DISCUSSION: Stevie's songs from Say You Will

[MacShadowsBall]

Ledgies, here's the discussion thread for Stevie's songs from Say You Will.

Songs up for discussion...

1. Illume
2. Thrown Down
3. Say You Will
4. Smile at You
5. Running Through the Garden
6. Silver Girl
7. Everybody Finds Out
8. Destiny Rules
9. Goodbye Baby

18 songs is just too many for one album.

[TerraRhiannon]

I ♥ all these songs
BUT, my favourite would have to be Thrown Down & Goodbye Baby. You can hear a lot of hurt in Stevie's voice IMO, when she sings Goodbye Baby and it is just wonderful. I have my own interpretation of this song. Even though a lot of people don't like RTTG, I have to say it's a really great one to me, love Linds' vocals on this track. ~ The only one I've never heard before is Everybody Finds Out. I'll probably vote for Thrown Down in the end xD

[louielouie2000]

1. Illume I think this might just be the 21st Century's Gold Dust Woman. So avant garde, so mystical. I remember I didn't quite know what to think of it at first... the song structure just seemed all inside out, and the bass was quasi hip-hop. But this song has just aged gorgeously. To me, I think it's the best song on the record... and probably the best Mac song recorded since the Tango album. To me, this song is the perfect blend of envelope pushing and maintaining the classic Fleetwood Mac aura. If only the rest of Say You Will were this good.
2. Thrown Down I'm still pissed off at what this song became. I loved the demo, I loved the Trouble In Shangri La outtake... but hate this version. It lost all it's magic. Stevie's voice sounds flat. The production is too skeletal... no atmosphere at all. To me, this one song sums up everything that went wrong with Say You Will.
3. Say You Will Dull fluff... but cute nonetheless.
4. Smile at You If I'd never heard the demos of this song from the late '70s and early '80s, I would no doubt LOVE this song. Unfortunately, Smile At You was always my fav unreleased Stevie demo... and I just don't care for the path Lindsey took it down. Don't get me wrong, it's a really neat song... but the passion of the demos was lost in translation.
5. Running Through the Garden This song has never done anything for me.
6. Silver Girl I'm ashamed to say I like this song more and more with the years.
7. Everybody Finds Out Neat production experiment... but it just doesn't pull the heart strings.
8. Destiny Rules This is one of my all time fav Stevie penned songs. It just oozes everything about Fleetwood Mac and Stevie Nicks that I love.
9. Goodbye Baby This song was much better live. The studio version has a bit too much of a fairy tale/goodnight story vibe to it for my tastes. I don't know... to me, this is one of those demos that probably should have stayed in the vault, too.

[bluefox4000]

I must say......Most of these songs are not my cup of tea. I Love Goodbye Baby, And Thrown Down, And Say You Will. But The rest.......Sorry Guys and girls......are terrible and unmemorable. IMO. Illume Especially. The song goes On FOREVVVVVER. Further proof of the slump Stevie's been in....just one's man's view. And they really should chopped this album in half...to much fat.......man oh man.

Mick

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

Ledgies, here's the discussion thread for Stevie's songs from Say You Will.


18 songs is just too many for one album.

Well it was supposed to be a double album.

Anyway... Thrown Down, Say You Will, and Destiny Rules are the 3 strongest songs, I think. Running Through the Garden is a close tag along. I think Illume, Smile At You, Silver Girl, Goodbye Baby, and Everybody Finds Out are the weakest ones on the record.

I think one of the biggest problems of the record is the way it was mixed. Nothing against Mark Needham, but the album lacks any kind of exuberance. I was just glad, at the time, to have a new Mac record. If you watch the Destiny Rules DVD, Thrown Down was mixed really well... and then somehow on CD it lost it's punch.

[EnchantedKiwi]

ewwww Silver Girl. I love every other song except that one, it sounds awful

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

Ledgies, here's the discussion thread for Stevie's songs from Say You Will.

9. Goodbye Baby

Goodbye Baby is the only one I can tolerate.

