Kristen Buckingham joins Elle Decor “A-Listers”

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Nico

I don't know what you're saying here about Linda, Michele. Are you saying Kristen isn't in the same league in terms of the hate thrown at Linda McCartney, or she's nowhere near her in some other way?

I was talking about the comments regarding McCartney's looks.

As far as Carolyn Bessette goes, I think her features were more conventional and appealing than Jackie's but that she and Jackie certainly shared a sense of style and taste. Caroline doesn't have that herself, but with the poetry, pictures and audio tapes she's released, she's done great things since her mother died to share more of Jackie with the public and I really think I have such a greater idea of Jackie's whole personality in all of its facets now than I did while she lived. Too bad I'll never know how Carolyn's story would have played out.

Michele

[CADreaming]

^I think he mentioned the WB shakeup during that made a casualty of GOS. I don't think we really know nor do I believe it is his nature to take it in stride, but there are pros & cons to having the independent releases. I like the speed of availability for sure. I think I miss some of the production values though, or final mixing or wherever it is that they cut corners.

[elle]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

^I think he mentioned the WB shakeup during that made a casualty of GOS. I don't think we really know nor do I believe it is his nature to take it in stride,

we don't know, and same as you, i would have never expected him to. but he seemed to have remained friends and talks nicely about some of the main figures at WB at the time.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by elle

we don't know, and same as you, i would have never expected him to. but he seemed to have remained friends and talks nicely about some of the main figures at WB at the time.

He seems to feel that the guy who betrayed him didn't really have a choice and that he wanted to continue supporting the album but just couldn't. So, Lindsey seems to have felt let down, but also understood the climate at WB left no other choice. So, yes I think he took it in stride because he realized that the person you have the most contact with isn't the ultimate decision maker. It would be like attacking the cashier because you didn't like how the store was stocked.

Michele

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by michelej1

It would be like attacking the cashier because you didn't like how the store was stocked.

We should be glad then that Lindsey is not a hip hop artist. He might have grabbed a gun and killed the guy.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by michelej1

He seems to feel that the guy who betrayed him didn't really have a choice and that he wanted to continue supporting the album but just couldn't. So, Lindsey seems to have felt let down, but also understood the climate at WB left no other choice. So, yes I think he took it in stride because he realized that the person you have the most contact with isn't the ultimate decision maker. It would be like attacking the cashier because you didn't like how the store was stocked.

Michele

I don't think Tom was the guy he would have been upset with. I can't remember the other name.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

I don't think Tom was the guy he would have been upset with. I can't remember the other name.

The people he would have been upset with weren't even there when he received initial support for GOS. From what he's said they came in later and he didn't have any relationship with them. Plus, he had no power anyway. He had no leverage. He might have thought he would get some after The Dance, but that never happened.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

I don't think Tom was the guy he would have been upset with. I can't remember the other name.

Rob Cavallo?

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

Rob Cavallo?

I think it was mostly Tom. Before he came in they didn't want Lindsey's solo album anyway. Lindsey said he felt it was a "lame duck" situation and he thought he'd just wait until someone else was in charge. Meanwhile, he worked with FM. Tom Whalley came in as head and he said he liked the album and I think that made Lindsey very hopeful. But did Tom really like it or was he just making nice with Lindsey because he wanted more FM? Hard to say.

When Lindsey actually had an album, Whalley was indifferent to it and said that WB was not going to promote it. So, at that point, I think is when Lindsey felt he'd been stabbed in the back, because Tom did sort of a flip flop. But I think he also felt that WB was in such a state of flux (and the record business as a whole was) that he didn't hold Whalley personally responsible, even though he seems to be the one that Lindsey was having all the conversations with. I think he thought that Whalley was just trying to hang on to his job -- which he lost soon enough anyway.

At one point, it was like Lindsey was almost blaming himself, saying that maybe WB wasn't promoting his album because he'd called it "boutique," as if describing it in a different way to them would have made them roll out the PR department full blast. It wouldn't have.

Michele

[elle]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I think it was mostly Tom. Before he came in they didn't want Lindsey's solo album anyway. Lindsey said he felt it was a "lame duck" situation and he thought he'd just wait until someone else was in charge. Meanwhile, he worked with FM. Tom Whalley came in as head and he said he liked the album and I think that made Lindsey very hopeful. But did Tom really like it or was he just making nice with Lindsey because he wanted more FM? Hard to say.

When Lindsey actually had an album, Whalley was indifferent to it and said that WB was not going to promote it. So, at that point, I think is when Lindsey felt he'd been stabbed in the back, because Tom did sort of a flip flop. But I think he also felt that WB was in such a state of flux (and the record business as a whole was) that he didn't hold Whalley personally responsible, even though he seems to be the one that Lindsey was having all the conversations with. I think he thought that Whalley was just trying to hang on to his job -- which he lost soon enough anyway.

At one point, it was like Lindsey was almost blaming himself, saying that maybe WB wasn't promoting his album because he'd called it "boutique," as if describing it in a different way to them would have made them roll out the PR department full blast. It wouldn't have.

