|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#76
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
So no, you may not have actually used the word "lie," but it's just a matter of semantics, when you stated that you believe Stevie was telling a story that wasn't true. IE:, a lie. But hey, I'm just a dumb Stevie fan, who apparently doesn't have a grasp on the English language, so what do I know? Quote:
So I'm still not sure why you consider that alternate mix of "When I See You Again" to be proof that your theory has to be the only one that's right. Quote:
Anything else you read into it is completely on you and your ego, buddy. At any rate, this whole thing has become absolutely ridiculous.
__________________
"Although the arrogance of fame lingers like a thick cloud around the famous, the sun always seems to shine for Stevie." -- Richard Dashut, 2014 Last edited by Johnny Stew; 01-10-2004 at 09:02 PM.. |
#77
|
|||
|
|||
This is just getting tedious now. And boring. Not worth my time.
|
#78
|
|||
|
|||
well what was a thread about When I See You Again SUPPOSED to generate Could you imagine how bad it would get if this was The Second Time appreciation Thread
__________________
Never Dance with the Devil He Will Burn You Down |
#79
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#80
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Shut up Stew. |
#81
|
||||
|
||||
Eh...er....uh.....um....
I just wanted to step in and say that I believe OOTC was a "flop" because of the music industry at that particular time. In 1992, it was all about Nirvana, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, etc. Nobody wanted to hear a guy from that old, outdated group.
I believe that most people listen to music for entertainment, it's not in their heart and soul. They don't CONNECT with it. For us FM/Lindsey/Stevie fans, it's in our soul, we "get" this music. That goes for any other hardcore whatever-group/singer fan. Those out there who love Cher or Metallica or Eminem...they "get" their music and connect with it. I'm not talking about the casual music listeners, the ones who are fickle. They, unfortunately, are the ones that record companies bow down to. And I agree, OOTC is a masterpiece.
__________________
**Christy** |
#82
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
He's at it again!
“The battle rages on”, to quote an ill-advised Deep Purple album. Cut my hands off if I write too much, Johnny (especially since you're in the middle of some other argument), but it just happens. It has nothing to do with boosting my ego or something like that.
Quote:
Also, your point about a bad lyric immediately rendering a song with “the most beautiful music with the world’s best singer performing it” doesn’t work for me, at least. I’ve always been capable of getting past a poor lyric if there’s something in the song that’s attractive to me; there’s another reason why I’ve never been bothered by Lindsey’s “weak early lyrics”. Remember as well that it isn’t always the lyric itself that matters; it’s the way it’s sung. A poor singer can ruin a great lyric by emphasizing the wrong words while having no understanding of nuances. A great singer can hide all the flaws of a poor or minimal lyric by his/her delivery. What I think of the following points is basically a repetition of what I wrote on the “FM on Dick Clark’s Primetime...” thread, but since you probably haven’t paid attention to what I said there, I’ll repeat them here, just for you. Quote:
I’m certainly not going to start pretending that I find Stevie a great songwriter these days. She was good in the ‘70s and early ‘80s when her basic, never-changing way of writing music still had its freshness. A lot of those songs (not all of them, though) could be covered by others because they still had certain appeal outside the Nicksian mode of performing. As for the stuff made after that, though, no possibility of that ever happening. You need Stevie’s voice to make the recent demos work. It’s the performance that’s her main focus in making of music; the same way Lindsey pays most attention to the way the overall track will sound like. I haven’t ever thought that Lindsey or Stevie are great songwriters in the traditional sense; they cover up what they lack in that area through other measures and do it admirably. Quote:
Quote:
What Lindsey is coming up with is the overall atmosphere. It is he who gives Stevie’s demos their own special identities, so that even those people who are not fans are capable of hearing significant differences. The other producers have been less successful in that in my opinion. Quote:
It isn’t just any guitar in there! It’s Lindsey Buckingham’s guitar! You think there’s that much production in “Landslide”? It’s always been a “simple” acoustic track. There’s nothing of significance lost in concert. I do think it’s one of Stevie’s best written songs (and obviously so do those who have covered it) but a lot of the fascination comes from Lindsey’s playing and what notes from the chords he emphasizes. I haven’t ever heard that someone would have actually suggested Lindsey to play a particular guitar part (except for the “SOTM” debacle ). He’s coming up with all of that himself. Even Ken Caillat hinted at that in his Q&A. And I certainly don’t believe that Stevie herself would have suggested something in particular with her rudimentary playing skills. Do you remember a confession of hers while talking to the audience on one particular night during the current tour? It was Lindsey who taught her to play “Landslide” without a pick (or that’s how I think it went). So there. Quote:
Quote:
I have to agree that it did feel a bit too mainstream when I first heard it. Some of it could be attributed to Lindsey’s personal growth; he didn’t feel like he would have to do sonic hooliganism all over the album anymore. But it’s also because he was on his own at that point. He knew that he would have to do something that would be somehow reminiscent of FM’s records. He (and Richard) was on his own as a writer; he wouldn’t be capable of the same kind of diversity that there was on the FM records if he was to follow the established pattern of making an album that’s not relative to what FM had done before. So there’s “normal” stuff on the album; songs like “Soul Drifter”, “Countdown” and “You Do Or You Don’t” are to OOTC what “Everywhere”, “Little Lies” and “Seven Wonders” are to TITN. It just adds to the picture and makes it more complete. Sure, you could say that he desperately wanted the stuff to sell and you could be right. But why did it not sell? Quote:
Lindsey is, has been since the days of Tusk, in between two different groups of audience. There’s the large masses who want another “Go Your Own Way” and there’s the smaller bunch of elitist snobs who embrace the art rock ethics of experiments, spontaneity and quirkiness (and yes Sharon, I do think that punk rock was an art movement too). When the bands who appeal to the second group achieved some prominence, Lindsey got interested too. It isn’t just because he didn’t want to do another Rumours, it’s because he felt a genuine affection to that music and wanted to do his own skewed version of it. Which is what he did. He’s been struggling between two personalities since then; there’s this side of him that knows how to make a song appealing through manners of traditional musicianship, then there’s this another side that always questions things and wants to add something unusual into the mix. Both sides are at work throughout OOTC too. There’s this guy who puts the “crooner” vocal on the verses of “Don’t Look Down” and there’s this guy who throws these left-field harmonies to the chorus. This “weirder” guy throws in the “tap-dancing” of “Wrong”. He’s also responsible of the “This Is The Time” and the murky depression of “Street Of Dreams”. He’s on every track of the album in my opinion, sometimes “in the shade”, sometimes far more visible. And so he is there on SYW too, even on “Steal Your Heart Away” (but not prominently enough, if you ask me). You’ll never achieve great success if you’re working in between two target groups; in this case the audience of “adult-oriented” rock and the experimental, hipper circles. It’s the main fascination of Buckingham for me though, that he straddles the fence between the two extremes and never gives in to produce something totally inaccessible or bow to the lowest common denominator. It’s a shame that the elitists are far too interested in what is hip and thus they don’t care for the “corporate rock sell-out” that they think Lindsey is. It’s an equal shame that the mainstream has never picked up on an entire Lindsey album because “it’s too weird and druggy”. I wish both sides could open up their horizons, but that’s still very unlikely to happen. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Despite all the unbiased approach (hey, I loved FM and Stevie's songs in the band before I even gave her solo albums a chance) that I had towards Bella Donna I still found the record far too samey on the first listen. The same with The Wild Heart. Nothing stood out for me, except for rockers like “Edge Of Seventeen” and “Stand Back”. I seriously thought both albums were boring. Then a few listens more and I’m enjoying both albums pretty much throughout. The thing is, are there people willing to go through more than a couple of listens of each Stevie album. Will they notice the differences that fast? If they will, then they will most likely become fans. I still hold up the fact that Lindsey’s productions for Stevie all have easily discernible different personalities. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
As for me, I’ve never necessarily needed the perfect running order or the homogenous sound. I like the approach on SYW where the changes in sound are almost schizophrenic. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think that if there was a particular idea into which Stevie would like a particular song to develop, she’d draw stronger, more obvious lines into her sketches. “SOTM”, which still went through a metamorphosis, seems like a rare exception. If she doesn’t have the instrumental skills to express everything, she could always get one of her friends in and try to convey what she wants to him/her. But nah, whenever there’s a rough Nicks demo with Stevie on her own, I feel that there’s still a “long way to go”. I like the more arranged recent ones, like “Space Needle”, but even those things are not entirely a product of Stevie’s mind. Sure, she may know what she wants but she just doesn’t know how to get there. She would’ve managed to do one or two good albums on her own in the ‘70s as a singer-songwriter but no more than that. Quote:
I appreciate the way LB approached it in the studio. He knew that no matter how hot a studio take they might get out of it, it would still be exceeded by the live versions because of the looser environment. It would be comparable to some live takes by The Who and Deep Purple, in that the band would completely annihilate the studio version of a certain song by exceeding it completely. LB approached “SOTM” differently, he didn’t want to do a milder studio counterpart; he gave the song a subtler treatment with harmonies that the band wasn’t capable of pulling off live. Finally, I apologize to those who actually have the interest to wade through all this stuff. This particular manner of participating in threads is mainly dictated by the current situation in my life. Not all dancing on the roses, that.