[Artemis]

I think I'm one of the few who really enjoy SYW, especially Stevie's contributions:

1. Illume: Love this song. I wasn't keen on it at first, but it's really grown on me.
2. Thrown Down: Best song on the album, I don't get the love for the demo version vs this version. I like both, but the album version is superior, in my opinion.
3. Say You Will: Her first dud on the album. This is Stevie trying to do Christine. Do not want. The children at the end... total overkill.
4. Smile at You: I much prefer the original demos to this one. I don't like what the production does. I like the verses, but, the rest of the song... blech.
5. Running Through the Garden: Love this one. She knocks it out of the park here. I love the vocal, I love the instrumental, I love the whole song.
6. Silver Girl: There are no words.
7. Everybody Finds Out: I love this one. The dramatic angry climax of the song gets me every time.
8. Destiny Rules: It's like Gypsy 4.0... but in a good way. It's a shame that it's buried so deep in the album, it doesn't really flow well after EFO.
9. Goodbye Baby: Ehh. Not a big fan of this one. I need to be feeling really down to listen to this one.

[jellyman10]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

1. Illume I think this might just be the 21st Century's Gold Dust Woman. So avant garde, so mystical. I remember I didn't quite know what to think of it at first... the song structure just seemed all inside out, and the bass was quasi hip-hop. But this song has just aged gorgeously. To me, I think it's the best song on the record... and probably the best Mac song recorded since the Tango album. To me, this song is the perfect blend of envelope pushing and maintaining the classic Fleetwood Mac aura. If only the rest of Say You Will were this good.

Yup, I'm with you on alla that, my friend. Only thing I would add is that I will never understand what possessed anyone to draft in the chipmunks.

[holidayroad]

'Thrown Down' is a missed opportunity song. Why on earth this wasn't a single is beyond me. It is one of the best songs on the album.
I know a lot of people like 'Running Through the Garden', but I've never really cared for it. My husband didn't like it either.
The rest of the songs are good, but not great.

[cristochango]

1. Illume

I love this song, I love the background music, I love the lyrics of it. I really like the whole 9/11 idea behind the song too. I absolutely hated it when I had first listened to it, however it has since grown on me.

2. Thrown Down

One of my top 2 for the album. I know Louie says that he prefers the TISL demos but I feel like they really did this song justice.

3. Say You Will

Great track.

4. Smile at You

I much prefer the earlier demos

5. Running Through the Garden

I love this song. I don't know if all of you guys have seen it or not, but there is a demo that was recorded that was recorded for the Mirror, Mirror album (I think) But hearing how Stevie turned it from the 80's to now is awesome.

6. Silver Girl

eeh.

7. Everybody Finds Out

I think this is my favorite Stevie song off the album. I love the beat that it has and how "modern" it sounds next to all of her other material. To me, I feel as though this song makes her relevant as an artist in the 2000's decade

8. Destiny Rules

Great song, it kind of reminds me of the song Tusk.

9. Goodbye Baby

Doesn't do anything for me :/

[Silver Springs]

1. Illume - I must admit that at first buying the album I heard it once and then began to routinely skip it. But I made myself focus on the lyrics and the "lesser noticed" notes and suddenly I began to appreciate it. I'm a great lover of lyrical intention, and this to me reads perfectly as a diary entry, almost stream of consciousness.
2. Thrown Down -I like it, but I don't love it. The slightly boarish tone of the "chorus" grates on me a little in comparison with the rest of the song. I'll listen to it but it's not a song I'll stop what I'm doing to listen to.
3. Say You Will - My phone's ringtone . It may be anything less than profound, but it certainly makes up for it in fun. I think the song is the equivelant of R.E.M's Shiny Happy People, although I hope it goes down a little better with the band.
4. Smile at You - I must admit that I prefer Stevie's unreleased demo track. But the lyrics do mean alot to me, and I do enjoy the anger that's present in Stevie's voice occasionally. But I can't help but feel it's lost something in production
5. Running Through the Garden - This song has some pretty delicious guitar riffs, and Stevie belting out her more energetic parts just makes you want to pick up a hairbrush and join in.
6. Silver Girl - Meh.
7. Everybody Finds Out - Probably the only song on the album that actually sounds as though it could have been released by a more contemporary artist. Somewhat stunted and jittery in its composition but all in all it's a good track.
8. Destiny Rules - I think with a little fiddling and change in production this song could have been right at home on Rumours as a concept.
9. Goodbye Baby - Some people do dismiss this song as far too sappy and bordering on sickly, but I love the melodic and tender approach to the song. It doesn't quite fit onto the album, in my opinion, but it's just that lovely that I don't even care.

