Red Rover, Exposed!

[CarneVaca]

Hearing Red Rover performed live last night preceded by Lindsey's speech finally gelled in my mind the meaning of the song. Lindsey said the song was written from the perspective of gods, not God, sitting up there and looking down on us. He said, "gods, like Zeus." The whole idea is that these Greek gods are looking down on this experiment we call the human race, kind of furrowing their brows and wondering just how it all went so wrong. The gods start to wonder if they should pull the plug.

He then said apologetically that it's a very dark thought.

In listening to his introductory speech, it finally dawned on me: "Red Rover, we've come to take you over." That's the "pulling the plug" part. "What of the quiet ones" is clearly a reference to the folks who think the way Lindsey does and have concluded this experiment has gone terribly wrong.

It really is very political, but he dances around the politics of it by writing it somewhat cryptically.

And I also understand the relationship to "Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind" now. As you might recall, Lindsey has also said that song was written form the Greek gods' perspective. In both songs, the gods are in their rightful paternal role, manipulating or wondering whether to manipulate their creation, these children called humans. You might recall from your Greek Mythology classes that the gods amused themselves by thinking up challenges and tasks for the humans. Occasionally a human, like Prometheus, would outsmart the gods, but never without retribution.

"Red Rover," I believe, is about hubris. And as such, the gods are figuring out just what to do about it.

"Red Rover" is a very clever, chilling song. As is "Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind."

[wondergirl9847]

Cool to hear someone discuss Red Rover besides me. LOL

I always thought it was about death, but I looked at it as Lindsey comforting his mother after the death of his dad. I wrote an interp a long time ago, need to go find it.

*I* apply it to my pain after the death of my grandfather.

I remember when Livia asked Lindsey on the phone when he did a radio interview before the SYW tour started. She asked him what RR was about and he told her the Greek god thing. I was floored because I had applied it to death anyways.

It's one of the most interesting, mindblowing songs EVER written, IMO. 9 days till I see him do it live and lose it.

[CarneVaca]

Christy, don't despair. It is about death. In it, the gods are contemplating just how to handle this hubris. And wiping out the human race is definitely a consideration.

I hope that makes you feel better.

[wondergirl9847]

Thanks, Carne.

I'm all about death, for some reason. I love dark stuff, songs, movies, books, etc. I wrote a lot about death in high school and college. LOL

[sodascouts]

Feel free to send any interps to me, lol!

I've heard the Greek Gods spiel before - there was similar intro to it at Soundstage. I can see that applying to about half of the song's lyrics, but the other half are still inexplicible to me, despite this "explanation." Who is the "you"? The first verse - "Why do you come aruond so very much"? Is this Zeus talking to the other gods? If it's humanity, this makes no sense. Come around where? To temples to worship Zeus?!!! Oh, even writing this stuff is making me shake my head. Is the "lips you were kissing" a mockery of the love humanity finds because it is all doomed? And if that's the case, here is much to hear in "Heaven on in Hell."

The second verse can work in the context more easily.... there's more to it then this simplistic Pantheon Politics explanation. The lyrics intrigued me so much that once upon a time when I wrote a letter to Mr. Lindsey Buckingham (and no, he didn't answer it lol) I asked him to give more info on the song sometime during an interview. Well, he didn't do that either. Guess he doesn't take orders from Nancy.

[wondergirl9847]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

Is the "lips you were kissing" a mockery of the love humanity finds because it is all doomed? And if that's the case, here is much to hear in "Heaven on in Hell."

I think it's the gods saying that to themselves in sure, a pseudo-mocking tone. Kind of like "Well, well, your loved ones, yeah, they are dead now."

Perhaps, that first verse are the gods talking amongst themselves about us?

"Why do you come around so very much?" - Why do we look down on these people, they are obviously wretched.

"You know it just brings you down, it's just something you can touch." - One god to another perhaps? You get depressed when you look at the world, but you don't want to kill them all because it's something to play with.

