Is this fair?

[lovethemac1]

[QUOTE=StevieandChris;1232251]Obviously, this is a losing argument here. The people who call Stevie fans delusional are often just as deluded about Lindsey and his actions because he is a “musical genius” who does no wrong. Many have hated Stevie for years, and relish at having something else to harp on. The cries about tarnishing the legacy are not authentic, because many would be rejoicing if Stevie was the one fired instead of Lindsey.

Again, I think Lindsey contributed to his own ouster by his past and current behavior, current possibly being whatever went down that we are not privy to.

Much like Stevie would have contributed to her ouster if they *had* decided to fire her. If this tour tanks, maybe she is next.

I love the band but do not feel sympathy for a single member.[/QUOTE


You are dead wrong in my case, and probably others.

Fleetwood Mac super fan first. Then I was a Stevie super fan, a very close second. And then Mick. No more, not even remotely. I am disgusted with their behavior.

[dreamsunwind]

Originally Posted by StevieandChris

Notice I did not say all. I said the ones who I call Stevie fans delusional. If a fan lays the blame solely on Stevie, and does not accept that Lindsey played a part in this, by his past and current actions, then yes, that fan is delusional.

You keep saying this but I never understand what you mean by it. The 70s and 80s and 90s and even 2000s are over and the band isn't lingering in them. If you actually think someone woke up and said Lindsey doesn't deserve to be in the band anymore because he was a pain in the butt during Tusk or whenever else then I really don't know what to tell you. The entire band would've all fired each other decades ago if that's the way things worked and I guarantee it. And as for "current actions", you don't know what happened. None of us do. What we do know is that Lindsey had some solo touring thing he wanted and it's not true that he asked for a delay. We also know Lindsey wanted to make a final FM album and Stevie didn't so he released with Christine instead. Maybe that rumor about Stevie giving an ultimatum because she didn't want to tour with Lindsey anymore is true. Maybe she did just want Mike Campbell in the band and it all went downhill from there. Maybe he did yell at Karen. All we can do is speculate about those details but you can't say you know that this is what happened.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by button-lip

Too bad Stevie was never a "musical genius" to cover for her actions during these past 40 years...

The words $tevie Nick$ and genius have NEVER been used in the same sentence!!!!


Well, except when they were talking about her and Lindsey.

[StevieandChris]

Originally Posted by dreamsunwind

You keep saying this but I never understand what you mean by it. The 70s and 80s and 90s and even 2000s are over and the band isn't lingering in them. If you actually think someone woke up and said Lindsey doesn't deserve to be in the band anymore because he was a pain in the butt during Tusk or whenever else then I really don't know what to tell you. The entire band would've all fired each other decades ago if that's the way things worked and I guarantee it. And as for "current actions", you don't know what happened. None of us do. What we do know is that Lindsey had some solo touring thing he wanted and it's not true that he asked for a delay. We also know Lindsey wanted to make a final FM album and Stevie didn't so he released with Christine instead. Maybe that rumor about Stevie giving an ultimatum because she didn't want to tour with Lindsey anymore is true. Maybe she did just want Mike Campbell in the band and it all went downhill from there. Maybe he did yell at Karen. All we can do is speculate about those details but you can't say you know that this is what happened.

How is it hard to figure out what I mean? He was an ass in the studio in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and 2000s, so why would it be any different in the 2010s? It did not stop at Tusk. He was an ass for 50 years and it caught up with him. All you have to do is watch and listen to his interviews and you can see his jerkishness and overinflated ego (which does not mean Stevie or Mick do not have overinflated egos and bitchiness and pettiness too: they do and the backlash shows it is catching up with them too). I thought his comments about Christine’s songs leading up to BM were insufferable.

My point is that Lindsey was not completely blameless in getting fired. He was just unlucky that he was booted first.

[dreamsunwind]

Originally Posted by StevieandChris

How is it hard to figure out what I mean? He was an ass in the studio in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and 2000s, so why would it be any different in the 2010s? It did not stop at Tusk. He was an ass for 50 years and it caught up with him. All you have to do is watch and listen to his interviews and you can see his jerkishness and overinflated ego (which does not mean Stevie or Mick do not have overinflated egos and bitchiness and pettiness too: they do and the backlash shows it is catching up with them too). I thought his comments about Christine’s songs leading up to BM were insufferable.

The fact that this is the reasoning tells me enough. I actually thought you'd have a better explanation.

[StevieandChris]

Originally Posted by dreamsunwind

The fact that this is the reasoning tells me enough. I actually thought you'd have a better explanation.

There is no explanation that will ever suit you. In your eyes, and a certain other group of fan’s eyes, Stevie is guilty no matter what. Evil Incarnate. If Lindsey’s firing was not the focus, there would be another thing to harp about.

[jeets2000]

Originally Posted by StevieandChris

There is no explanation that will ever suit you. In your eyes, and a certain other group of fan’s eyes, Stevie is guilty no matter what. Evil Incarnate. If Lindsey’s firing was not the focus, there would be another thing to harp about.

I mean, this is ridiculous hyperbole.