__________________
Gaius ^ - "a selfindulged, but funny butthead of a Fin" - Shackin'up |
#83
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
The beauty of Bella Donna and The Wild Heart is that Stevie was allowed to be Stevie to a greater extent than she had been allowed to before. And it worked While we can have academic discussions about whether certain songs would have been better or worse had Lindsey arranged them, it becomes moot when you consider how truly good those albums are. Sure there are some self-indulgent moments, but let's face it, Stevie had not been allowed any self-indulgence on record until she went solo, while one could certainly make the argument that Lindsey had done so quite extensively on Tusk, with what I consider to be stellar results. But after The Wild Heart, one gets the sense that Stevie had become such a big star that the people around her in the studio became timid about editing and producing her. Her self-indulgence became unchecked, and therefore a huge problem. Jimmy Iovine pretty much laid down the law for Bella Donna, but by Rock a Little it looks as if she's getting away with some truly bad ideas. It got worse later. Sometimes success becomes your biggest problem. Lindsey fully realizes this, which is why his solo records are what they are. But I think he wants his cake and eat it too. He wants to have the creativity and envelope-pushing abilities and the commercial success. Which, I believe, is why SYW is somewhat disjointed. There's some capitulation to commercial interests very evident in that album, whereas in Out of the Cradle, while a lot of the stuff is "poppy," I wouldn't necessarily say it is poppy in a commercial way. Last edited by CarneVaca; 01-12-2004 at 12:05 PM.. |
#84
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#85
|
||||
|
||||
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CarneVaca
Quote:
Quote:
|
#86
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Quote:
Was my reaction unwarranted? Perhaps, but my use of profanity was not meant as an insult; it was more along the lines of: "Hey, give me a break, of course I know she can use a [expletive] slider." Hey, I'm a New Yorker. That's just common vernacular here. So hit me for tone. But it goes both ways, no? Do you detect some sarcasm, and even a hint of exasperation, in Mr. Stew's message? if you're going to use a certain tone, expect the same in return, especially considering my use of sarcasm has been pointed out to me as a problem by none other than Johnny Stew himself. And this is what I mean by "stick to moderating." If you want to get down and dirty, pass the baton. And, Nancy, let's face it. As far as tone goes, you're in no position to criticize anyone. |
#87
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#88
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#89
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#90
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Quote:
Concerning the commercial success aspect--- every FM album and even the LB albums have their hit single attempts. The difference to me is that these other albums have a certain basic ground structure and sound. There is a TITN sound. There is a OOTC sound. There is of course a "TUSK" sound (although for me Christines approach doesn't fit on the concept of the album, in difference to f.e. Mirage or TITN) But SYW is lacking of this sound. It's a puzzle, a song compilation, a caleidoscope but not an album in the old fashioned sense. I like most of the songs very much and I believe there is no real clunker except of SG. (and BTLH still didn't belong there) Gaius, Chili D, Nancy and some others already gave a hint how this incoherent production problem could have been handled (but not solved)- the setlist. I hope this post helps you to understand every aspect of the song "When I see you again". I did my best to clarify it and think I did so pretty good. |
|
|
Blues: The British Connection by Bob Brunning
$12.99
1960s Pop - Hardcover By Brunning, Bob - GOOD
$6.50
Heavy Metal - Hardcover By Brunning, Bob - GOOD
$8.85
Bob Brunning Sound Trackers Music Series Hardcover 6 Book Lot Pop, Metal, Reggae
$79.99
1970s Pop - Hardcover By Brunning, Bob - GOOD
$6.66