"You don't belong here, I guess you never did." - Talking about us, we dont' belong on earth, because we abuse it.

"Whisper murder in your ear, you just keep it so well hid." - The gods whispering to us that they may kill us. The second part is a mystery.

"Anyone at all could see what was missing." - Love, peace, humanity is missing.

"Could see you were dying through no one was crying." - The world is going to pot, but nobody cares.

"And the lips you were kissing, night after night, all were bathed in blue, all bathed in white" - Death.

"Red rover, red rover, red rover, we come to take you over." - Take us over to the other side.

"One of the quiet ones one of the few" - We are quiet for not speaking up, standing up for what's right in the world. This is confusing.

"Now fall down onto your knees show us all what you can do." - Prayer for mankind?

"We came around here to see if you were well" - The world, they are checking on us to see if we were being good.

"And there's nothing for you to fear in Heaven or in Hell" - You shouldn't fear Heaven because it's a good place, and you shouldn't fear Hell because if you do right, you won't go there.

Who the frick knows WHAT it means. LOL!!!!

[mylittledemon]

I didn't care for the song all that much when I heard it on Say You Will. But seeing it live changed my perspective. It does have a very dark vibe to it, and Lindsey was very intense when he sang it. I give it two demon thumbs up.

[Sugar]

I GUESS I can hear this in the song, but I always hear it as a "gotta get away from Stevie/FM" song. But who am I to say Linds is lyin'?

Still love the song though!

[BlueGrass]

I gotta chime in on this, even though I don't post here very much, I still read up everday.

Red Rover is my fav song of all time pretty much, it just strikes a certain chord within me, and I can never put my finger right on y.

At first, I associated this song with innocence, and childhood, because Red Rover is a childs game.

Then I thought it was just about some lonely person, who wanted to escape.

Recently, I have really been bought on the idea of Red Rover being almost a suicide song. "You DOn't belong here," "No one was crying" "We come to take you over."

And it is somewhat about dying/suicide and pulling the plug. I guess what Lindsey said makes sense, and there was a good explanation for it now.

I think because the song is so chilling, creepy and mysterious is why I like it so much.

[tynan88]

I always thought RR was about death, to me the second verse was a give away, and to me the first tells of a secret illness??? I dunno really but it's great to hear of something of Lyndsey i've never heard the God's story before.

Tynan

[CarneVaca]

OK, since I brought this up, I am going to give this one a whirl. I like Christy's interpretation because it's fairly close to mine. I believe some of the confusion stemming from Lindsey's use of the second person is because though he says "you," he's not always talking about the same "you."

"Why do you come around?" I see this as one of the gods asking himself, Why do I even bother coming here and looking at these people? Why do I have to keep reminding myself this has all gotten so out of hand?

"You know it just brings you down, it's just something you can touch." The god is still addressing himself here: I come here -- here presumably being some vantage point on Olympus whence he can look down -- even though it brings me down because this is tangible. It's real.

"You don't belong here, I guess you never did." Now, I believe the "you" becomes the human. The internal dialogue becomes a soliloquy directed at the humans. The god is saying, essentially, you wouldn't even be here if I hadn't put you here. Truth is you don't even belong here. And that has never been more obvious now that you're screwing everything up. Alternately, perhaps the god is still addressing himself saying "you don't belong here" in the sense that "you really had no business creating these humans in the first place." Perhaps it's both.

"Whisper murder in your ear, you just keep it so well hid." The god is saying, You know damn well you're murdering thugs, that everything you do is leading to death, but you're pretty good at hiding the actual truth of the matter from yourselves. This is a commentary, I believe, on the powerful people who run things.

"Anyone at all could see what was missing, could see you were dying through no one was crying." Mother earth is dying. The environment is shot to hell but people aren't paying enough attention.

"And the lips you were kissing, night after night, all were bathed in blue, all bathed in white" This is a commentary about humanity's near-constant flirtation with death. The blue and white lips seem to suggest kissing a cadaver. The cadaver may be humanity itself, mother earth or both.

