Why does everyone seem to hate Lindsey's Mirage songs?

trackaghost · #1 06-20-2004, 06:53 PM

Especially Empire State. I remember that being one of my favourites when I first got the album.
But there's some great stuff on there: Book Of Love, Can't Go Back, Eyes Of The World and, erm, Oh Diane....

Anyway, what do y'all think?

golden braid · #2 06-21-2004, 12:05 AM

Empire State is not my favorite but I like the others. I love Eyes of the World and I think Oh Diane, Can't Go Back, and Book of Love are really catchy too. I actually like some of the Mirage demos of these songs because I think they're a little bit edgier like Oh Diane.

Johnny Stew · #3 06-21-2004, 01:15 AM

I definitely don't hate them... not by a long shot... but I think comparatively, they're some of his weakest Mac tracks, so I think that's why so many people cite them as their least favorites.

shackin'up · #4 06-21-2004, 03:14 AM

i only have second thoughts about Oh diane. The rest is gorgeous. I've always loved Mirage because of his songs and Gypsy.

blinker12 · #5 06-21-2004, 04:35 AM

I don't hate them -- except for "Oh Diane," which I definitely hate -- but most are just mediocre Beach Boys knock-offs.

Claudia · #6 06-21-2004, 05:30 AM

I don't like Oh Diane much either but I definately like Book Of Love, Can't Go Back, Eyes Of The World and Empire State. And Mirage is one of my favourite Fleetwood Mac albums.

seteca · #7 06-21-2004, 07:51 AM

I LOVE all of LB's songs on Mirage, including "Oh Diane".

I always thought it was funny how a lot of people (including Lindsey) claim that Mirage was deliberately made more "mainstream like Rumours" after the "failure" of Tusk, and yet ALL of his songs blatantly have his "left of field" signature sound.

dissention · #8 06-21-2004, 10:09 AM

They aren't his best, but they aren't too bad. The only one I really don't care for is Empire State. Oh Diane is one of my favorites.

sodascouts · #9 06-21-2004, 11:12 AM

Well, I guess a lot of the Mirage stuff seems uninspired and trite. The jerky, sing-songy repetitive melody and limited lyrics make Empire State just flat out annoying, IMO. Book of Love may be postmodern in its references but it's still grating to listen to, especially with its pseudo-retro sound that doesn't quite come off. And the stupid "eyes.... eyes.... eyes.... eyes..... eyes.... eyes.... eyes..... eyes..." chant ruins EOTW for me every time. (Note: it is cool live). On a positive note, I've grown to like Can't Go Back and have always enjoyed Oh Diane, though they're still not my favorite Lindsey Mac songs by any means.

Well, you asked. lol

wondergirl9847 · #10 06-21-2004, 11:22 AM

I love all the songs, yep, even Empire State. *plink plink*

My fave Mirage LB song is Can't Go Back. I think I'll break out Mirage today and take a listen to it.

I'm one of those freaks of nature who rarely despises a song so much they can't listen to it. I can tolerate just about anything, it's just a matter of my mood. I love all kinds of music and I'm a radio dial flipper pro.

On the radio right now: Kim Wilde's cover of Keep Me Hangin' On!! LOVE this song!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

strandinthewind · #11 06-21-2004, 11:23 AM

Mirage is one of my fav. FM records and sometimes it is my fav. I like every song on it.

Mari · #12 06-21-2004, 11:49 AM

I don't hate those songs, but apart from EOTW, I don't care much for them either

face of glass · #13 06-21-2004, 12:55 PM

I find very little wrong in Lindsey's share of the Mirage tracks. "Oh Diane" (note to Nancy, isn't "love is like a grain of sand/slipping through my hand" similar to another masturbation reference in "The Ledge"; "slipping through my fingers, watching how it grows"?

) may be the "Steal Your Heart Away" of this album in that its quirks aren't noticeable but it's still enjoyable and has the same attention to detail as the rest of them. "Can't Go Back" is reminiscent of the early Beatles but its atmosphere simply comes from a different place. "Eyes Of The World" takes a minimal beat and puts the verses of "Stephanie" into the Tusk context. "Empire State" is classic Buckingham, eccentric fun with the harp bringing in ye grande sophistication for this intentional attempt to win back the East Coast fans after "That's How We Do It In LA".

Hate the track if you wish but to me it doesn't seem to be anything else but a matter of that harmony grating on some people's nerves. No problems here though. "Goodbye Angel" is a darn moving beauty of a thing that should have been on the album but obviously Mr. Mastermind thought that the lyric would have been too close to the Rumours format.

