Your guess on why Stevies Solo careeer eclipsed lindsey and Christines

[CarneVaca]

Tommer, I don't know just what you hear when you're listening to this stuff, but ... Stand Back? If it weren't for Prince, that song would be just another bland "woe is me, the woman child" Stevie Nicks song. Don't get me wrong. I like the song. I used to misinterpret the lyrics, and then one day when I bothered to read what she was actually saying, the song lost its mystique.

But, with all due respect, "Trouble" is a timeless song. "Stand Back" is so 1984. Although, I must admit, if Lindsey had given it his production magical touch, it might have just been a masterpiece.

Let's be fair.

As for Christine, well, I don't own her solo work. Listening to a full album of her stuff would probably put me in a coma.

[SeventhWonder]

Hmmm the reason Stevie was successfull....

to quote Courtney Love, "She's got a lot of Mojo"

[Craig]

Originally posted by CarneVaca


But, with all due respect, "Trouble" is a timeless song. "Stand Back" is so 1984. Although, I must admit, if Lindsey had given it his production magical touch, it might have just been a masterpiece.

I'm sorry but Trouble is timeless because it ripped off a 30 year old sound..you know, that decade people call the 50s. It was a nice song but come on, it sounded just like the songs on Mirage, which to me was a tired sound, the 50s revival was weak at best.

Stand back is far superior as both a song and a single, it has the great verse, the great chorus a great vamp and it climaxes very well.

I'd actually put it up there as one of the best written pop singles of all time. That's not to say it's the best thing since sliced bread, I just mean as far as song formula goes.

That's not to say that trouble goes against pop formula so that automatically makes it better..as I'm sure a fan of his or twenty would love to say, it's just to say as far as songs are written it doesn't do the same magic Stand back does.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by BombaySapphire3
"but the production was straight out of a cereal packet" Christine's make up in "Love Will Show us How' looked like it came out of a $1.49 Halloween makeup kit and was applied by Boy George's makeup artist.

Well, it was the 80's so you never know...

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Tommer, I don't know just what you hear when you're listening to this stuff, but ... Stand Back? ..."woe is me, the woman child" Stevie Nicks song. Don't get me wrong. I like the song. I used to misinterpret the lyrics, and then one day when I bothered to read what she was actually saying, the song lost its mystique.

Actually Carne, you're right. That's why millions of women related to the song and it became such a huge hit. As for you guys, well I always thought you were only interested in the video.

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by BombaySapphire3
Christine's make up in "Love Will Show us How' looked like it came out of a $1.49 Halloween makeup kit and was applied by Boy George's makeup artist.

In all fairness, I know it was miserably hot shooting the Hold Me video, but every time I see Stevie's face up close in it I think of that make-up commercial with the jingle "Gonna get that shine-free look". Granted, Stevie looked beautiful, but the make-up looked over-done. The words "third coat" come to mind. It also reminds me of the early '80s shined faces look like in the Don't you Want me Baby video. I'm glad that look has not come back.

Then again, in the Mirage concert video, Christine looks like she's in the Mummers' Parade. (You Philly folks will get that one.)

- Jake

[tommer]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Tommer, I don't know just what you hear when you're listening to this stuff, but ... Stand Back? If it weren't for Prince, that song would be just another bland "woe is me, the woman child" Stevie Nicks song. Don't get me wrong. I like the song. I used to misinterpret the lyrics, and then one day when I bothered to read what she was actually saying, the song lost its mystique.

But, with all due respect, "Trouble" is a timeless song. "Stand Back" is so 1984. Although, I must admit, if Lindsey had given it his production magical touch, it might have just been a masterpiece.

Let's be fair.

As for Christine, well, I don't own her solo work. Listening to a full album of her stuff would probably put me in a coma.

well well well... there goes the old nagging doctrine again.... if stevie's done something meaningful- it must be someone else's fault... if it's not lindsey this time- then it must be Prince's.
Prince's sole contribution to this song was a little synth hook, one of many, the guy's not even credited for it!
yes, it IS contemporary 1984, why? coz it was an effective contemporary rock piece recorded back then, and if you ask me, the music (not the 2nd video) can still hold water to this day.
Trouble, on the other hand, sounded like a jingle when it was released, but TODAY it sounds like a VERY OLD commercial.
as for christine, i suggest you try her Legendary Christine Perfect album, it's actually really good, but as for her 1984 album- beware!

[strandinthewind]

Here we go again

In the beginning and even more so now, Stevie knew/knows how to sell it. She has worked very, very hard to do so and put herself and her mostly great music out there. In fact, I think with FM, she now tries not to sell it too much in a live performance or interview out of respect for the other members. She can take all of the light and ficus from everyone else on stage; I've seen her do it on more than one occasion. I cite as an example when they inducted FM into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. SN stood away from the center to allow everyone else to speak; she did not run up to the mike to be first. But, the crowd kept screaming for her. Right or wrong, I heard no screams for anyone else. And - although she is still pretty, she was hot, hot, hot in the days when people were beginning to notice her - and right or wrong that sells (not that her music was any slouch!). Finally, if you ever are lucky enough to meet her as I have been twice (once in about 1985 and once in 1998), I think you will very quickly realize as I did that when she is in the room and even more so when talking to you, no one else appears to be in the room even though the room may be very crowded. Few people in the world have this quality.