Sorry that your argument isn't compelling, but prolonged periods of "jerkishness" hardly seems grounds for the firing of a band member. What I believe dreamsunwind was saying is that much of what you're citing was water under the bridge for these guys... decades ago.

[dreamsunwind]

Originally Posted by StevieandChris

There is no explanation that will ever suit you. In your eyes, and a certain other group of fan’s eyes, Stevie is guilty no matter what. Evil Incarnate. If Lindsey’s firing was not the focus, there would be another thing to harp about.

Please do not talk as if you know a single thing about what I think. If you actually did you'd know that I've never once said anything remotely along the lines of suggesting that Stevie is "evil incarnate". I've always loved Stevie, she's what really got me into FM and I'll always love her music, but the way she's been lately about the band and her career in general (refusing to record, not even putting out new solo music, just touring, passive aggressive comments etc etc) has really disappointed me, and this is way before any of this drama got started. To group anyone who critiques what's gone on here and seriously questions the intentions behind the band in that category is ridiculous. I've never thought Lindsey was some angel in this situation. But you don't have to think he was angel to think he didn't deserve this and that what's happened is wrong and shouldn't have happened and that it reflects badly on the band. And to say that he "deserved" it because he was such a big old ass 24/7 is just as naive, problematic and oversimplifying as to say Stevie that is "evil incarnate".

[dreamsunwind]

Originally Posted by jeets2000

I mean, this is ridiculous hyperbole.

Sorry that your argument isn't compelling, but prolonged periods of "jerkishness" hardly seems grounds for the firing of a band member. What I believe dreamsunwind was saying is that much of what you're citing was water under the bridge for these guys... decades ago.

Yup!
And the fact that they haven't even been in the studio in 15 years. Unless you count BuckVie which by all accounts went smoothly. And I'd never deny that he exhibited a lot of jerky behavior back in the day but to say "he was an ass in the studio in the 70s and 80s and 90s and 2000s" is an exaggeration/oversimplification that also overlooks a lot of other things. Such as during Tango when he was basically the only band member aside from Christine that was actually even trying to make an album. Mick and Stevie don't even remember much about the making of that album since they were stoned/high/not even there. Or that no one really had any complaints about Mirage. Or that they didn't even record a studio album during the 90s. Or that we know what the issues about SYW were etc etc.

[StevieandChris]

Originally Posted by jeets2000

I mean, this is ridiculous hyperbole.

Sorry that your argument isn't compelling, but prolonged periods of "jerkishness" hardly seems grounds for the firing of a band member. What I believe dreamsunwind was saying is that much of what you're citing was water under the bridge for these guys... decades ago.

It’s your prerogative to find your theories more compelling than mine.

Obviously it isn’t water under the bridge. Lindsey is out. For now.

[StevieandChris]

Originally Posted by dreamsunwind

Please do not talk as if you know a single thing about what I think. If you actually did you'd know that I've never once said anything remotely along the lines of suggesting that Stevie is "evil incarnate". I've always loved Stevie, she's what really got me into FM and I'll always love her music, but the way she's been lately about the band and her career in general (refusing to record, not even putting out new solo music, just touring, passive aggressive comments etc etc) has really disappointed me, and this is way before any of this drama got started. To group anyone who critiques what's gone on here and seriously questions the intentions behind the band in that category is ridiculous. I've never thought Lindsey was some angel in this situation. But you don't have to think he was angel to think he didn't deserve this and that what's happened is wrong and shouldn't have happened and that it reflects badly on the band. And to say that he "deserved" it because he was such a big old ass 24/7 is just as naive, problematic and oversimplifying as to say Stevie that is "evil incarnate".

Obviously we have to agree to disagree. I stand by what I post, you stand by what you post.

[TheWildHeart67]

Nobody will win this debate.
It's all purely speculation, and assumptions.
And fans pointing fingers at each camp.
Childish, really.
We all love this band, yet so many fans on this board seem to take sides, ferociously against each other. The drama reminds me of an old episode of 'Melrose Place." Amanda VS Alison. LoL.

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally Posted by sue

I think people are talking at cross purposes....
Gldstwmn mentioned about Lindsey being invited to rehearse but I think he was
talking about 1986/7 and Lindsey then leaving the band
People then thought gldstwmn meant like Now....
I think......

Although it half rang true, I wasn't entirely sure either, so I couched my theorising in hypothetical terms ('my theory would be'). Apologies for contributing to our little 'fake news' diversion there

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by TheWildHeart67

Nobody will win this debate.
It's all purely speculation, and assumptions.
And fans pointing fingers at each camp.
Childish, really.
We all love this band, yet so many fans on this board seem to take sides, ferociously against each other. The drama reminds me of an old episode of 'Melrose Place." Amanda VS Alison. LoL.

Nailed it! Amanda vs. Allison. Lol I almost forgot.

[button-lip]

Originally Posted by StevieandChris

Those shawls and tambourines come in handy.

Not anymore, according to ticket sales.

And I'm SO glad all of you Stevie's fans are seeing it now!