When I See You Again Appreciation Post!

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by dissention
OOTC was his most mainstream work up until that point in his career. The reason it failed was because the general public had forgotten about him, the promotion behind it stunk, and it wasn't the hippest kind of music at the time.

'Out Of The Cradle' deserved far more recognition and success than it received, but to say that the promotion behind it stunk, isn't very accurate.

They released four singles to radio, some of which featured special mixes to help make them even more radio-friendly... they filmed four promo videos... Lindsey appeared on Lettermen (twice), Leno (twice), Live with Regis & Kathy Lee, ABC In Concert, PBS, and VH1... there were multiple print ads that ran in magazines like Rolling Stone... Lindsey toured (even opened for Tina Turner for a while!)... and so on.

That is a pretty big promotional blitz for an album that peaked at #128 on the Billboard Top 200 Albums chart.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by dissention
Aren't you just the teeniest bit proud of me for staying out of this thread with my negative WISYA energy?

I deserve a medal!

I have to say that I was actually going to post earlier in this thread about how much I appreciated the fact that you hadn't jumped in to slam the song... given how much I know you dislike it.

But I refrained, because I didn't want it to sound like a veiled slap in the face to anyone who did post something negative about it.

But yes, you definitely deserve a medal!!!

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew


I have to say that I was actually going to post earlier in this thread about how much I appreciated the fact that you hadn't jumped in to slam the song... given how much I know you dislike it.

But I refrained, because I didn't want it to sound like a veiled slap in the face to anyone who did post something negative about it.

But yes, you definitely deserve a medal!!!

Thanks, doll.

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
'Out Of The Cradle' deserved far more recognition and success than it received, but to say that the promotion behind it stunk, isn't very accurate.

They released four singles to radio, some of which featured special mixes to help make them even more radio-friendly... they filmed four promo videos... Lindsey appeared on Lettermen (twice), Leno (twice), Live with Regis & Kathy Lee, ABC In Concert, PBS, and VH1... there were multiple print ads that ran in magazines like Rolling Stone... Lindsey toured (even opened for Tina Turner for a while!)... and so on.

That is a pretty big promotional blitz for an album that peaked at #128 on the Billboard Top 200 Albums chart.

Let's not forget that Lindsey, the artist, paid mostly for the videos and when serviced, they didn't get much rotation.

I don't believe the number of singles released has much bearing, either, because if it isn't the kind of music that is going to do well on radio, not one of them is going to get airplay.

What I meant was that the promotion being given out by Lindsey and his label wasn't getting picked up by the national media or the public. Unfortunate, IMO, because it's a masterpiece.

[dissention]

Originally posted by trackaghost
I feel bad now about dissing Lindsey. I do think he's amazing and I've changed my mind ("it's a woman's right" hehe) I do love OOTC, but I still reckon it's too slick and shiny and I would like it more without the blinding sheen!

Don't feel bad, at least the two of us got a good discussion out of it!

[dissention]

Originally posted by trackaghost
I still think part of the reason OOTC didn't do as well was because it was too slick. I'm not saying that was the whole reason, but part of the reason definitely, esp considering it was a time when people were embracing rawer music.
But yes, I completely agree about Rock A Little. It's not one of my favourites although there are several songs off that record which I love.

I have to say that I agree.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by dissention
Let's not forget that Lindsey, the artist, paid mostly for the videos and when serviced, they didn't get much rotation.

I don't believe the number of singles released has much bearing, either, because if it isn't the kind of music that is going to do well on radio, not one of them is going to get airplay.

What I meant was that the promotion being given out by Lindsey and his label wasn't getting picked up by the national media or the public.

Ah, ok... on that last point we can agree.

I took your comments to mean that the record company/Powers That Be didn't do enough to promote the album. And in my opinion, releasing four singles (the hope is always that they WILL get played), etc., is a pretty decent show of faith for an album that never sold big numbers.

[Johnny Stew]

For Gaius....

Forgive me for not replying in a more involved manner, but you made so many points, that I'd be here forever trying to fashion all of my responses into a concise post.

I just wanted to say that i do agree with you, that Lindsey and Stevie seem to bring out the best in each other.
She always seems more inspired and daring with him... and he always seems to be at his best when producing one of her songs.

But, having said that, I don't think Stevie's other producers were necessarily taking the easy way out, or following in Lindsey's footsteps.
I think that the way in which Stevie writes, somewhat dictates the progression the songs will take on their way to being a finished product.

"Sisters Of The Moon" is a good example: Lindsey approached the song in a dark, moody fashion, and his electric guitar touches throughout are perfect.
But... in the piano demo of the song, Stevie is clearly playing the basis of those guitar parts. Albeit, in a slower fashion, and with less finesse.

Certainly there have been other songs where Lindsey's approach was not as obvious, based on the sound of the demo... "Gypsy" being a good example of that... but for the most part (and this is entirely my opinion) what the songs will end up becoming, is well laid-out in Stevie's original demos.

It's the other elements that Lindsey adds... the left-of-center instrumental touches, for example... that help the songs to stand out that much more.

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
"Sisters Of The Moon" is a good example: Lindsey approached the song in a dark, moody fashion, and his electric guitar touches throughout are perfect.
But... in the piano demo of the song, Stevie is clearly playing the basis of those guitar parts. Albeit, in a slower fashion, and with less finesse.

The master reel piano demo ("pretty weird, huh?") that's floating around is astonishing. She sounds absolutely amazing on it. I much prefer it to the album version.

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Down, boy! Methinks you're getting waaaaay too defensive here. I'm not questioning whether your beloved Nicks can push up a f*cking slider on a soundboard.

