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  #16  
Old 05-15-2018, 01:56 PM
Dr.Brown Dr.Brown is offline
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Originally Posted by Murrow View Post
I've expressed some of this in other threads but this seems more appropriate for the purpose.

Yes I do blame her for a lot.

2005 or so: I'm not doing another Mac album as the only female.

2014: Can we delay Mac activity even though Chris is back cos I've booked studio time.

One tour later

2016: I don't want to do a Mac album period.

My considered opinion is that Mick should have said "We're not waiting" to her in 2016 (better still 2014) the same way he claims he's done with Lindsey.

More than anything I blame Mick. He's just got too much of a soft spot for Stevie to put his foot down with her about anything these days. Did he seriously think having BOTH those two back in the band was going to work for any great length of time. All it produced was 20 years of jack s*** apart from Say You Will and that poxy excuse for an EP.
Mick's soft spot is that he knows which side his bread is buttered on, realizing that an FM with Stevie means much more money in his wallet than one without. This is why so many are disgusted - this once great band has been reduced to nothing more than a cash cow for him. Witness his charging fans $600 a pop plus fees for a brief meeting (ticket price not included!) as part of what I call his "Meet & Fleece" program.

There are also those who are very disappointed with Christine as I am but I'm certain that in an earlier era Christine would have been much more outspoken. The thing is she's now pushing 75 and age sadly does take its toll.
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FYI: The Rumours lineup = Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Christine McVie, Lindsey Buckingham & Stevie Nicks.

The lineup featuring Mike Campbell & Neil Finn is a Post-Rumours lineup of the band.


After 14 yrs visiting a site I once enjoyed which covered a band I once loved following, I now ‘Say Goodbye’ to both
No thanks to the faction within FM which destroyed its legacy & heavy-handed mod michelej1


This site operates at the whim of the admin&mods–a whim I'll no longer be associated with
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  #17  
Old 05-15-2018, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by gldstwmn View Post
When they started to turn on Christine I realized that we'd started to cross the Rubicon.
People have created an entire alternate reality in their own heads. Apparently, Mick and Stevie orchestrated this and it was a plot. A plot against Lindsey! And Christine is either a skank, or she's gotten too old and senile to object.

I love Lindsey and when I saw the first article about him being fired, I thought it was a joke. It was a huge shock and I understand why people are upset. I was upset, too. But I don't know these people. I don't know what their motives were.

I've said for a long time that you can read between the lines of Stevie's comments about not wanting to record with Fleetwood Mac, and what she's really saying is that she doesn't want to record with Lindsey. Him, specifically. There is evidently something about their dynamic in a recording studio that she just can't deal with and doesn't want to deal with.

Is that disappointing? Of course it is. But I don't know the woman, and (as far as I know) neither does anyone else here. I do know what it's like to have co-workers that you just can't have a functional professional relationship with, and what it's like to reach a point where you say "I just can't do it anymore." So I can't sit in judgment of her for that, as much as I'm disappointed that we won't get to hear new music from that lineup.

Stevie is probably a diva, and Lindsey is probably controlling, and that combined with their 45-year history together probably creates a lot of drama that is greatly intensified in a recording studio.

The facts are that nobody in the band has really said all that much about this situation, which leaves fans to spin their own elaborate stories, appropriately making heroes or villains of their favorite and non-favorite band members. Which is understandable, but I hope that people understand that their own bigotry shows, and their ranting says a lot more about them that it does about the members of FM. And it's often not pretty.

Last edited by markolas : 05-15-2018 at 04:15 PM.
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  #18  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murrow View Post
I've expressed some of this in other threads but this seems more appropriate for the purpose.

Yes I do blame her for a lot.

2005 or so: I'm not doing another Mac album as the only female.

2014: Can we delay Mac activity even though Chris is back cos I've booked studio time.

One tour later

2016: I don't want to do a Mac album period.

My considered opinion is that Mick should have said "We're not waiting" to her in 2016 (better still 2014) the same way he claims he's done with Lindsey.

More than anything I blame Mick. He's just got too much of a soft spot for Stevie to put his foot down with her about anything these days. Did he seriously think having BOTH those two back in the band was going to work for any great length of time. All it produced was 20 years of jack s*** apart from Say You Will and that poxy excuse for an EP.
To be genuinely fair here...she did drop 24k in 2014 but she still went out on the road with Mac. She didn't hold the band hostage so she could do a tour. She waited until time with the Mac was done. She probably wanted to go out on the road immediately for that album and did not. Because she knows she probably would have been thrown out of the band to some extent.

