Say You Will/Christine

[Tusky]

Hi - how much do we know about Christine floating the idea of recording but not touring? It seemed to be before the recording of SYW (it's not mentioned in Destiny Rules), so do we know the content of those conversations and if she offered them songs?

[Wdm6789]

Didn’t she contribute backing vocals or something?

[Mr Scarrott]

Originally Posted by Wdm6789

Didn’t she contribute backing vocals or something?

Yes and no. She appears on two tracks. The studio version of Bleed to love her was recorded at the time of the Dance. Steal your heart away was a reworking of a Lindsey track with Christine backing vocals that appeared on the Best Buy CD that accompanied the Dance tour. I'm not sure that John McVie was on that one, and John Pierce may have played bass instead. Stevie is seen and heard adding backing vocals to the track on the Destiny Rules video and she remarks something along the lines of "is that Chris?".

So she didn't provide any new backing vocals per se. But at least we got one post-Tango studio track with just the five, although the reason we didn't get any more was sadly lost in a scrap-heap of chiffon.

[WalkAThinLine.]

Originally Posted by Tusky

Hi - how much do we know about Christine floating the idea of recording but not touring? It seemed to be before the recording of SYW (it's not mentioned in Destiny Rules), so do we know the content of those conversations and if she offered them songs?

Yes, Mick talked about it in his second book, Play On.

"We carried on without her [Christine] and recorded Say You Will, which was definitely a seismic shift in the group dynamic when it came to recording and songwriting, because of her absence. Chris did stay in touch during the making of that record and there were times when it was clear to us that she missed being in the band. She spoke to me and to Lindsey, and I believe she made a few phone calls to Stevie as well, during which she alluded that she might like to contribute to the album...That, however, would be opening a major can of worms and the rest of us knew it. If she wrote songs, then she would have to rejoin the band and really do it, because at that point we were halfway toward re-establishing ourselves without her.

After one of those calls from her, I'd always tell Lindsey: 'I got another call from Chris, have you? She's called me a few times, throwing around the possibility of writing for us'. 'Well she's not. She's gone,' Lindsey would say, without hesitation. All the same, I know that Lindsey started to believe that Chris might return, particularly during the early stages of recording Say You Will. He and I disagreed completely on this, however I knew how serious Chris was about the change in her lifestyle that departing the band meant to her , while Lindsey thought it was just a momentary phase. In the end, I was right" - pp. 280-281

[WatchChain]

Christine's absence on the "Say You Will" album is sorely felt.

Without Chris, the album became two solo albums loosely stitched together. The Mark Needham/Chris Lord-Alge fiasco adds to the drama.

"Say You Will" definitely has great moments, it's just not very cohesive.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by WatchChain

Christine's absence on the "Say You Will" album is sorely felt.

I totally agree. If she was afraid of flights and wanted to stay in England, I always thought why the band didn't record the album in England with her, no matter she wouldn't be in the tour (if Lindsey wasn't in the Tango tour, then why not?).

[WatchChain]

Originally Posted by Villavic

If she was afraid of flights and wanted to stay in England, I always thought why the band didn't record the album in England

I never bought the whole storyline that Christine was afraid to fly. I think it was just an excuse.

By 1998, I think Christine was just done with the whole scene. She had been touring and running in rock-n-roll circles for 30 years at that point.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by WatchChain

I never bought the whole storyline that Christine was afraid to fly. I think it was just an excuse.

By 1998, I think Christine was just done with the whole scene. She had been touring and running in rock-n-roll circles for 30 years at that point.

Agreed. She'd dreamed of retiring from that regimen for a long, long time.
It was time for it to happen, even if it was a Temporary One.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by WatchChain

I never bought the whole storyline that Christine was afraid to fly. I think it was just an excuse.

By 1998, I think Christine was just done with the whole scene. She had been touring and running in rock-n-roll circles for 30 years at that point.

Fear of flying was a front. It was true, but not the whole truth by any stretch.

And they(FM) also had to change their drug narrative. In 1997, you can't be talking about doing coke, booze, weed or pills as an ad for selling albums. 20 years later, society begs celebrities to lie to them. So ALL of them tried to have a narrative that they don't have sex or get wasted anymore.

And if you believe that, stand on your head. I think both Mick and Christine kept saying on that tour that they were having "a glass" of wine. And tea... or some bull****. I remember thinking, how boring.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by WatchChain

I never bought the whole storyline that Christine was afraid to fly. I think it was just an excuse.

By 1998, I think Christine was just done with the whole scene. She had been touring and running in rock-n-roll circles for 30 years at that point.

