Stevie and Lindsey circa Tango In The Night

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Nico

Aww, that's sweet. I'm sure Lindsey could probably get on someone like John's nerves fairly quickly, but I'm also sure they get along at times as well. They seem to have bonded during "Destiny Rules" in some parts...of course, if their form of bonding is Lindsey sitting and bitching about stuff and John smoking cigarettes and laughing hysterically at everything LB says...then they're good.

Yeah. John is stubborn. Also, he's not that laid back when he drinks. I'm sure they've been worthy adversaries.

In Destiny Rules when Lindsey was telling John how much the remixing would cost, I do think he was deliberately trying to get a rise out of John. So, John said it was too much money and Lindsey said, "then we won't mix your bass parts." But I think the only reason he told John that it was going to cost $9000 was to see what the response would be.

It's funny John and Lindsey actually looked cozy enough during the Mirage shows. They seemed to interact a lot. But after that, they seem to choose their moments to acknowledge each other and then ignore the other for the rest of the show.

For the SYW tour, Lindsey had that place where he liked to grab John around the neck and John let him do it and sometimes he hugged Lindsey. Lindsey also grabbed John around the neck for The Dance tour. Also, when Lindsey came over to Christine for Stand Back, John would move to the other side of the stage.

For this tour, John has this thing of looking at Lindsey after Oh Well and smiling, giving him a thumbs up. Other than that, they don't make eye contact.


Michele

[Nico]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Other than that, they don't make eye contact.


Michele

Shoot, some times those relationships are the best kind. I can almost guarantee that Lindsey Buckingham has screamed at , shouted at, stomped feet at, thrown *insert large item* at, and whatever else he does when he's throwing a Lindsey Temper Tantrum waaaaaaaayyyyy more times with any of those other people than John. They may have a somewhat tepid relationship in our eyes, but I'm sure when one is coming off of a rage fest, or the other an alcoholic binge, sometimes it's a lot calmer to just have someone who you don't have to make eye contact with too much.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Nico

Shoot, some times those relationships are the best kind. I can almost guarantee that Lindsey Buckingham has screamed at , shouted at, stomped feet at, thrown *insert large item* at, and whatever else he does when he's throwing a Lindsey Temper Tantrum waaaaaaaayyyyy more times with any of those other people than John. They may have a somewhat tepid relationship in our eyes, but I'm sure when one is coming off of a rage fest, or the other an alcoholic binge, sometimes it's a lot calmer to just have someone who you don't have to make eye contact with too much.

Mick said that early on (White album I guess) they both decided "____ you" and maybe it's been relatively peaceful since then.

It's funny that even when he talks about working on the SYW album before Stevie arrived, he says that John and Mick said things to each other they never said before and that John was much happier without Christine there (which I doubt), but he never says that he and John shared anything new. I think when he is crying in Destiny Rules though, that he tells Stevie he wants to be with FM and doesn't take it lightly. He says it's very emotional being with her and "with John the way he is now." He says something like that, although I can't make it out completely. You know the part where he is facing her and getting choked up and she is twirling her hair?

Christine said one of the nicest things about The Dance reunion was looking over and seeing John and Lindsey with their heads together and arms around each other. She said she never thought she'd see that! Michele

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by David

That's only some fans' speculation.

I don't think they had anything to do with each other during that time. From the end of the Mirage tour, I don't even think they saw each other until she recorded with the band in 1986.

Just curious - I realize you know more than the average fan - but is your assessment of their relationship from '82-'86 fan speculation or is it based on something more? Because I would only expect someone who was involved in their lives on a more personal level to be able to give an accurate account of their relationship during that time. Even hanger-oners who frequent the backstage areas don't really know what they are seeing most of the time -way too many distractions.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Mick said that early on (White album I guess) they both decided "____ you" and maybe it's been relatively peaceful since then.

It's funny that even when he talks about working on the SYW album before Stevie arrived, he says that John and Mick said things to each other they never said before and that John was much happier without Christine there (which I doubt), but he never says that he and John shared anything new. I think when he is crying in Destiny Rules though, that he tells Stevie he wants to be with FM and doesn't take it lightly. He says it's very emotional being with her and "with John the way he is now." He says something like that, although I can't make it out completely. You know the part where he is facing her and getting choked up and she is twirling her hair?

I believe he said to her: "...I mean seeing you and me the way we are now, and John the way he is now, it's just, it's just...I can't even..." and he turns around seemingly wiping away tears and Stevie looks out the window, twirling her hair.

[Nico]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Mick said that early on (White album I guess) they both decided "____ you" and maybe it's been relatively peaceful since then.

It's funny that even when he talks about working on the SYW album before Stevie arrived, he says that John and Mick said things to each other they never said before and that John was much happier without Christine there (which I doubt), but he never says that he and John shared anything new. I think when he is crying in Destiny Rules though, that he tells Stevie he wants to be with FM and doesn't take it lightly. He says it's very emotional being with her and "with John the way he is now." He says something like that, although I can't make it out completely. You know the part where he is facing her and getting choked up and she is twirling her hair?

Christine said one of the nicest things about The Dance reunion was looking over and seeing John and Lindsey with their heads together and arms around each other. She said she never thought she'd see that! Michele

See, I enjoy reading stuff like this because it's so much more positive than someone's interviews at the moment. Anyway, Michele, I think J&L probably had that kind of relationship you have with someone you work with where everything just fits perfectly, the end result comes out amazing, but you never hang out after work. You say your pleasantries, do the job well, and go off to your separate lives. And often those can be some of the most successful working relationships because all that drama is just not there.