Woah, where did this come from? Totally uncalled for.

Originally posted by Johnny Stew

She also never said that Lindsey was shocked or surprised when the album was released, and he heard that he was the only one singing at the end of the song. That's putting words into her mouth.

All she ever said was that Lindsey would not think to sing solo at the end of one of her songs, and that, in order to get the vibe she was after, she had to sing the lines along with him, and then remove her voice from the mix.

She very well could have played "her" mix for the band five minutes later to show them how she had been wanting it to sound all along.

Again, as I said previously, I'm 100% positive that Lindsey had to be aware of what she did fairly quickly after the fact, as these mixes must get final approval from all involved before they're sent off to be mastered.
I don't think I ever implied that she pulled a major fast-one on Lindsey, and that he was in the dark the entire time.

I've read somewhere - was it Mick's book? That she did without Lindsey's knowledge and then played the "new and improved" version for the band along with Lindsey. Lindsey wanted to change it back, but the band outvoted him, agreeing with Stevie that it sounded better - and so it stayed. Stevie only pulled a "fast one" by having the band listen to the version with her vocals turned down without consulting Lindsey first. It was an idea which Lindsey had already vetoed but which the rest of the band could now see was a good one. You go Stevie!

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by dissention
The master reel piano demo ("pretty weird, huh?") that's floating around is astonishing. She sounds absolutely amazing on it. I much prefer it to the album version.

Amen - she is resplendent on it and another copy I have.

For me, I think SOTM is one of the songs , probably with SN's approval for all we know, somewhat ruined for me. the Tusk version is just too produced (albeit brilliantly) for me. In any event, I still like the Tusk version.

The same could be said about John Shanks and POTU. I like the TISL version, but the piano demo is just heartwrenching.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Well, isn't that sweet? In a matter of a few sentences, you painted me like some over-emotional and irrational fan, who has no idea what they're talking about.

I need not paint you in any way, Johnny. Don't attribute to me more power than I have.

And sure, "took my voice off" is how she described it, but I doubt anyone expects Stevie to go into some long technical explanation as to how one would go about fiddling with various knobs in order to drop their voice out of a mix.

Geezus... Give me a break, man. You're like dog with a bone about his stuff. Read her own words. If you don't get that she's trying to convey that she thinks she was so clever to sneak into the studio and pull this stunt you're not reading it right then. All I'm saying is it is highly unlikely it happened that way. Stevie has been known to exaggerate. And besides, she probably was so coked up at the time, so how could she remember?

Perhaps you should stick to moderating.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I need not paint you in any way, Johnny. Don't attribute to me more power than I have.



Geezus... Give me a break, man. You're like dog with a bone about his stuff. Read her own words. If you don't get that she's trying to convey that she thinks she was so clever to sneak into the studio and pull this stunt you're not reading it right then. All I'm saying is it is highly unlikely it happened that way. Stevie has been known to exaggerate. And besides, she probably was so coked up at the time, so how could she remember?

Perhaps you should stick to moderating.

Technically, I think she had quit coke and gone through rehab by then - but I could be wrong as I am unsure how much of TITN was recorded prior to Betty Ford. Stevie did send in tapes from the road.

Personally, I think all Stevie is saying is she wanted LB to sing in a certain manner that he normally does not sing in. So, she got him to sing in her preferred manner by tricking him by singing it with him (thus getting him into the preferred voice) and then taking her voice off of or out of it.

Oh to have been a fly on the wall!!!!

[Johnny Stew]

That she may have romanticized her actions by using the phrases "snuck in" and "took her voice off," rather than giving a detailed technical explanation of the mixing process, was not in question.
You stated outright that it was all a big lie, and that Lindsey just went out and recorded the vocal by himself.

I merely tried to offer reasons and evidence (the alternate take that exists with both vocalists, for example), as to how her story could very well be true... even if she had simplified it when she spoke about it with Creem Magazine.

Meanwhile, I haven't seen you offer any evidence or proof to contradict Stevie's story, or to prove why you're certain she must be lying. Beyond the statement that she was just coked out of her mind, that is... which most fans know that, by all accounts, she was clean by the time she went in to record 'Tango.'

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I need not paint you in any way, Johnny. Don't attribute to me more power than I have.

Perhaps you should stick to moderating.

Trust me, pal, you have no power in my life. At the end of the day, you're just some guy on a message board.
And if you want to deny that your post was condescending and dismissive, that's fine. I wouldn't expect an apology from you.
But I'm not the only one who noted your tone, so I trust that I wasn't over-reacting.

I stated my case, and I think I did so in an articulate and clear fashion, without ever getting emotional or responding to anyone in a patronizing way. So I think I'll just go right on posting as often as my little heart desires.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
That she may have romanticized her actions by using the phrases "snuck in" and "took her voice off," rather than giving a detailed technical explanation of the mixing process, was not in question.
You stated outright that it was all a big lie, and that Lindsey just went out and recorded the vocal by himself.

I never said "big lie." You don't seem to know the difference between "big lie" and "tall tale," but that's your problem.

Meanwhile, I haven't seen you offer any evidence or proof to contradict Stevie's story

You provided the evidence yourself. The fact you have alternate takes of the song proves that she did not "wipe" the vocals. That's all I've contented all along -- that it didn't happen.

Trust me, pal, you have no power in my life. At the end of the day, you're just some guy on a message board.

Awwhhh, what a huuuuuuge disappointment.

But I'm not the only one who noted your tone, so I trust that I wasn't over-reacting.

Here we go with the generalizations. You and your buddies are exchanging private messages again. That's fine. But just keep them private; I could give a **** less about your exchanges with them.