Then at the chorus, the god is again addressing the humans, who after all are the children of the gods: "Red rover, red rover, red rover, we come to take you over." The gods are saying, Since you screwed things up royally, we're going to take you over. This I believe is the "pulling the plug" part.

"One of the quiet ones one of the few." Now the god seems to be appealing to the few among us (clearly myself included ) who realize things have gone terribly wrong: "Now fall down onto your knees show us all what you can do." He's using he kneeling reference, I believe, as an allusion to faith, that which gives you will power to do something. Do you have enough will power to turn this thing around?

"We came around here to see if you were well" Now this one god is acknowledging that "we," all of us gods up here, are checking up on humanity to see how it's holding up.

"Now there's nothing for you to fear in heaven or in hell" This is an interesting line, because it seems to fly in the face of what we are taught: Fear hell because you don't want to end up there. To me, it seems this deity is saying, "Guess what, there is no heaven, there is no hell. So you have nothing to fear there." Implicit in this seems to be the message: Fear not those things; they don't exist. We do, we exist, and guess what? We're going to take you over. We're going to wipe you out.

Anyway, that's more interpretation then I've ever wanted to do. But this particular song is song intriguing that I couldn't help myself.

[Sugar]

I can totally see that. But just for the sake of argument here's how I always heard it. of course, I'm not saying anyone's wrong (here on the oh-so-sensitive Ledge), but I'm just throwing this out since I'm the only one who sees it. And I agree with the death imagery, I'm just thinking it may be more emotional death rather than actual death.

Why do you come around so very much You know it just brings you down, it's just something you can touch

Clinging to a dead relationship OR His final days with Fleetwood Mac in the 80's. "Something you can touch" being something real and secure, even in a dysfunctional way.

You don't belong here, I guess you never did.

Gee, maybe this is why my relationship with Stevie/FM didn't work out. Maybe also commenting on how different his musical direction was from the rest of the band

Whisper murder in your ear, you just keep it so well hid.

Staying was going to kill him (emotionally, artistically), though he tried to fight it and stay for so long. The imagery is of it being kind of taunting and subtle. Can't you see him working at the mixing board, hating the direction he's going in, thinking "These guys are going to kill me," i.e whispering murder in his ear.

Anyone at all, could see what was missing, Could see you were dyin', though no one was cryin'

Everyone could see he wasn't happy, but no one did anything to alleviate his pain (probably all too busy with their own...)


And the lips you were kissing, night after night, All were bathed in blue, all bathed in white

The lips could be Stevie or FM, but this person/thing you are so intimately involved with night after night is DEAD. DEAD, DEAD, DEAD.

One of the quiet ones, one of the few, Now fall down onto your knees, Show us all what you can do OK--I admit to losing a bit of my momentum here, but here goes! Maybe he's "quiet" because he didn't get the spotlight like Stevie. Maybe he's "one of the few" because HE'S the one who broke away from the machine and all the craziness. But now he's left and he's really on his own now. And now he feels like he needs to get a little humble and prove himself.

We came around here, to see if you were well, And there's nothing for you to fear, in heaven or in hell.

More recently the old gang has gotten touch with him and I just see this as kinda "All 's forgiven".

Red Rover, Red Rover...we come to take you over

The fear of giving in and compromising himself. At one time more about getting away from the crazy drug filled days, but also a bit about giving things up artistically for the name Fleetwood Mac. He says it like a warning, like a low alarm going off. It's cool!

Ah well, far be it from me to know what's going on in Lindsey's head. It's cool, though, that we all dig this song so much! It certainly elicits a visceral response.

[face of glass]

Come on. It's just another song about sex, or in fact, the lack of it. That's what they all write about.

[strandinthewind]

Wow - that was really good Sugar - I can totally see it being about that!

[mylittledemon]

Well Lindsey's songs can be eccentric at best, and almost impossible to interpret. 95% of songs are about love anyways. I think this is one of those thats in the other 5%.