Which Members in Rock HOF?

[SteveMacD]

I could see Bob Brunning, Dave Walker, Bob Weston, Bekka Bramlett, and Dave Mason being excluded. Their overall impact on the band wasn't that great. Weston's was, but not necessarily as a musician, and I'm not sure that's a reason to be included.

Bob Welch was a gimme. Billy Burnette and Rick Vito were in actuality part of the second most successful incarnation of Fleetwood Mac, at least in terms of concert ticket sales and album sales, so they're gimmes, too.

[snoot]

Originally Posted by Madelow

Dear Snoot & All-- Thanks for all the great responses! Boy, do I feel stupid.

Don't feel stupid at all Madelow. The only one who should feel stupid is Mick Fleetwood for letting this happen. But you know the saying, you can't fool all the people all the time. Just look at how many hip responses you received from forum members who know the true score. Just like Aleuzzi and Matt have stated, there have been members going back for years at the Ledge who have been decrying this situation, their heads spinning in disbelief.

How ANYONE could view those middle era releases, and by extension the personnel behind them, as being second class Mac productions is beyond me. The Kirwan and Welch led incantations of the band produced some of the Mac's most consistent releases when viewed cover to cover! Naturally it goes without saying that the slight to Bob Welch is the most glaring of all, one thing I think we all agree on. Hypnotized, if nothing else, should be added to those "essential songs." Bump Tusk and get it in there!

Mick you damn fool, what WERE you thinking?

[snoot]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I could see Bob Brunning, Dave Walker, Bob Weston, Bekka Bramlett, and Dave Mason being excluded. Their overall impact on the band wasn't that great. Weston's was, but not necessarily as a musician, and I'm not sure that's a reason to be included.

Strictly in terms of overall impact, I would agree with you. But how much should that matter really? Of that group, I'd say Weston is the trickiest, since he clearly helped take Mystery To Me over the top, and in some ways helped distance it - at least in terms of reach and sophistication - from Penguin (where he was somewhat under-utilized) and Heroes (where he was missing). Other than Welch and Christy working like never before on MTM, I do believe it was Westy who added some very critical fills and accents that helped make that release shine distinctly brighter. Those three were getting in an interesting and tight groove by that point. Weston's only real weakness was in the songwriting department. Still, if he had been around during HAHTF, he may have added the missing element that would have kept Bob Welch in the game longer. [the Mac game]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Billy Burnette and Rick Vito were in actuality part of the second most successful incarnation of Fleetwood Mac, at least in terms of concert ticket sales and album sales, so they're gimmes, too.

But that's a largely circumstantial yardstick as I see it. Their legacy will for the most part be judged on the quality and freshness of the respective project releases, and there they take a back seat to the Kirwan and Welch led affairs imo. In fact, pretty clearly. I'd go so far as to say the BTM album and ticket sales deride largely on the B&N constituted (aka Rumours) "shadow" that many long time fans were tuning in for during that time, to see how and where things stood and sounded now that one of the principals went MIA. That all-encompassing aura superseded just about everything back then. By the Time release, pretty much any novelty and surprise factor had been erased, and that production didn't even chart. One only has to look at the kind of sales FM got when Lindsey and Stevie were a tandem in the fold again in '97. They went right back to #1.

OTOH, beyond the "curiosity" factor, many fans of the day WERE turned off knowing B&N tag team had fractured, so the Vito and Burnette infused units certainly had an uphill battle on their hands right from the get-go. Thus there are different ways one could view their impact and standing, and at least that much makes for a fair debate. But it doesn't change the fact that eight were unwarrantly dissed.

[chiliD]

I, yet again, use the Grateful Dead as the measure. How much impact on the Grateful Dead's music was Donna Jean Godchaux? And, she's IN. Bob Welch's impact on Fleetwood Mac was 1,000 fold to that, he's NOT.

If those "balls" that Mick can't seem to play without were actually attached to his body instead of his belt-loop, he would've INSISTED that, at least, Welch be included. I would've preferred Jerry Garcia's approach, "All or Nothing".

[Wouter Vuijk]

Originally Posted by chiliD

"All or Nothing".

That's from the Small Faces.
Are they in? For sure Steve Marriott should be.

[DavidMn]

You know the thing is, Yes Bob should be in there. However, those of us that appreciate his contribution to the history of Fleetwood Mac, he's in there in our minds anyway, in spirit if not in name. We know how vital he was in an uncertain time in the bands history, and that's what's important really.