[TrueFaith77]

1. Illume - Provides the political/historical context for the entire album. I realized this was a great album when I caught the way this song links with "Destiny Rules." "It's just like a river, ooh it's never ending / I cannot pretend that the heartache goes away" -- From simile to romantic analogy, this is Stevie @ her best, defining the broken-hearted culture the album addresses.

2. Thrown Down - The best song on the album. As autobiography, what a glimpse into her feelings during The Dance reunion, and what a summation of Lindsey the man:

You've shaken your faith in me, no
You've shaken my faith in everything else
A decision no one makes, and now you're going home
Faith is a hard thing to hold on to
Something inside you says I don't have to
You're not like other people, you do what you want to
You're not like other people, you do what you want to

Lindsey's cascading guitars make this song shimmer and the ideas glow. It makes one person's vibrant vision of another into a political-existential act. The essence of the Mac.

3. Say You Will - The album's profound political entreaty--and, thus, the album's appropriate title (sorry, Linds!). Literally, the song is a plea to Christine (the album's signifying absence). But more than that, it is a plea to the culture, to the blues-bearing knowledge to return which Lindsey-and-Stevie experience must now express. That kid chorus: is Stevie's hope.

4. Smile at You - ChiliD showed me the light. McVie's bass is a wonder on this track (and this album, really). The track begins the radical midpoint Stevie trilogy which takes us from Rumours-era heartbreak to...

5. Running Through the Garden - ...to the drug decades' excess to ameliorate the pain (the awesome image of frantic flower-picking in an overgrown garden)...

6. Silver Girl - ...to contemporary hard-won knowledge which amounts to a social vision that connects uncannily with Mary Gaitskill:

A shadow moves across her face
You cannot see her soul
Unless she lets you...
See her soul

7. Everybody Finds Out - Supposedly about Monica Lewinsky, it's surprising this was in the Mac pile--until you hear it. Everytime I play this for someone who's never heard it, they always think it's a remix of a Stevie song. Anyway, the instensity--those strings!--of this song is profound--the era's definitive trackj about public/private sexuality. MJ would approve.

8. Destiny Rules - One critic likened Lindsey's playing on this track to Johnny Marr. There is no higher praise. Again, the link up to Illume is key as it holds up the album's dual arteries leading to an essential broken heart. Also, what a profound concept for a song--its portrayal of isolation and metaphysical musing is profound. But 9/11 happened. It changed EVERYTHING. Destiny Rules.

9. Goodbye Baby - At last, catharsis.

[elle]

I feel somewhat bad discussing this group of songs, since my opinion of them is so low. Here it goes anyway: I think that huge difference in quality between this group of songs and Lindsey's (together with the absence of the 3rd writer to balance it out) is one of the big reasons album sounds like two slapped together.

That said, taken on their own TD and SYW are cute/pleasant to listen to, and sometimes I don't mind listening to EFO and GB.

I don't find the recycling of the same fragment in Illume and Destiny Rules as providing any deep meaning or cohesiveness, although it might have been intended to do so (I feel the same way about recycling in Not That Funny and IKINW on Tusk).

The only song of this group that I absolutely love listening to is Destiny Rules, and that's because of the guitar parts (nasal singing not being my favorite).

The rest of these songs are boring and/or annoying, to me (Silver Girl being the worst), and I almost always skip them, now.

[HejiraNYC]

What about "Not Make Believe?"

Stevie's songs on this album were largely at the mercy of Lindsey's production. He made good songs suck and made sucky songs good.

Good songs with sucky production:

-Smile at You
-Say You Will
-Running Through the Garden

Sucky songs that were made good:

-Illume
-Not Make Believe
-Goodbye Baby

Good songs and good production:

-Destiny Rules
-Thrown Down

Sucky songs and sucky production:

-Silver Girl
-Everybody Finds Out