Finally, "Book Of Love". This song seems to encapsulate nearly everything about Lindsey's work from 1981 to 1983. You have your usual '50s I-IV-V chord structure but the delivery is really angry and yet in the chorus he is laughing at himself for some weird reason. Why on earth is that? The usual answer that I have to this is that it's Lindsey doing the sonic painting thing again. He has two very different emotions there put together, both in '50s doo-wop ballad for chrissake! And yet it still doesn't confuse me. It feels very natural, in fact. By laughing at himself he proves that he's trying to put himself above the heartbreak. He's trying to survive, he's trying to move on. Maybe it's self-deception as some people think, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seteca

I always thought it was funny how a lot of people (including Lindsey) claim that Mirage was deliberately made more "mainstream like Rumours" after the "failure" of Tusk, and yet ALL of his songs blatantly have his "left of field" signature sound.

It's really interesting that Lindsey has been disappointed with the album in retrospect because his material isn't all that different from Law And Order or the National Lampoon songs. Why should he have felt the pressure then? Everything he's done since Tusk, including his own solo albums, is a compromise between Rumours and Tusk so what is the difference with Mirage? "Hold Me" and "Gypsy", the two big hit singles, own a lot of their idiosyncracy to Lindsey so he probably wasn't told to keep his production quirks off them. "Eyes Of The World" is intentionally underproduced so that it wouldn't be the "Go Your Own Way" of the album. In fact, Tango In The Night seems somewhat closer to the "big sellout" than Mirage; "Everywhere" and "Mystified" are so minimalistic that they're approaching inoffensive muzak. "Little Lies" and "Seven Wonders", two great songs, don't have the quirks on the larger scale. And yet he still thinks Tango was a more satisfactory work for him.

Maybe he was disappointed with the fact that there was some need to return to the Rumours format, in that the band was forced to play together on nearly every song (for the sake of that all-important group chemistry) and still it didn't result into a similar commercial success. Yet he still eliminated Stevie's and Christine's contributions from his own songs almost totally (Chris is obviously on "EOTW", but is she anywhere else?). Now was it so important for him to keep Mick and John away from his songs? Maybe he appreciates Tango more because they're practically him solo while the Mirage songs are not? Who knows. But I don't think Mirage is any more lackluster or weaker than anything else he's done within FM. Point finally made.

sodascouts · #14 06-21-2004, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by face of glass

"Oh Diane" (note to Nancy, isn't "love is like a grain of sand/slipping through my hand" similar to another masturbation reference in "The Ledge"; "slipping through my fingers, watching how it grows"?

)

Sorry, I can't picture Lindsey comparing his "little demon" to a grain of sand. You know Gaius, you can use your hand for other things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by face of glass

It's really interesting that Lindsey has been disappointed with the album in retrospect because his material isn't all that different from Law And Order or the National Lampoon songs. Why should he have felt the pressure then? Everything he's done since Tusk, including his own solo albums, is a compromise between Rumours and Tusk so what is the difference with Mirage? "Hold Me" and "Gypsy", the two big hit singles, own a lot of their idiosyncracy to Lindsey so he probably wasn't told to keep his production quirks off them. "Eyes Of The World" is intentionally underproduced so that it wouldn't be the "Go Your Own Way" of the album. In fact, Tango In The Night seems somewhat closer to the "big sellout" than Mirage; "Everywhere" and "Mystified" are so minimalistic that they're approaching inoffensive muzak. "Little Lies" and "Seven Wonders", two great songs, don't have the quirks on the larger scale. And yet he still thinks Tango was a more satisfactory work for him.

Maybe he was disappointed with the fact that there was some need to return to the Rumours format, in that the band was forced to play together on nearly every song (for the sake of that all-important group chemistry) and still it didn't result into a similar commercial success. Yet he still eliminated Stevie's and Christine's contributions from his own songs almost totally (Chris is obviously on "EOTW", but is she anywhere else?). Now was it so important for him to keep Mick and John away from his songs? Maybe he appreciates Tango more because they're practically him solo while the Mirage songs are not? Who knows. But I don't think Mirage is any more lackluster or weaker than anything else he's done within FM. Point finally made.

This is very interesting. I do think that Lindsey did better work on TITN than on Mirage for his OWN songs (with the obvious exception), but it does seem that he didn't do as much for the others. Yes, he didn't have much to worth with regarding Stevie's songs but surely he could have arranged WTTR....S and WISYA to be less painful to listen to. And a lot of Christine's stuff is like muzac there. I think Lindsey may hate Mirage for what it represents to him - Mick saying "Tusk didn't work, we'll do things my way now." That could sour an experience for anyone.

face of glass · #15 06-21-2004, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sodascouts

Sorry, I can't picture Lindsey comparing his "little demon" to a grain of sand.

But what if he's comparing a grain of sand to what comes out of the demon?

Quote:

I think Lindsey may hate Mirage for what it represents to him - Mick saying "Tusk didn't work, we'll do things my way now." That could sour an experience for anyone.

A valid point Nancy. There's this anecdote from the beginning of the Tango sessions; Mick had called in an outside producer for the band because Lindsey was initially reluctant to take the charge. That guy didn't last long and it was probably Mick's way of telling Lindsey "look, no one else but you can do this". So Lindsey must have felt that the band were more accepting of him at that point, maybe they even begged him to do his thing.