To add to that: She was done with Mac in 2013 and she was probably anticipating to finish her album and do a tour - then Christine came back in the fold and added another extended tour. She should have theoretically done her album 2014 - toured 2014 or 2015 and then back to mac in 2016 but that didn't happen that way. So I think it would have been unreasonable for Mick to say in 2016 and 2017 too bad let's go we have another tour. They know she flips to her solo work after mac work.

Last edited by krrrby : 05-15-2018 at 05:21 PM.
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  #19  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by markolas View Post
People have created an entire alternate reality in their own heads. Apparently, Mick and Stevie orchestrated this and it was a plot. A plot against Lindsey! And Christine is either a skank, or she's gotten too old and senile to object.

I love Lindsey and when I saw the first article about him being fired, I thought it was a joke. It was a huge shock and I understand why people are upset. I was upset, too. But I don't know these people. I don't know what their motives were.

I've said for a long time that you can read between the lines of Stevie's comments about not wanting to record with Fleetwood Mac, and what she's really saying is that she doesn't want to record with Lindsey. Him, specifically. There is evidently something about their dynamic in a recording studio that she just can't deal with and doesn't want to deal with.

Is that disappointing? Of course it is. But I don't know the woman, and (as far as I know) neither does anyone else here. I do know what it's like to have co-workers that you just can't have a functional professional relationship with, and what it's like to reach a point where you say "I just can't do it anymore." So I can't sit in judgment of her for that, as much as I'm disappointed that we won't get to hear new music from that lineup.

Stevie is probably a diva, and Lindsey is probably controlling, and that combined with their 45-year history together probably creates a lot of drama that is greatly intensified in a recording studio.

The facts are that nobody in the band has really said all that much about this situation, which leaves fans to spin their own elaborate stories, appropriately making heroes or villains of their favorite and non-favorite band members. Which is understandable, but I hope that people understand that their own bigotry shows, and their ranting says a lot more about them that it does about the members of FM. And it's often not pretty.
Markolas, it sounds like you have a pretty good handle on your perspective of what went down. I pretty much see it your way, too. It's been obvious to many people that Stevie won't record with Lindsey anymore. It's frustrating, but after 40 plus years, they've each earned the right to pick who they can or will work with. FM made a choice and they went with Stevie. It could just as easily have been Lindsey they went with.

I do think Mick sided with Stevie for economic reasons, but that's his right, too. "If we keep Lindsey, we'll get another FM album perhaps, but they won't take John or me on tour with them and the tour won't make as much money anyway because a FM without Stevie won't play big venues or command higher prices. If we keep Stevie, we'll get another FM album perhaps, and we'll get to tour and make more money because a FM with Stevie will play big venues and command higher prices." That's business, but some fans think Mick and John should be content to play on an album (that won't sell well, anyway) and not make money by touring in order to keep their legacy intact. Touring is how this band makes their income. If FM had kicked Stevie out, there would be no arena tour. Actually, there's be no tour at all for John and Mick. Look at what happened when they released Buck/Vie- Lindsey and Christine toured without Mick and John. So yes, it's unfortunate they kicked Lindsey out, but I can see from a financial pov why they did. They've got bills, too.
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  #20  
Old 05-15-2018, 07:39 PM
dreamsunwind dreamsunwind is offline
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Originally Posted by markolas View Post
I've said for a long time that you can read between the lines of Stevie's comments about not wanting to record with Fleetwood Mac, and what she's really saying is that she doesn't want to record with Lindsey. Him, specifically. There is evidently something about their dynamic in a recording studio that she just can't deal with and doesn't want to deal with.

.
I think it's basically that he produces. If he was just a guitar player/singer/writer I doubt she would be as bothered. But because he produces, he gets a big part in how her songs end up and so they clash. He's also very perfectionist in the studio which I assume she (and probably others) gets irritated or impatient with. The past couple of years he was really trying to lure her back in the studio with him but it didn't work. I think she had a big grudge over SYW which she didn't like making nor did she like the final product so she thought a new FM album would be like SYW part 2. Even I thought this as well which is why I was pleasantly surprised by the BuckVie album. It was overall very sunny and fun and light and I think had she known it would end up sounding that way, she might've agreed to do it.
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  #21  
Old 05-16-2018, 03:04 AM
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MoonSister75 MoonSister75 is offline
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Originally Posted by markolas View Post
People have created an entire alternate reality in their own heads. Apparently, Mick and Stevie orchestrated this and it was a plot. A plot against Lindsey! And Christine is either a skank, or she's gotten too old and senile to object.