[snoot]

Originally Posted by chiliD

If those "balls" that Mick can't seem to play without were actually attached to his body instead of his belt-loop, he would've INSISTED that, at least, Welch be included. I would've preferred Jerry Garcia's approach, "All or Nothing".

Classic LOL.

Originally Posted by DavidMn

However, those of us that appreciate his contribution to the history of Fleetwood Mac, he's in there in our minds anyway, in spirit if not in name. We know how vital he was in an uncertain time in the bands history, and that's what's important really.

You got that right. BW went into the Hall the day he hung up the guns with FM. You'll never fool those in the know.

[slipkid]

Originally Posted by Wouter Vuijk

That's from the Small Faces.
Are they in? For sure Steve Marriott should be.

Not only are the Small Faces not in the RnR HoF, neither are The Faces. I know we're talking about Bob Welch's snub, but this is ridiculous! For all these years I thought at least the Faces were in, but it was only Rod Stewart (I just looked it up). Screw 'em! Ronnie Lane and Steve Marriot deserve their place in the hall.

[Ms Moose]

Originally Posted by slipkid

Not only are the Small Faces not in the RnR HoF, neither are The Faces. I know we're talking about Bob Welch's snub, but this is ridiculous! For all these years I thought at least the Faces were in, but it was only Rod Stewart (I just looked it up). Screw 'em! Ronnie Lane and Steve Marriot deserve their place in the hall.

I am shocked to learn that The Small Faces are not in the Rn R HoF. They were a great band!

Ms Moose

[slipkid]

Originally Posted by Ms Moose

I am shocked to learn that The Small Faces are not in the Rn R HoF. They were a great band!

Ms Moose

I know in the UK and Europe, the Small Faces had recognition. In America, the Faces made a larger impact, on the level of Yes, or Deep Purple (MKII). All three bands (including Jethro Tull) are seen as a joke to the RnR idiot voters. The Small Faces may make it years from now just like the Dave Clark Five. Apologies to Steve Marriot, but I always thought the Ron Wood, Ronnie Lane, Ian MacClagan, Kenny Jones, and Rod Stewart version of this band was gold!

[Wouter Vuijk]

Originally Posted by slipkid

I always thought the Ron Wood, Ronnie Lane, Ian MacClagan, Kenny Jones, and Rod Stewart version of this band was gold!

True, but Steve Marriott was platinum

[Wouter Vuijk]

Originally Posted by slipkid

In America, the Faces made a larger impact, on the level of Yes, or Deep Purple (MKII).

As far as I know, MKII is te second album by Steamhammer, not the strongest however. First (Reflection) and third (Mountains) were much better. A band with a fantastic singer (Kieran White) and two great guitar players (Martin Pugh and MartinQuittenton).

[jbrownsjr]

This saddens me to no end... I will never be able to justify in my head the politics and bullsh*t that the RR hall has put out....

The problem is... they only look at $$ that's all they care about... gee there's a big surprise...

Rush isn't even in the hall of fame... they still contribute to rock and roll... albums and touring internationally...

it's all a bunch of bull**** to me... and I have no respect for that building nor the panel that votes... none... period... end of story...

[slipkid]

Originally Posted by Wouter Vuijk

As far as I know, MKII is te second album by Steamhammer, not the strongest however. First (Reflection) and third (Mountains) were much better. A band with a fantastic singer (Kieran White) and two great guitar players (Martin Pugh and MartinQuittenton).

Wouter, I'm sorry for the miscommunication. When I typed MKII I meant the second and most famous version of Deep Purple (1969-1973). That was Ian Gillan, Ritchie Blackmore, Jon Lord, Roger Glover, and Ian Paice. In english it's known as "Mark II".

[Ms Moose]

Originally Posted by slipkid

I know in the UK and Europe, the Small Faces had recognition. In America, the Faces made a larger impact, on the level of Yes, or Deep Purple (MKII). All three bands (including Jethro Tull) are seen as a joke to the RnR idiot voters. The Small Faces may make it years from now just like the Dave Clark Five. Apologies to Steve Marriot, but I always thought the Ron Wood, Ronnie Lane, Ian MacClagan, Kenny Jones, and Rod Stewart version of this band was gold!

The Faces were great too, and Rod Stewart et. al. took the music somewhere else. I have a soft spot for british music in the sixties though. Steve Marriot was The British Soul Singer par excellence much the same way that the british blues players made their own version of the blues. But Small Faces are often looked upon as "pop" which is far from the truth.
(I am sorry I know this is The Pre-Rumours section)

Ms Moose