Sue Me! I like Lindsey Better!

[EnchantedStorms]

We, as "Chifffon Heads" as some people like to call us, aren't separating anybody into groups. We have been forced to band together, though, in order to stick up for what we believe. I don't think anybody has questioned Lindsey's talent. I adore Lindsey. He is definitely talented, and although I used to not like his solo stuff so much, I am definitely coming around. Especially w/the latest GOS demos. See, I think that's where the problem is. All of these debates are a matter of OPINION. Someone's dislike of Stevie, or Lindsey is OPINION. Not fact. Saying that Lindsey has talent, is OPINION. Saying Stevie has talent is OPINION. But while the "chiffon heads" usually readily admit this, the Lindseyheads don't. They swear it as fact that the man has talent, and that Stevie doesn't. That Stevie would be nothing without Lindsey, yada yada yada. The truth is, NO ONE knows that. That is an OPINION. Who knows, maybe she would have went FARTHER without him, if he hadn't sat on his rear playing guitar all day and night while she supported him. Maybe she, if she had spent that time concentrating on HER career, would have ten number one albums by now...or twenty...or thirty. lol. Who knows??? It's all OPINION. And guesswork.

Ahh...I don't know why I am bothering. I usually don't. LOL

~~Angela~~

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by EnchantedStorms
Someone's dislike of Stevie, or Lindsey is OPINION. Not fact. Saying that Lindsey has talent, is OPINION. Saying Stevie has talent is OPINION. But while the "chiffon heads" usually readily admit this, the Lindseyheads don't.

Angela, you were on the right track until you tooka very wrong turn there. Clearly likes and dislikes are a matter of opinion. However, being able to ascertain if someone is talented is not necessarily about opinion. Very few people would say Lindsey does not have talent when he plays the guitar, arranges and produces. And if they do, most of us would agree that they would be wrong.

I also happen to like his songwriting and I think he has written some masterful lyrics, despite some stinkers. We can base our arguments about lyrics on our own opinions of what we like or dislike. Therein the issue. Because writing and (barely) singing is all Stevie does, the unending debate about her talent versus Lindsey's will be perpetuated forever. While some of Lindsey's talents are undeniable, much of what makes Stevie great to some is entirely up to debate based on subjectivity. This is why the "subjective" term is often bandied about by Stevie defenders. That's all they have.

[EnchantedStorms]

Okay...see, you missed my point. That's my fault, lol...after reading over what I posted. I worded a few things wrong. What I meant was that yes, it is a matter of "opinion", if you like Lindsey's or Stevie's work. And yeah, it is fact that he is talented. BUT...so is Stevie. And that is FACT, also. The woman has many solo albums out, to her credit. If she didn't have talent, we never would have seen or heard Wild Heart, RAL, OSOTM, SA, TISL, etc. Now, whether or not you LIKE it is your opinion. But to say that she is not talented, or that Lindsey is a hundred times more talented than she is, is wishful thinking, and "your" point of view. See, in my opinion, I think her songwriting and her singing outweigh Lindsey's guitar playing any ol' day. That's my opinion. And my point. Their level of talent IS subjective.

~~Angela~~

[Barbara]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I'm sure Barbara won't mind me posting this....

speaking as one of the Ledge moderators, all Fleetwood Mac fans are welcome to post on each and every one of the forums available here.

It has been very apparent over the years, that some of the band members have extremely loyal... and vocal ()... fans.
Which is why there are so many forums available here, as opposed to just one or two.

It seems to me that the only time arguments occur is when a fan of one member posts on the forum dedicated to another, seemingly to chastize those particular fans.

And i'm not referring to just Lindsey fans doing this on the Stevie forum, or Stevie fans doing it on the Lindsey forum, or even Rick Vito fans doing it on the Peter Green forum.
It's disrespectful no matter what the scenario is.

ALL opinions are welcome. They always have been.
It's all a matter of how you present it.


Johnny Stew

Thank you for posting this - I've been away for a couple of days!

I'd like to remind everyone that this is a private message board - not a public one - and to add a request that everyone who hasn't read the F.A.Q. Rules and Guidelines for posting, please do so before you post again. In his own inimitable way, CarneVaca made some good points about strikes for unacceptable behavior in posting - particularly the one about calling the moderators "fascists".

It is absolutely unnecessary to be rude and insulting in order to state your opinion. These arguments about Stevie vs. Lindsey have been going on for years on The Ledge and to my knowledge nobody's mind has ever changed, and probably never will.

As Johnny Stew said - it's not WHAT you say, it's HOW you say it.

Thanks,
Barbara

[Jo and Jensen]

Where would S&L be if they didn't join FM?

If they couldn't make it as Buckingham Nicks, I would guess that Stevie would be a teacher. She would still be writing marvelous songs, but no one would hear them. Lindsey would probably be working at his dad's old coffee plant. He would still be fiddling with his guitar, but neither of them would be anywhere without the other. It was THEIR talent that got Mick interested, and it was THEIR talent that brought FM more into the limelight.

Hmm, just my opinion.

Love,
Jo and Jensen

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Barbara
In his own inimitable way, CarneVaca made some good points about strikes for unacceptable behavior in posting - particularly the one about calling the moderators "fascists".

That almost sounded like a compliment. I'll take it.

Hey, what happened to our young friend, anyway. Did he get bounced?

