Lindsey Buckingham vs. Mark Knophler

[Mari]

hm, how about, it took two musicians to replace Lindsey?

[madformac]

ChiliD is correct of course, Billy Burnette was basically the male voice of Mac during that period and his playing was mainly rhythm(from what I have seen, anyway, since there has been pretty much a Fleetwood Mac blackout for the past 15 years in the UK!) and Vito took on the more serious guitar work. So two "men" rather than "guitarists" replaced Lindsey, sorry to "offend" anybody.

The point I was clumsily trying to get across was that to find a single guitarist with Lindsey's skills in terms of playing and, of course, to sing with such power at the same time would have been pretty difficult, impossible even, to find in such a short period of time. The job fell to two men.

And so then Mac happened to have two guitarists as well which can't be a bad thing in the bargain. But, even with two men playing the axe they were never going to get "that" sound that Lindsey pulls off because their styles are so different. Vito and Burnette are very talented men but not "technically" in the same league as Lindsey.


* Any Ledgie easily offended, don't read the next line!!!*


It's irrelavent to me because in my opinion Knopfler is a better guitarist than any of them..... Full stop.

[chiliD]

Vito and Burnette are very talented men but not "technically" in the same league as Lindsey.

I don't think you meant this LITERALLY did you?

You're not REALLY saying that you think due to Lindsey's unique playing technique that automatically makes him "technically SUPERIOR" to Rick Vito, or anyone else who uses a more traditional technique, for that matter, are you?



Again, the comparison is like comparing apples to...

...nah, I'm tired of that one...

...like comparing sushi rolls to burritos.

If his technique is the equivalent of two or more players at the same time, then how is having FIVE (count 'em: Liza, Janet, Steve, Neale, & Lindsey himself) guitarists on his own solo tour??

[madformac]

Not literally Mr.D no,

Did I say Superior? No I did not.

Technically you can only rate Lindsey against men using the same or similar styles which I guess is why this Buckingham vs Knopfler thread started in the first place.

If you read into the bit before the "technically" sentence, when I said their styles were different this is what I mean.

Take God himself (no offense to anybody with religous beliefs reading), Eric Clapton uses a much more traditional style than Lindsey and he is just as amazing, sometimes more so. You can say he is in the same league as Vito, just as you could say Lindsey is in the same league as Knopfler, Merle Travis, Chet Atkins and other fingerpickers, and before you say it Chili, I know their styles vary as do their roots and musical backgrounds, this is simply about placing guitarists within their leagues, It is upto you to decide who is top of that league.

As for Lindsey having five guitarists on tour with himself, that is pure indulgence!

Chili, no reply to my last statement???

[Carole Ann]

Lindsey is clearly NOT in the same league, "technically" or otherwise, as Rick Vito.

Truer words were never spoken.

[madformac]

I personally prefer Lindsey's playing to Vito's and yes, I personally think he is better, that is my own opinion and I am entitled to it.

However, I really have not heard a great deal of Vito's work and Lindsey has spent the last 10 years sat in his garage improving his playing abilities instead of getting out on the road and performing. Who really knows?

Give me ten years off work to practice and I might be as good as he is. Who really knows?

In fact, Lindsey has spent ten years recording and rerecording his guitar work and overdubbing everything he has worked on in that period. Is he really as good as he was live five years ago? Only time will tell....

By the way, Carole Ann, you don't state which guitarist you prefer.

Is it Vito???

[Carole Ann]

I personally prefer Lindsey's playing to Vito's and yes, I personally think he is better, that is my own opinion and I am entitled to it.

You're not YELLING at me, are you? I'm not even close to being belligerent. Apologies if you thought I was.

[madformac]

No Carole Ann, I am not yelling at you, I only asked which of them you prefer. Sorry if you read into the rest and thought I was provoking you. That lot is for the benefit of Mr.D

[Carole Ann]

No Carole Ann, I am not yelling at you

We certainly can't have any yelling going on -- ha!

And I prefer The Lovely and Talented Mr. Vito. But that's just me...

