' music we might get from her will probably be an old demo turned into a song a la 24 Karat Gold.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by MoonSister75

Christine doesn't have an ongoing painful dynamic with her ex-partner of 50 years, who will be producing the music. I think the band are very aware of just how difficult it is between Lindsey and Stevie ​and have to find a way to work around it.

I am no less disappointed than anyone here that there won't be another album with all 5 (although I live in hope that one still might come about.....). And I know Stevie's recent article doesn't put her in a good light. I also don't like to hear that it's a decision based on money, or that she feels they are too old to make music together. I just wonder how much of that is just excuses. She mentioned in an interview a while back that going into the studio would put them all in the same stressful situation again (or something along those lines).

She's been determined since SYW to not go back in the studio with Lindsey, apart from a few days for the EP. I could be completely wrong, and it's just my opinion, but I believe not wanting to go back to that recording situation is a big factor in her decision.

If it really is that she can't write anything else, or doesn't feel she can use her old demos as they aren't good enough, then that's just sad. I'm sure she has enough in the vault to make a good contribution to an album.

As I've said elsewhere on this site, her behavior seems to be the result of trauma. Working on her music with Lindsey appears to have shattered her. Since Say You Will she has built up a tough exterior and a wall of iron so he can't penetrate. I can't blame her for wanting to preserve herself. But then she should just say this outright. She already has more than hinted at this by saying that it's better to tour than to fight in the studio for a year.

All along, I've been disappointed that Stevie didn't want to come on board, but I've been WAY more annoyed with Mick and the rest of them for not wanting to move on without her. Now they are--sort of--and I'm thrilled. If they had just come to this conclusion right away, this album would have been 2 years old now. And they could have returned as a group of five to do a world tour together.

Instead, they went out on that tour right away, so hard on the heels of the one they just ended, and then they plan to go out AGAIN next year. My issues have been primarily with how the band (including Stevie) are treating its fans who want new music--with or without Stevie.

[singertobe]

Honestly I've always been on Stevie's side for this issue. I had a similar situation in middle school. We were doing a play and one of my fellow cast members was like "You don't say the lines like that. Its like this." I bit my tongue, but I so wanted to say "Excuse me, but are you the director? Shut up, I'll play the part how I want to play the part!"

[MoonSister75]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

As I've said elsewhere on this site, her behavior seems to be the result of trauma. Working on her music with Lindsey appears to have shattered her. Since Say You Will she has built up a tough exterior and a wall of iron so he can't penetrate.

Yes I think she's put up a very firm boundary regarding recording with Lindsey, and not even Christine coming back can change that. It's sad for the fans, as there's nothing better than the 3 singers together with their harmonies. But I totally understand Stevie's decision.

[MoonSister75]

Originally Posted by singertobe

Honestly I've always been on Stevie's side for this issue. I had a similar situation in middle school. We were doing a play and one of my fellow cast members was like "You don't say the lines like that. Its like this." I bit my tongue, but I so wanted to say "Excuse me, but are you the director? Shut up, I'll play the part how I want to play the part!"

It's much easy to empathise with her if you've experienced something similar.
Who wants to spend months on end in a very tense environment?

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by MoonSister75

It's much easy to empathise with her if you've experienced something similar.
Who wants to spend months on end in a very tense environment?

I do crap ALL THE TIME, because it's the right thing to do, not because I want to do it!

She'd most likely be "nothing", had FM not accepted her as part of "the package deal", so why not suck it up and be grateful, and record one last studio album.

Because time IS running out, and it's going to be too late...

And guess who's fault it's going to be? Yep, her.

[Angel75]

Back to the thread title, Lindsey should know better than to bring something up like 'how she chooses to write her lyrics/poems, he knows it would insult and upset her. He 'tried' to do it nicely but it came across condescending. Did he not doing the exact same thing when he writes in BTLH..."Pretending that she DONT miss me?!!!".....Would Stevie go out of her way to point his incorrect use of grammar and tense here, no of course not. She allows him the freedom to write as he chooses, of course she is not a producer though.
On the other side, Stevie was embarrasingly arrogant to use the Bob Dylan response and probably should of reacted better. I think as previously mentioned this probably one too many times she has been criticised by LB and she reacted badly.
Both at fault in my opinion....a childish disagreement

[MoonSister75]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

I do crap ALL THE TIME, because it's the right thing to do, not because I want to do it!

She'd most likely be "nothing", had FM not accepted her as part of "the package deal", so why not suck it up and be grateful, and record one last studio album.

Because time IS running out, and it's going to be too late...

And guess who's fault it's going to be? Yep, her.

At least you'll soon be getting some new music without the old goat

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by MoonSister75

At least you'll soon be getting some new music without the old goat

AMEN to that. I can't wait!!!!

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

AMEN to that. I can't wait!!!!

Stand back and don't look down!

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Stand back and don't look down!