I love Lindsey and when I saw the first article about him being fired, I thought it was a joke. It was a huge shock and I understand why people are upset. I was upset, too. But I don't know these people. I don't know what their motives were.

I've said for a long time that you can read between the lines of Stevie's comments about not wanting to record with Fleetwood Mac, and what she's really saying is that she doesn't want to record with Lindsey. Him, specifically. There is evidently something about their dynamic in a recording studio that she just can't deal with and doesn't want to deal with.

Is that disappointing? Of course it is. But I don't know the woman, and (as far as I know) neither does anyone else here. I do know what it's like to have co-workers that you just can't have a functional professional relationship with, and what it's like to reach a point where you say "I just can't do it anymore." So I can't sit in judgment of her for that, as much as I'm disappointed that we won't get to hear new music from that lineup.

Stevie is probably a diva, and Lindsey is probably controlling, and that combined with their 45-year history together probably creates a lot of drama that is greatly intensified in a recording studio.

The facts are that nobody in the band has really said all that much about this situation, which leaves fans to spin their own elaborate stories, appropriately making heroes or villains of their favorite and non-favorite band members. Which is understandable, but I hope that people understand that their own bigotry shows, and their ranting says a lot more about them that it does about the members of FM. And it's often not pretty.
Really appreciate your post. It eloquently sums up how I feel about the changes in the band, and the ranting on this board.
Agree with everything you wrote.
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  #22  
Old 05-16-2018, 08:37 AM
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sodascouts sodascouts is offline
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If it wasn't Lindsey's choice, Christine was not involved, and John was... John, then who is left to actively want Lindsey out?

It pains me to say it because I love Stevie, but the conclusion is inevitable.

This has not made me hate Stevie, though. I for one think her mind was clouded with grief, and Mick went along with it because he knows she is the one who brings in the most fans.
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  #23  
Old 05-19-2018, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by gldstwmn View Post
When they started to turn on Christine I realized that we'd started to cross the Rubicon.
Reading the threads in the Rumours forum, yeah it seems like there's been an element of misogyny in the over-the-top rage being expressed by some posters. It makes it difficult to take anything they say seriously.

I found it annoying that Nicks was avoiding recording a new Mac album, and I can see why Buckingham fans would feel its really unfair that Nicks didn't get bounced out of the band for refusing to record but Buckingham does for refusing to tour. I think it IS unfair, but I also think its the reality of the business side of Fleetwood Mac: Initially Nicks didn't have much influence in the band even though she was the obvious star of the band. That has changed over the years, I think - Nicks wasn't fired for refusing to record because she couldn't be, whereas Buckingham was fired for not touring because he doesn't hold the power in the band now - Nicks (and Fleetwood) do.

Ultimately though I think the working relationship between Buckingham and Nicks just finally completely broke down, so this result was eventually inevitable. And I think what many irate posters on this board are forgetting is that Fleetwood Mac has always morphed into different bands....saying that Mac should have "just broken up" instead of moving on post-Buckingham is ignoring that fact.
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  #24  
Old 05-25-2018, 03:30 AM
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I get very annoyed and disheartened when seeing people apparently blaming Stevie for some of Lindsey's behaviour and the times he most definitely crossed the line as a band member (which has been well documented by various people who are not all team Stevie) - like 'she drove him to it'. Yes I know Stevie has her ego and impetuousness etc but that's no countenance, nor is it okay because particular person is supposed to be a 'musical genius'.

Everything that's been said about Stevie to date could also be applied to Lindsey. So I'm not into blame game.

There are people who say Lindsey's more disturbing behaviour is all in the past, he's mellowed, etc. We might just be seeing one side. The descriptions of him during Rumours and Tusk are almost as if a 'split personality'. Going from charming and agreeable to negative and very testy in an instant. I think he'd still have a tendency to be egotistical, controlling, impatient and difficult to deal with at times.

Over the years it seems Christine has often acted as calming influence and diplomat between parties, but she can't handle all of it and it doesn't fix underlying issues.

I love LB's brilliance as a guitarist and what he contributed. I'm sorry they couldn't work things out so he could continue with the group. It's a shame if he still can't get past his insecurities. (Egotistical people can still have serious insecurities. In fact there may often be a connection.) I believe that Mick may also have had his own difference of opinion with Lindsey. But probably no side entirely to blame on this one. To pin it all on Stevie I think is unfair and yes - shades of misogyny.