She was over it by the early/mid 90s. Supposedly she did not want to record Time but Warner would not let the project happen without Christine and a known Fleetwood Mac singer. She stated during that time that the 1994 LA earthquake scared her to death and she was getting her English roots calling her home. Her house was finished there and it was perfect timing. She reluctantly did the Dance for the band. She was a trooper and put the band ahead of herself. Even back in 1997 you could sense she was not that happy. Just remember how many times we heard the other band members say she told them to DONT ASK anymore. She was not going to extend another 6 months. You know she was unhappy because the Dance was huge. Every night sold out across the USA. They wanted to take the tour to Europe. Even the money and success could not keep her. Even the band being upset their golden ticket tour was over was not enough to get her to change her mind. If you read the lyrics to Hollywood Some Other Kind Of Town explains she is done and moving on.
Her father's death also changed her. The death of all of our parents is a benchmark in our lives. The BTM world tour was brutal. Stevie was even complaining to Mick he was adding too many shows. Mick knew it would be their last cash cow and added so many shows. Chris said she could not sleep in a different hotel every night and would drink a bottle of wine to knock her out. She would wake up hung over and it was an endless cycle. She came back that fall 1990 and finished the tour but then even before that tour ended, both her and Stevie said they were done touring with the band. Thus the "Farewell Tour" was born for those last couple months.

[DownOnRodeo]

All the same, I know that Lindsey started to believe that Chris might return (...). He and I disagreed completely on this, however I knew how serious Chris was about the change in her lifestyle that departing the band meant to her, while Lindsey thought it was just a momentary phase. In the end, I was right" - pp. 280-281

In the end, Lindsey was right. (It just took another ten years.)

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by DownOnRodeo

In the end, Lindsey was right. (It just took another ten years.)

Yes. And it's weird cause though probably Mick wrote he was right while Chris was still in retirement, the audio book was released in oct. 2014 and the printed book in dec 2014, both when the On with the Show tour was already on the road. Was there no time to update it?

[aleuzzi]

They did an admirable job of carrying on without her, thanks in large part to Lindsey’s energy on stage. (However, Stevie’s celebrity was the reason they were able to keep going.)

But admirable is a far cry from stellar, or even wholly convincing. Christine’s absence on the record is glaring. It occasionally even hurts. But in terms of a traditional band concept, her refusal to tour could have hurt the cause if she’d ended up on the record.

For what it’s worth, I always think the record is far more crucial than the tours. It’s what left after the ephemeral excitement of a live show fades into memory. I would have preferred her on SYW. On the other hand, Lindsey’s integrity about his position transferred to his stage presence: he worked damn hard in the early 2000s for that band. I saw them for the unleashed tour. He was the focal point—and he did things with John and Mick they’d never managed before.

One other note: in an interview around 2004, John was asked what he thought of Christine’s then new solo album. He thought it sounded good but would have been better had she worked with FM. At the time I was annoyed by this: I thought he was dinging Christine’s work. In hindsight, I realize he may have been giving a jab to Lindsey, essentially voicing his support of her presence in the band on record.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

They did an admirable job of carrying on without her, thanks in large part to Lindsey’s energy on stage. (However, Stevie’s celebrity was the reason they were able to keep going.)

But admirable is a far cry from stellar, or even wholly convincing. Christine’s absence on the record is glaring. It occasionally even hurts. But in terms of a traditional band concept, her refusal to tour could have hurt the cause if she’d ended up on the record.

For what it’s worth, I always think the record is far more crucial than the tours. It’s what left after the ephemeral excitement of a live show fades into memory. I would have preferred her on SYW. On the other hand, Lindsey’s integrity about his position transferred to his stage presence: he worked damn hard in the early 2000s for that band. I saw them for the unleashed tour. He was the focal point—and he did things with John and Mick they’d never managed before.

One other note: in an interview around 2004, John was asked what he thought of Christine’s then new solo album. He thought it sounded good but would have been better had she worked with FM. At the time I was annoyed by this: I thought he was dinging Christine’s work. In hindsight, I realize he may have been giving a jab to Lindsey, essentially voicing his support of her presence in the band on record.

This kind of leads me to believe she kept writing and would have offered her ITM songs to SYW. Or was wanting to.

I'm glad we got ITM instead. It's a little masterpiece.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

They did an admirable job of carrying on without her, thanks in large part to Lindsey’s energy on stage. (However, Stevie’s celebrity was the reason they were able to keep going.)

I saw them in april 2009. Yes Lindsey's energy was THE show. Stevie sang fine, and including Storms in the setlist was a beautiful surprise. But she looked a bit tired. I think it was the 26th date so probably the tour was taking its toll. However Lindsey did look vitalized and played great.

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

For what it’s worth, I always think the record is far more crucial than the tours. It’s what left after the ephemeral excitement of a live show fades into memory.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think in the 70s and 80s the tours role was to support the record sales. Nowadays the tours are the point in the business model so they have to perform a great show. Then the records are losing their crucial role.