Imma Waitin' On The Countdown!

[sodascouts]

I obviously love them both but I thought Stevie's reaction came off as ridiculously over-the-top. What Lindsey was doing was giving constructive feedback. He was right in that her inconsistent use of pronouns was confusing, although he phrased it more gently than that.

Her reaction came across to me like this: "I can't handle even the slightest implication that what I've written isn't absolutely perfect in every way. Anyone who presumes to suggest such a thing will feel my fury!"

As someone who teaches creative writing, I can say that the refusal to listen to feedback is toxic. You don't have to change things if you don't want to, but you should at least be open to listening to other perspectives on your work.

YEARS later, when I was sitting at a premiere showing of In Your Dreams that I had flown to New York to see, I was cringing in my seat when I saw the way she was using that moment as an example of how terrible he was to work with, and the way she was contrasting it with how magnificent it was to work with Dave Stewart, who is shown constantly telling her how great she is. It was hard to watch, honestly, because I went to that movie hoping to see Stevie shine, and that segment made her look petty and childish.

What that movie and other interviews have told me is that Stevie has reached the point where Lindsey is not allowed to give her any kind of feedback (unless, of course, he is praising her)... and I don't think it's just Lindsey that receives this treatment.

I think she has this attitude towards just about everyone now, and I don't think it's a good thing. Even geniuses can benefit from feedback. Look at "Lady." Someone should have told her repeating the song's lyrics in their entirety twice with only one small musical change at the end was boring. She could have pushed herself to think of some new lyrics, and the song would have been better.

However, no one did so... because they knew Stevie didn't want to hear it. Suggestions were not wanted and would be ignored (she even bragged about ignoring feedback in some interviews). Now, she seems to want to be surrounded by sycophants and yes-people.

She was at her best when she had people challenging her, pushing her to go further, to go outside of her comfort zone - whether it was Lindsey, Tom Petty, Don Henley (in the case of "Leather and Lace"), or Jimmy Iovine. She doesn't realize that by shutting down any and all constructive criticism, she is actually hurting the quality of her work.

It's a shame.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

I obviously love them both but I thought Stevie's reaction came off as ridiculously over-the-top. What Lindsey was doing was giving constructive feedback. He was right in that the fact that her use of pronouns was confusing, although he phrased it more gently than that.

Her reaction came across to me like this: "I can't handle even the slightest implication that what I've written isn't absolutely perfect in every way. Anyone who presumes to suggest such a thing will feel my fury!"

As someone who teaches creative writing, I can say that the refusal to listen to feedback is toxic. You don't have to change things if you don't want to, but you should at least be open to listening to other perspectives on your work.

YEARS later, when I was sitting at a premiere showing of In Your Dreams that I had flown to New York to see, I was cringing in my seat when I saw the way she was using that moment as an example of how terrible he was to work with, and the way she was contrasting it with how magnificent it was to work with Dave Stewart, who is shown constantly telling her how great she is. It was hard to watch, honestly, because I went to that movie hoping to see Stevie shine, and that segment made her look petty and childish.

What that movie and other interviews have told me is that Stevie has reached the point where Lindsey is not allowed to give her any kind of feedback (unless, of course, he is praising her)... and I don't think it's just Lindsey that receives this treatment.

I think she has this attitude towards just about everyone now, and I don't think it's a good thing. Even geniuses can benefit from feedback. Look at "Lady." Someone should have told her repeating the song's lyrics in their entirety twice with only one small musical change at the end was boring. If they had, maybe she would have pushed herself to think of some new lyrics, and the song would have been better.

However, no one did so... because they knew Stevie didn't want to hear it. Suggestions were not wanted and would be ignored (she even bragged about ignoring feedback in some interviews). Now, she seems to want to be surrounded by sycophants and yes-people.

She was at her best when she had people challenging her, pushing her to go further, to go outside of her comfort zone - whether it was Lindsey, Tom Petty, Don Henley (in the case of "Leather and Lace"), or Jimmy Iovine. She doesn't realize that by shutting down any and all constructive criticism, she is actually hurting the quality of her work.

It's a shame.

I love this post, Nancy. It's spot on, and I think describes how Stevie is to a T, these days.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

I obviously love them both but I thought Stevie's reaction came off as ridiculously over-the-top. What Lindsey was doing was giving constructive feedback. He was right in that her inconsistent use of pronouns was confusing, although he phrased it more gently than that.

Her reaction came across to me like this: "I can't handle even the slightest implication that what I've written isn't absolutely perfect in every way. Anyone who presumes to suggest such a thing will feel my fury!"

As someone who teaches creative writing, I can say that the refusal to listen to feedback is toxic. You don't have to change things if you don't want to, but you should at least be open to listening to other perspectives on your work.