I'm not saying all this just to 'hate on' LB. My favourite FM albums are still the ones with Buckingham Nicks but I am aware they had interesting history before that and Buckingham isn't everything about this group.

I still have a few misgivings but willing to give the new lineup a chance.

Last edited by Missy : 05-25-2018 at 04:01 AM.
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  #25  
Old 06-05-2018, 08:12 AM
JohnL JohnL is offline
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Originally Posted by markolas View Post
People have created an entire alternate reality in their own heads. Apparently, Mick and Stevie orchestrated this and it was a plot. A plot against Lindsey! And Christine is either a skank, or she's gotten too old and senile to object.

I love Lindsey and when I saw the first article about him being fired, I thought it was a joke. It was a huge shock and I understand why people are upset. I was upset, too. But I don't know these people. I don't know what their motives were.

I've said for a long time that you can read between the lines of Stevie's comments about not wanting to record with Fleetwood Mac, and what she's really saying is that she doesn't want to record with Lindsey. Him, specifically. There is evidently something about their dynamic in a recording studio that she just can't deal with and doesn't want to deal with.

Is that disappointing? Of course it is. But I don't know the woman, and (as far as I know) neither does anyone else here. I do know what it's like to have co-workers that you just can't have a functional professional relationship with, and what it's like to reach a point where you say "I just can't do it anymore." So I can't sit in judgment of her for that, as much as I'm disappointed that we won't get to hear new music from that lineup.

Stevie is probably a diva, and Lindsey is probably controlling, and that combined with their 45-year history together probably creates a lot of drama that is greatly intensified in a recording studio.

The facts are that nobody in the band has really said all that much about this situation, which leaves fans to spin their own elaborate stories, appropriately making heroes or villains of their favorite and non-favorite band members. Which is understandable, but I hope that people understand that their own bigotry shows, and their ranting says a lot more about them that it does about the members of FM. And it's often not pretty.
This is the most common sense response I have seen on any section of this board about this issue. Thank you. They all contributed to this...but the fact remains that it is over and we probably will never know all the reasons. Time to move on!!
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  #26  
Old 06-05-2018, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by markolas View Post
People have created an entire alternate reality in their own heads. Apparently, Mick and Stevie orchestrated this and it was a plot. A plot against Lindsey! And Christine is either a skank, or she's gotten too old and senile to object.

I love Lindsey and when I saw the first article about him being fired, I thought it was a joke. It was a huge shock and I understand why people are upset. I was upset, too. But I don't know these people. I don't know what their motives were.

I've said for a long time that you can read between the lines of Stevie's comments about not wanting to record with Fleetwood Mac, and what she's really saying is that she doesn't want to record with Lindsey. Him, specifically. There is evidently something about their dynamic in a recording studio that she just can't deal with and doesn't want to deal with.

Is that disappointing? Of course it is. But I don't know the woman, and (as far as I know) neither does anyone else here. I do know what it's like to have co-workers that you just can't have a functional professional relationship with, and what it's like to reach a point where you say "I just can't do it anymore." So I can't sit in judgment of her for that, as much as I'm disappointed that we won't get to hear new music from that lineup.

Stevie is probably a diva, and Lindsey is probably controlling, and that combined with their 45-year history together probably creates a lot of drama that is greatly intensified in a recording studio.

The facts are that nobody in the band has really said all that much about this situation, which leaves fans to spin their own elaborate stories, appropriately making heroes or villains of their favorite and non-favorite band members. Which is understandable, but I hope that people understand that their own bigotry shows, and their ranting says a lot more about them that it does about the members of FM. And it's often not pretty.
You hit it right on the head. Lindsey is very, very talented but recording with him is exhausting. He is a dominating presence who wants to control every element of the recording process and it takes many, many months to record an album with him. That's why Stevie wants no part of that process. That is why Stevie is very likely to change her tune about recording once she sees how wonderful a collaborator and songwriter Neil Finn is. In fact, Neil just recorded his last album (the amazing "Out of Silence") in eight hours which was broadcast live on Facebook and YouTube. Eight hours of collaborative joy with Neil vs. eight months of dictatorial pain with Lindsey.
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  #27  
Old 06-05-2018, 01:16 PM
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Note to Neil's resident cheerleader: Christine McVie and the other members of Fleetwood Mac seemed to have no problem working with Lindsey on the "BuckVie" album. Sounds like you're just parroting the opinion of the only member who has a problem working with him. This is exactly why it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who wanted him replaced by a Heartbreaker, killing two birds with one stone, figuratively speaking.
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FYI: The Rumours lineup = Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Christine McVie, Lindsey Buckingham & Stevie Nicks.