[Barbara]

Originally posted by CarneVaca


That almost sounded like a compliment. I'll take it.

Hey, what happened to our young friend, anyway. Did he get bounced?

Name calling always gets our attention!

No, he didn't get bounced - hopefully he's busy reading the F.A.Q.

Barbara

[Barbara]

The Stevie vs. Lindsey arguments, who's the "best", who's the most talented, etc. always bothered me because they are such totally different artists. Even their career goals were different. They've always been competitors - but I think that was a personal thing in their particular situation. The old "apples and oranges" cliché comes to mind.

I wonder if they had never been in a band together, would anybody have ever tried to compare these two people? Why would they? And, if they had "gone their own way" from the beginning, which music would I have been attracted to?

My answer is Lindsey. He's the reason I'm here writing this today. I was hooked the minute I saw/heard him on The Dance. AND, I see no reason to be defensive or apologetic. Stevie without Lindsey is simply not my cup of tea and there shouldn't be anything wrong with that being my opinion.

Stevie and Lindsey are two COMPLETELY different kind of musicians with two COMPLETELY different styles and they produce COMPLETELY different music as solo artists. Because Lindsey could arrange Stevie's songs for Fleetwood Mac and occasionally when they were guests on other albums is testament to his talent as an arranger, he's done it for other artists too. He has claimed his major contribution to the band was his ability to make records.

The reason these arguments are so endless and frustrating is that these two people can't be compared.

I looked up "talent" when the thread started on the Rumours Forum (IMO, a subject that was a blatant argument provoker). My Thesaurus says A person who possesses unusual innate ability in some field or activity

I won't rhapsodize on Lindsey's unusual innate abilities (evident at a very young age) - self-taught player of guitar and other instruments, singer, arranger, producer, songwriter, engineer, . . .swimmer! I think he has an amazing list of talents considering he doesn't read music - and . . .what about the hidden ones?

It's good if you can be a fan of both. And it's even better if you can understand and respect the opinions of those who aren't!

Barbara

[witchywoman]

Hummm.
In my origional post, I attributed WWO's outburst to have
stemmed from his being told he should be posting on another
forum. I also felt that he would probably somewhat mellow
after getting it off his chest... I see that I was wrong in this acessment.
I believe very strongly in Lindsey's abilities as an artist, I do not however feel that any of Stevie's fans should be called names
or made to feel demeaned in any way. As a Lindsey fan I
don't think that Lindsey would find that amusing either.
I realize we all feel strongly for our favorite FM members
and we often have differences of opinions where they are
concerned; but an open attack on someone just for the
sake of voicing your opinion, is in my opinion, very poor
judgement.
I would welcome another Lindsey fan to this forum WWO
we are a close knit group here, but we also try to have respect
for those of other opinions.
I think there is more than enough room here for Lindsey and
Stevie fans... Yes we will still disagree, and that's healthy,
but being opionated does not give someone the right to
be cruel.
Just my opinion.

witchywoman

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Barbara
My answer is Lindsey. He's the reason I'm here writing this today. I was hooked the minute I saw/heard him on The Dance. AND, I see no reason to be defensive or apologetic. Stevie without Lindsey is simply not my cup of tea and there shouldn't be anything wrong with that being my opinion.

Barbara, you make it very hard for me to disagree with you... And that's not something I'm used to. I christen you my new favorite moderator. Though, I kinda like Les too.

But at the risk of straying too far from controversy, I have to say something after reading this from Witchywoman: "As a Lindsey fan I don't think that Lindsey would find that amusing either."

How can you presume to know what he would think? I would guess he has called Stevie a lot more and nastier names than the whole lot of us could ever conjure up.

[Barbara]

Originally posted by CarneVaca


Barbara, you make it very hard for me to disagree with you... And that's not something I'm used to. I christen you my new favorite moderator. Though, I kinda like Les too.

Thank you! Les is one of my favorite moderators, too (and a "Lindsey guru" to boot).

Barbara

[wondergirl9847]

Well...where the heck do I begin...I agree with witchy in that we should stop with the name-calling, how old are we, anyways? I don't think that the thread of who's most talented was INTENDED to provoke viciousness at all, just like my whole Interesting Numbers thread was not. I think people around here are EXTREMELY opinionated in certain areas and want somewhere to discuss those opinions, but sometimes, we get heated and resort to sillyness.

Stevie fans are just as welcome on the Lindsey Ledge as Lindsey fans are...and vice versa. It's really sad that we have to rack up our post numbers responding to nonsense. But, I'm sure that someone around here will go, "Then, don't respond." Well, I have OPINIONS too, and I am voicing them.

[WhiteWingedOne]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Hey, what happened to our young friend, anyway. Did he get bounced?

Still here. We normal people have to stick together. hey now! That "shrug guy" looks like Larry King. I would like to see Fleetwood mac as a group on Larry King. Even though I hate Larry King. I bet Lindsey could eat him for lunch. If I said I bet Stevie could chew up his ass, is that ok? I mean I don't want to offend any Larry King people or Stevie people or anything.

[CarneVaca]

Nah... Larry King is a lightweight. They should be on Donahue. I'm so glad he's back.

[Barbara]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Nah... Larry King is a lightweight. They should be on Donahue. I'm so glad he's back.

Donahue's mannerisms drive me nuts but I usually agree with his point of view.

Barbara