YEARS later, when I was sitting at a premiere showing of In Your Dreams that I had flown to New York to see, I was cringing in my seat when I saw the way she was using that moment as an example of how terrible he was to work with, and the way she was contrasting it with how magnificent it was to work with Dave Stewart, who is shown constantly telling her how great she is. It was hard to watch, honestly, because I went to that movie hoping to see Stevie shine, and that segment made her look petty and childish.

What that movie and other interviews have told me is that Stevie has reached the point where Lindsey is not allowed to give her any kind of feedback (unless, of course, he is praising her)... and I don't think it's just Lindsey that receives this treatment.

I think she has this attitude towards just about everyone now, and I don't think it's a good thing. Even geniuses can benefit from feedback. Look at "Lady." Someone should have told her repeating the song's lyrics in their entirety twice with only one small musical change at the end was boring. If they had, maybe she would have pushed herself to think of some new lyrics, and the song would have been better.

However, no one did so... because they knew Stevie didn't want to hear it. Suggestions were not wanted and would be ignored (she even bragged about ignoring feedback in some interviews). Now, she seems to want to be surrounded by sycophants and yes-people.

She was at her best when she had people challenging her, pushing her to go further, to go outside of her comfort zone - whether it was Lindsey, Tom Petty, Don Henley (in the case of "Leather and Lace"), or Jimmy Iovine. She doesn't realize that by shutting down any and all constructive criticism, she is actually hurting the quality of her work.

It's a shame.

Amen sister.

[dreamsunwind]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

I obviously love them both but I thought Stevie's reaction came off as ridiculously over-the-top. What Lindsey was doing was giving constructive feedback. He was right in that her inconsistent use of pronouns was confusing, although he phrased it more gently than that.

Her reaction came across to me like this: "I can't handle even the slightest implication that what I've written isn't absolutely perfect in every way. Anyone who presumes to suggest such a thing will feel my fury!"

As someone who teaches creative writing, I can say that the refusal to listen to feedback is toxic. You don't have to change things if you don't want to, but you should at least be open to listening to other perspectives on your work.

YEARS later, when I was sitting at a premiere showing of In Your Dreams that I had flown to New York to see, I was cringing in my seat when I saw the way she was using that moment as an example of how terrible he was to work with, and the way she was contrasting it with how magnificent it was to work with Dave Stewart, who is shown constantly telling her how great she is. It was hard to watch, honestly, because I went to that movie hoping to see Stevie shine, and that segment made her look petty and childish.

What that movie and other interviews have told me is that Stevie has reached the point where Lindsey is not allowed to give her any kind of feedback (unless, of course, he is praising her)... and I don't think it's just Lindsey that receives this treatment.

I think she has this attitude towards just about everyone now, and I don't think it's a good thing. Even geniuses can benefit from feedback. Look at "Lady." Someone should have told her repeating the song's lyrics in their entirety twice with only one small musical change at the end was boring. She could have pushed herself to think of some new lyrics, and the song would have been better.

However, no one did so... because they knew Stevie didn't want to hear it. Suggestions were not wanted and would be ignored (she even bragged about ignoring feedback in some interviews). Now, she seems to want to be surrounded by sycophants and yes-people.

She was at her best when she had people challenging her, pushing her to go further, to go outside of her comfort zone - whether it was Lindsey, Tom Petty, Don Henley (in the case of "Leather and Lace"), or Jimmy Iovine. She doesn't realize that by shutting down any and all constructive criticism, she is actually hurting the quality of her work.

It's a shame.

This is so well put, I can tell you teach writing from it
And I agree with basically everything, I never thought he did anything wrong with what he said, perhaps there are sensitivity issues with them based on history but there really was nothing wrong with him offering a suggestion.
Stevie definitely does need people who challenge her, it helps her reach her best form. I remember this amazing interview I watched of hers where she talks about how Lindsey 'forced' her to listen to The Beatles and some other groups to learn how to sing harmony. And she said how it made her get resentful of The Beatles but look at what an amazing harmony singer she ended up being.
And that take of Storms where he's telling her that she's not singing it right, probably could've been worded better, but look at how incredible that song came out. Tusk in general, she called him an ayatollah (and he probably deserved it), but in my opinion, that album is an absolute masterpiece and contains her best selection of work (also my opinion) and I personally would not change a single thing about it.
And like you mentioned, she's also said things that imply Jimmy Iovine was that same kind of way.
That being said, I know she loved IYD and Dave Stewart but I feel like that also kind of ruined things, because after that experience she doesn't want to go back to something that's more of a struggle.
I also agree with what you said about 'Lady', that song could've been improved had someone pointed those things out.

I can understand why someone at her age would only want to do things that give her joy but like someone else mentioned, sometimes you just do things you don't necessarily love doing, because you should do them. I know I've done things in the past that I really wasn't thrilled about but I would've felt guilty if I hadn't done them. She's just being so stubborn now which is really so sad considering this is probably going to be the beginning of the curtain call for Fleetwood Mac.