Not that LB is not good looking, he is. He is also a brilliant musician and producer, esp. on the guitar; few can match him. Yet, right or wrong, in the public's opinion, LB's apparently careful manipulation of his image (Rumors era Japanese kimono wearing hippie, Tusk era GQ, Law and Order New Wave look, Go Insane high hair, etc.) just did not sell him to the public like SN's pretty much unwavering mystic image, which was also a premeditated thought. Also, while I like LB's solo stuff, it just never connected to as many people as SN's solo stuff. I think that is kind of a shame becasue LB's solo stuff was mostly very, very good and some of it was excellent.

As for CM, what a brilliant person and artist and, in my opinion, classy looking lady. She just by her own admission never wanted to be up front selling it and the way of the world dictates you have to do that to make it. I think that is somewhat of a shame because, in my opinion, she just could be the most talented of the three. I cite "Why" as an example and leave it at that.

Finally, I would put just about every song on Bella Donna up against any other "Rumors" era member's song either solo or with FM. Moreover, the demos for After the Glitter Fades, The Highwayman, and Leather and Lace (three of my favorites) clearly indicate the actual music was the same as the finished product and the producer just added a professional sound with a few more instruments, etc. So, although the producer and musicians clearly enhanced the already good original product, I conclude these three songs, along with most of the rest of Bella Donna in my opinion, were pure Stevie in words and music.

Moreover, even if Prince did contribute to Stand Back - so what. LB and CM never let anyone contribute to their songs? I suggest a review of the credits on their solo records will suggest the contrary. In sum, Stand Back is pure Stevie; all you have to do is watch her perform and "sell" it live even now to see it in my opinion.

Note: Nowehere in my comments should anyone get the impression that I am saying LB and CM are worthless. I am solely saying in friendly tones that in my opinion SN has musical talent, and rarely found star quality and was willing to work very very hard to put those out for the anxiously awaiting public.

[Tusk57]

Just to set the record staight, I can testify that Christine's makeup on the "Love will show us how" video was great! She has never looked better. And this comes from a big Stevie supporter! Heck, I like them all. They all have their strenghts, which when put out as a package (FM) they are the greatest! As a solo artist, Stevie wins because she was the sexiest of the bunch. In the video age that is very important.

[CarneVaca]

Stand Book without the Prince hook sounds like every other Stevie Nicks song.

Trouble, on the other hand, has beautiful guitar work and a nice sunny-day beat.

It seems to me just about all the stand-outs in Stevie's albums have major input from someone else. That applies to even The Other Side of the Mirror, one of the best songs in which is a collaboration with Bruce Hornsby. And when I say "best" in relation to that album, I use the term rather loosely.

[jeffles]

take a look who Stevie Nicks has worked with....

Her debut featured high profile duets with Tom Petty (song written by Petty and Campbell) and Don Henley. Not only that, the album was produced by Jimmy Iovine, who, at the time, was one of the top producers around.

She continued to collaborate with Iovine and her next album featured assistance from Prince and another duet with Petty. I should also be noted that the top session players such as Waddy Wachtel, Russ Kunkel, Bob Glaub, Danny Kortchmar, etc. all backed her.

There is no question that Nicks wrote some great songs, but, throughout her career, she has surrounded herself with MAJOR talent, Lindsey Buckingham did not.

Her music "spoke" to a much wider audience that Buckingham's more eclectic and quirky self-produced and performed work.

I believe Christine only made 1 solo album (not including her "Christine Perfect" album in the early 70's, which most people are unaware of anyway). 1 album doesn't make for a solo career.

[CarneVaca]

I think you guys are missing something here: Everybody likes a circus!

[Johnny Stew]

*yawn*
"Bored now."


Here I go "defending" Stevie again, but the sarcasm and cynicism leveled at her on these boards is unparalleled.
Folks only begrudgingly admit she has any talent, and then they want to contribute any success she's had, to others.

It seems that the same few people lob the same criticisms over and over again, and yet none of them ever give any clear, concise, or interesting answers as to why she remains a success some 27 years after people first noticed her.
All they can muster is some pithy little comments that add up to nothing.

If Stevie were such an untalented leach, who was successful only because of a unique image, a pretty face, and the talents of other people, the public would have long forgotten her.
And yet, her most recent solo album debuted at #5 on the charts (alongside releases by artists 30 years younger than her), and has sold over half a million copies (and is still selling)... 20 years after her first solo album was released.
A better showing than practically ANY artist in her peer group, and a far better showing than any other member of Fleetwood Mac has mustered with their solo careers.