The lineup featuring Mike Campbell & Neil Finn is a Post-Rumours lineup of the band.


After 14 yrs visiting a site I once enjoyed which covered a band I once loved following, I now ‘Say Goodbye’ to both
No thanks to the faction within FM which destroyed its legacy & heavy-handed mod michelej1


This site operates at the whim of the admin&mods–a whim I'll no longer be associated with
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  #28  
Old 06-05-2018, 01:53 PM
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Note to Neil's resident cheerleader: Christine McVie and the other members of Fleetwood Mac seemed to have no problem working with Lindsey on the "BuckVie" album. Sounds like you're just parroting the opinion of the only member who has a problem working with him. This is exactly why it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who wanted him replaced by a Heartbreaker, killing two birds with one stone, figuratively speaking.
Christine would never say a bad word about anyone.

John rarely complains about anything.

Mick didn't complain often about Lindsey as Mick is usually focused on getting the best quality studio album completed.

So that leaves Stevie as the one to speak out about Lindsey's exhausting studio projects. Anyone who has watched one of the Mac documentaries knows that Lindsey spends many, many months on an album project sometimes spending weeks on a single song while keeping the other band members in a separate room waiting for hours until Lindsey needs them for something. Lindsey can sometimes take days to decide on one small part of one song. And I commend Lindsey for his hard work and single-minded focus which is an extraordinary skill that resulted in some of the best music of all-time. However, I don't think it's unreasonable for Stevie to say that at the age of 70, she no longer wants to go through that exhausting process of recording a studio album with Lindsey.
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Old 06-05-2018, 02:15 PM
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Note to Neil's resident cheerleader: Christine McVie and the other members of Fleetwood Mac seemed to have no problem working with Lindsey on the "BuckVie" album. Sounds like you're just parroting the opinion of the only member who has a problem working with him. This is exactly why it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who wanted him replaced by a Heartbreaker, killing two birds with one stone, figuratively speaking.
And anyone who knows me will tell you that I don't parrot anyone ...
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Old 06-05-2018, 02:44 PM
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Christine would never say a bad word about anyone.

John rarely complains about anything.

Mick didn't complain often about Lindsey as Mick is usually focused on getting the best quality studio album completed.

So that leaves Stevie as the one to speak out about Lindsey's exhausting studio projects. Anyone who has watched one of the Mac documentaries knows that Lindsey spends many, many months on an album project sometimes spending weeks on a single song while keeping the other band members in a separate room waiting for hours until Lindsey needs them for something. Lindsey can sometimes take days to decide on one small part of one song. And I commend Lindsey for his hard work and single-minded focus which is an extraordinary skill that resulted in some of the best music of all-time. However, I don't think it's unreasonable for Stevie to say that at the age of 70, she no longer wants to go through that exhausting process of recording a studio album with Lindsey.
This post amuses me, you referring to the band members as if you know them.
But anyways, it's not that Christine "doesn't say anything bad about anyone". First of all she actually has-- she can be very blunt and she has openly critiqued both Stevie and Lindsey in the past. Apparently (on a lighter note) she even would tell engineers what "ugly fcking shirts" they're wearing!
Second of all, she actually spoke actively about how much she LOVED making the album. Not like she just "didn't say anything bad", she really praised the experience. In a radio interview she did just around the end of last year she casually referred to Lindsey as her "favorite guy to work with".
But I do agree with you that Lindsey's pace probably makes Stevie impatient because it's no fun to her. She's even said she just thinks Lindsey's process is no fun. However I think it's absolutely ridiculous that people think she can just not do it, just because she doesn't want to. She's a member of a band. It's her obligation as a band member to record with her band when they want to record. It wasn't just Lindsey who was ready to record-- it was all of them. Imagine if someone just walked into work and said they don't want to do whatever project their coworkers are doing, just because they don't want to. That's not how life works. Lindsey himself by all accounts had a miserable, near sanity breaking experience recording Tango-- complete with Mick passing out drunk/high in his home, Stevie flying off to sing with Tom Petty for no reason and more-- but he still did it! It's ridiculous that this band has become the "whatever Stevie wants" show.
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