However, do you think there may have been some tension between them or do you think they were pretty much just had one of those non-personal relationships...I'm curious as to your take.

[David]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

Just curious - I realize you know more than the average fan -

I do? More of what? What on earth could that possibly mean? I've read more articles in the Blue Letter Archives than Joe Ledgie?

but is your assessment of their relationship from '82-'86 fan speculation or is it based on something more?

Speculation. Mine. I began my post with "I think . . ."

Because I would only expect someone who was involved in their lives on a more personal level to be able to give an accurate account of their relationship during that time. Even hanger-oners who frequent the backstage areas don't really know what they are seeing most of the time -way too many distractions.

Precisely so.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by David

I do? More of what? What on earth could that possibly mean? I've read more articles in the Blue Letter Archives than Joe Ledgie?

Hmmm..maybe? But, it just means you seem more knowledgeable in your posts and that you have been a fan longer.

Speculation. Mine. I began my post with "I think . . ."

Precisely so.

Thanks for clarifying.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Nico

However, do you think there may have been some tension between them or do you think they were pretty much just had one of those non-personal relationships...I'm curious as to your take.

Well, I think they would have had a non-personal relationship, except in the seventies they were in situations where they sometimes had to live directly on top of each other, it must have seemed. So, tensions flared up. They couldn't just do the job and go home, because it seems in those early days they spent a lot of time together, even outside of being on stage or in the studio. After the Tusk tour ended, it wasn't like that anymore. But I think there must have been about 5 years there, where they were all joined at the hip.

As for John and Lindsey, I just think they have little in common, but there are only 5 people in the world who know what it is like to be them and so, even if they would never have been friends outside of Fleetwood Mac, they have to consider each other family in a way, because of that bond of being there together when IT happened.

Lindsey said he has come to appreciate the tension of thinking that someone is going to step all over your guitar parts -- and then they don't! And I always thought that was a metaphor for any relationship. You come together and butt heads and feel this friction of thinking your space is going to be invaded, but then realize that what you have united (friction or not) is better than what you were accomplishing alone and you embrace the friction and the other person who made you stretch your boundaries.

Also, just from a boys v. girls perspective, I think Lindsey felt a camaraderie with John. When he talks about the Rumours break ups, he'll always stick in a word or two for John and point out that he didn't get his voice heard, because he doesn't write songs.

Michele

[Nico]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Also, just from a boys v. girls perspective, I think Lindsey felt a camaraderie with John. When he talks about the Rumours break ups, he'll always stick in a word or two for John and point out that he didn't get his voice heard, because he doesn't write songs.

Michele

I like that as well. I always think that was sweet of him to acknowledge John. Bass players are an absolute integral part of any band, and he deserves all his props.

I agree with what you're saying about their relationship and pretty much feel the same way as you. I think in a lot of bands, take the Beatles, there are going to be two guys who may not normally be friends personality-wise (George/Paul) but do love one another as brothers because they had that life together. It's something to talk about with each other as well, which could possibly form a tighter bond for them in the future. Possibly.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Nico

I agree with what you're saying about their relationship and pretty much feel the same way as you. I think in a lot of bands, take the Beatles, there are going to be two guys who may not normally be friends personality-wise (George/Paul) but do love one another as brothers because they had that life together. It's something to talk about with each other as well, which could possibly a form a tighter bond for them in the future. Possibly.

I'm not a Beatles fan, but I'll never forget seeing Paul on Larry King and he demonstrated how he held George's hand the last time he saw him. He reached out and stroked Ringo's wrist as an example and said he was rubbing George's hand like that. I was just crying. In the end, you aren't blood relatives and you wouldn't have chosen each other, but you're the only ones who know what it was like and there's a tie. The other person matters.

Michele

[Nico]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I'm not a Beatles fan, but I'll never forget seeing Paul on Larry King and he demonstrated how he held George's hand the last time he saw him. He reached out and stroked Ringo's wrist as an example and said he was rubbing George's hand like that. I was just crying. In the end, you aren't blood relatives and you wouldn't have chosen each other, but you're the only ones who know what it was like and there's a tie. The other person matters.

Michele

Thank you. I'm a massive Beatles fan in that they are my all-time band. And actually, Paul is so effective in the way he demonstrates his love for his band mates. When he wrote that song Here Today for John...then performed it once and he was all teary-eyed it was terribly sad. I always look at that example whenever Macca bugs me or does something stupid/annoying/egotistical because it shows such a great side to him. And, well, nothing more be said...no one knows what any band goes through as well as the individual members and that experience is theirs, and whatever relationship they form with one another through it is what it is.

[ILoveFM]

Originally Posted by Nico

Thank you. I'm a massive Beatles fan in that they are my all-time band. And actually, Paul is so effective in the way he demonstrates his love for his band mates. When he wrote that song Here Today for John...then performed it once and he was all teary-eyed it was terribly sad. I always look at that example whenever Macca bugs me or does something stupid/annoying/egotistical because it shows such a great side to him. And, well, nothing more be said...no one knows what any band goes through as well as the individual members and that experience is theirs, and whatever relationship they form with one another through it is what it is.

I love The Beatles too! When Paul came to Atlanta in August, me and my best friend went. We ended up at the front of the stage. We were so close to him. He responded to my non stop yelling of "I love you Paul", he finally said "well thanks, that was very nice of you"... Anyway he talked a lot about John and George, holding up his bass and the crowd would cheer, he did it for both of them at separate times. He performed 'Here today' and one of George's songs as well. It was quite moving.