Stevie has worked very hard over the years, and she has never treated her solo career as a "side-project" or a hobby, like the other band members have often seemed to.
And she has toured for every single solo effort (including the 'Timespace' compilation, and the 'Enchanted' boxed-set), to the point that it almost killed her.

And some may argue that the level of her contributions to Fleetwood Mac suffered because of that, but truly, 'Tango' was the only album that really got the short end of the stick.

Even before she struck out on her solo career, there were huge chunks of time when Fleetwood Mac just didn't need her, as they layed down tracks and overbubs.
Until it was time to go in and do the vocal parts, Stevie really just wasn't needed in the studio.

So she started making good use of that time... she'd record her solo albums while the rest of F.M. would go on vacations or take time off, she would then tour while they filtered back into the studio to begin recording (having given them several songs of her to evaluate while she was away), and then she'd return to them in time to do her lead and background vocals.
Once the album was finished, she then hit the road with Fleetwood Mac (having very little time, if any, to rest from the last tour she had just completed).
This was true of both 'Mirage,' and 'Behind The Mask' (and of course, 'Say You Will'), and while her presence in the studio for 'Tango' was regretably limited, she still went out on the road with the band for an extensive world tour, not long after having come off the road for her 'Rock A Little' tour (and out of Betty Ford).

I have read countless interviews with her, that cover the entire length of her career, and she has always given credit where credit is due.
She does not deny the fact that she hires very talented producers and musicians to play on her songs. She's very clear on the fact that production and instrumentation are not her forté, and that she "needs" people whose talents are in those areas.
But no one can deny that it was Stevie out on the road, year after year after year... it wasn't Jimmy, it wasn't Rupert Hine, it wasn't Lindsey... it was her.

(And in my very humble opinion, production and instrumentation is only the "icing" on a record anyway.
My ears always go to the voice and the lyrics first... everything else plays second fiddle to me.
Which is why I can enjoy one of Stevie's demos, with her playing clunky piano, as much as I can enjoy any of the high-gloss album tracks.
For me, the substance is in the lyrics and performance.)

As for why she has the most successful solo career, I think what it comes down to, is commitment.
The level of commitment to which Stevie gives her music and career, is what helped catapult her to stardom.

I realize that Stevie's albums are too "safe" for many people's tastes, and she will never be everyone's cup of tea... but I think more often than not, she struck an excellent balance between what is relatable for the masses, and what speaks to fans in a more esoteric way.
Christine recorded her solo album more because it was "expected" of her, than out of a desire to get her music out there. She even said as much in various interviews around the time.
And Lindsey often seemed to get lost in his studio, trying to come up with as many zany sounds, and offbeat special effects as possible... leaving much of the music coming off too contrived for it to click on any major emotional level with the majority of the listening audience.
In many cases I don't think it was a matter of people not "getting it," I think it just didn't appeal to people in a broad way because it sometimes lacked warmth (this based on the comments I've heard from various friends, when trying to introduce them to Lindsey's solo music).

Of course, 'Out Of The Cradle' is the exception to all rules... being an utterly amazing album both lyrically and musically, and one that almost everyone seems to enjoy. But it should also be noted that 'Out Of The Cradle' was the first album Lindsey made, without it seeming as if he just wanted a chance to try out all the gizmos and gadgets that he didn't get to use on Fleetwood Mac albums. There's a warmth, beauty, vulnerability, and humanity to the entire album, that was often missing on 'Go Insane' and 'Law & Order.'

I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for some of the things I said, but I am absolutely by no means dismissing Christine's or Lindsey's solo careers. I cannot stress enough that i am a HUGE fan of both individuals, and I think both produced some truly amazing and memorable music in their solo careers.
However, the things noted above, are what I believe contributed to Stevie's solo career "clicking" in a bigger way than the others.'

[CarneVaca]

The public is often wrong. How else would you explain Milli Vanilli and the Backstreet Boys? I'd rather keep Lindsey squarely in the column of artistic integrity, for better or for worse from a commercial standpoint.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
The public is often wrong. How else would you explain Milli Vanilli and the Backstreet Boys?

True, but Milli Vanilli vanished without a trace, and boy-bands are gasping their last breath. No matter how successful something may be out of the gate, if there isn't any talent or substance to back it up, it won't last.
Which is why I made it a point to note that Stevie's most recent hit album came 20 years after her first hit album.

Stevie may have achieved the most commercial success, but she has done so while recording the music she wants to record (with the exception of being strong-armed into recording "Sometimes It's A Bitch" 12 years ago)... so her artistic integrity remains just as true to me as Lindsey's.

For me, both Stevie and Lindsey are in the upper echelon of artists with the most artistic integrity.

I've always taken great pride in being a fan of theirs.