[chiliD]

Yeah, yeah...Buckingham sits alone in some "Rain Room" with the same damned ideas he's had since he was 17, trying to pawn off on us (if we ever get to hear them, that is) in different formats, only due to the upgrades in recording technology do we think they're something....oooooh....BRAND NEW! He's been shoving the same riff from "Stephanie" down our throats for almost 30 years!! (first with "Eyes Of The World", then with "Bang The Drum"...what next?). He plays a variation on a theme of a guitar solo on "Frozen Love", "I'm So Afraid", "Tango In The Night", and now "Murrow"...what song is going to have that same damned solo in it on the new Mac album?? 1/2 his songs on "Out Of The Cradle" were reworkings of songs he used for "Tango In The Night" ZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzzz...

...I just don't see HOW anyone can grow, left to their own devices...music is to be shared...with an audience, with other musicians...playing music was intrensically invented to be a COMMUNAL activity, not a solitary activity. I know from personal experience, the times I grow as a musician and a guitar player is from the experience of playing with other musicians...the biggest ruts I get into are when I'm just playing guitar by myself. All that time alone in his studio, I think, has been detrimental to Lindsey's growth...sure HE may think he's grown because he's found a new way to present his old & moldy ideas onto a public that either isn't musical enough to KNOW that he's doing that, or just blindly reverent to think every note out of his guitar is being touched by something divine...like the debate I had a while back with a Ledgie over his song from the GoS stuff called "Twist Of Fate"...I'm not sure if that person was musical or not, but they couldn't hear that it's a direct offspring (as opposed to exact clone) of the ideas Lindsey used in "Second Hand News" (and was adamant about not hearing it), which seemed OBVIOUS to me (and quite a few others, as well)

Vito, on the other hand, experiments with NEW ideas on a nightly basis being out on the ROAD 200+ dates a year with a variety of different artists, as well as his OWN shows. He has the fire of Stevie Ray Vaughan, the sensitivity of Peter Green, the blues background of John Lee Hooker, and the versatility of Eric Clapton.

[madformac]

Originally posted by Carole Ann


I prefer The Lovely and Talented Mr. Vito. But that's just me...

Lovely? This debate seems to be turning sexual in nature! Ha!

I would class Halle Berry as lovely ,talented as well.

Liddy Buck and Vito are talented. But then this is from a male point of view. Any other comment could be misenterpreted! Ha!

[Carole Ann]

...sure HE may think he's grown because he's found a new way to present his old & moldy ideas onto a public that either isn't musical enough to KNOW that he's doing that, or just blindly reverent to think every note out of his guitar is being touched by something divine..

It's interesting to get a take on all this from a musician's point of view (both chili and mad...) as opposed to a fan's.

----
"I would class Halle Berry as lovely, talented as well. "
----
Something we can agree on - YAY!

[madformac]

ChiliD!!!!

A bit on the cutting side but probably true, How many death threats are WE going to get???

The only way any artist grows musically is with interacting with other musicians, learning other styles, accepting different ideas and sometimes adapting to them. Only by gigging or sharing a studio with other like minded individuals can this be achieved. The Beatles anyone? To name just one instance.
Lindsey, musically may have gone the way some people have gone with mental illness, without wishing to upset anybody close to someone mentally ill, It is known that if a person is in an enviroment on their own for too long, certain mental and emotional traits occur. People become withdrawn and cannot interact with others in a "normal" way. Has this happened musically with Lindsey? His version of Here Comes The Sun has made me wonder.

Peter Green.

Does anyone think that he could be where he is, mentally, today if he spent the last five years in a studio? I don't.
Spending so much time on the road with Splinter Group has done wonders for him. It has healed him mentally to a point he would NEVER have got to if he was not on the road. His slide playing is at times amazing now, regardless of his mental state.

[chiliD]

At this point, I think the only thing that would get Lindsey out of his "cocoon" would be to join some sleazy classic rock cover band and play dive bars 5 nights a week for 15 years. Rattle his cage, make him relate to "the common man" for a while. Let HIM deal with all the cat calls for "Free Bird" & "Smoke On The Water" 100 times a night! HA! That'll show him!

[Carole Ann]

How many death threats are WE going to get???

No kidding, you guys. At this point, I think it's best to chime in with An Official Denial that I don't know either one of you! Never even heard of LB. Nope, not me. (And I think you two have probably sent our poor Skylark into some sort of swoon with your comments about LB! Don't worry Sky - NOBODY could be a better fan of Lindsey's than you. These guys don't stand a chance in a ring with you! )