Michele

interesting. from some things Cavallo said in one of the FM docs (BTM maybe, although not sure which one?), it sounded he was partially working with Lindsey on GOS some time around 1995-1996 (he did co-produce some of those songs with him)... he claimed he said to LB that he has been inactive for a number of years and that if he puts out another solo album after all this time it would make a splash... and that even bigger splash would be a FM reunion (i.e. the Dance), and so LB agreed to wait for FM reunion first... or something like that. seems that Cavallo was trying to transmit some message he received from higher ups to LB at the time. once the dance happened, it would have been a perfect time imo to put out GOS (like in 1998/99), but my speculation is that at the time someone held it back - again... till LB tried to give the updated version to WB again in 2001. i think in 2001 he may have worked with Whalley and that's the period you are referring to?

from various interviews, Lindsey seems to consider both Whalley and Cavallo friends and doesn't really blame either one for what happened. when he was talking about One Take, he described a record company executive that cannot go against the board and general business / stock market / whatever mentality and has limited power if he wants to survive in his position. Cavallo just became what? WB CEO or something equivalent? after Whalley was apparently pushed out. Lindsey also mentions his friend Cavallo who just became a head of WB and cannot do what should be right for the art, just what's right for the business, in one of the SWS era interviews, and says that he completely understands that. he makes it sound like he doesn't condone it and wouldn't do it himself, but completely understands it.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I think it was mostly Tom. Before he came in they didn't want Lindsey's solo album anyway. Lindsey said he felt it was a "lame duck" situation and he thought he'd just wait until someone else was in charge. Meanwhile, he worked with FM. Tom Whalley came in as head and he said he liked the album and I think that made Lindsey very hopeful. But did Tom really like it or was he just making nice with Lindsey because he wanted more FM? Hard to say.

When Lindsey actually had an album, Whalley was indifferent to it and said that WB was not going to promote it. So, at that point, I think is when Lindsey felt he'd been stabbed in the back, because Tom did sort of a flip flop. But I think he also felt that WB was in such a state of flux (and the record business as a whole was) that he didn't hold Whalley personally responsible, even though he seems to be the one that Lindsey was having all the conversations with. I think he thought that Whalley was just trying to hang on to his job -- which he lost soon enough anyway.

At one point, it was like Lindsey was almost blaming himself, saying that maybe WB wasn't promoting his album because he'd called it "boutique," as if describing it in a different way to them would have made them roll out the PR department full blast. It wouldn't have.

Michele

Yeah - I'm thinking about comments LukeA made about this way back in one of our discussions - maybe even in regards to Kristen. I don't have time to try and research right now. Ugh. But seems like there was more animosity about it from LB at the time. Which I don't blame him-- I think taking it in stride was a little after the fact though.

[elle]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

Yeah - I'm thinking about comments LukeA made about this way back in one of our discussions - maybe even in regards to Kristen. I don't have time to try and research right now. Ugh. But seems like there was more animosity about it from LB at the time. Which I don't blame him-- I think taking it in stride was a little after the fact though.

yeah, i'd be probably still be pissed if i was him, although i guess at same point you just accept it as destiny. plus i don't know the real and whole story. but, i'm pissed now when i just think about not having GOS1 released and how all those songs were scattered around various albums. i'm pissed when i read currently ongoing SYW thread in Rumours forum and many people who are FM or SN fans first clearly do not appreciate those songs. i know it's stupid but when someone says Murrow or Red Rover are "weak" songs or throwaway songs makes me fume and i have to hold myself back from not posting in that thread.

guess it's kinda like you with BN reissue, only worse b/c there was NEVER an official album. yeah i have the MP3s, and it's amazing, but i would have still liked to have that out as an official release. LB solo release, as it was supposed to be.

i guess all the yoga / meditation / shrinkage may have played the role in LB's current attitude towards what happened.

and, i have to say, after i first heard his 6 SWS songs and once that album came out, i stopped feeling that bad about the whole GOS1 debacle, because artistically i felt LB has finally moved passed it. i did not feel that way when i listened to UTS and GOS (official). so maybe that also plays into LB's current acceptance - because eventually he may came out a better artist because of what happened in those 5-10 years.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by elle

interesting. from some things Cavallo said in one of the FM docs (BTM maybe, although not sure which one?), it sounded he was partially working with Lindsey on GOS some time around 1995-1996 (he did co-produce some of those songs with him)... he claimed he said to LB that he has been inactive for a number of years and that if he puts out another solo album after all this time it would make a splash... and that even bigger splash would be a FM reunion (i.e. the Dance), and so LB agreed to wait for FM reunion first... or something like that. seems that Cavallo was trying to transmit some message he received from higher ups to LB at the time. once the dance happened, it would have been a perfect time imo to put out GOS (like in 1998/99), but my speculation is that at the time someone held it back - again... till LB tried to give the updated version to WB again in 2001. i think in 2001 he may have worked with Whalley and that's the period you are referring to?

No, I'm talking about before Whalley even came. That's when Lindsey said that he was first told that they didn't want his album. So, he figured that the people in charge would be fired soon anyway and he would just wait out the lame duck transition and wait to see who came in next. Then Tom is the one who came in next and Lindsey got his hopes in again. But they had already been dashed by WB before Tom.

Michele

[elle]

Originally Posted by michelej1

No, I'm talking about before Whalley even came. That's when Lindsey said that he was first told that they didn't want his album. So, he figured that the people in charge would be fired soon anyway and he would just wait out the lame duck transition and wait to see who came in next. Then Tom is the one who came in next and Lindsey got his hopes in again. But they had already been dashed by WB before Tom.

Michele

so the period you are talking about - would that fit somewhere between 1996 and 2001? (sorry, for some reason i need to fit what's happening to years / timeframe in my mind )

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by elle

so the period you are talking about - would that fit somewhere between 1996 and 2001? (sorry, for some reason i need to fit what's happening to years / timeframe in my mind )

Yes, it would.

Michele