Mick's book- the "Time" Band

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

I can't recall, but I thought I already had the Time album when I saw this show. But I've seen some posts saying that the album didn't come out until after their tour.

It was released Oct. 10, 1995. There was BTM with Billy and "Shakin' The Cage" by the Zoo with Bekka.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Probably. The fact is they never toured in support of that album, so we'll never really know what potential it had, if any. Given the weak sales numbers of the solo albums by Stevie and Lindsey, I doubt it would have done a lot better.

The problem with the whole era, starting with the Tango tour, is that they were too subservient to the Rumours legacy, which was understandable, but not something that they had done during the previous personnel changes. They didn't do any Peter Green songs on the Kiln House tour, for example. As a result, the new members were allowed to develop their own identities within the context of Fleetwood Mac.

Wasn't until Welch got in the band did they start adding Peter's tunes again. (and even Danny took a shot at singing "Black Magic Woman" for a while...that was pretty cool; he did a great job with it.)

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

The show was fine for what it was. But it was a little disconcerting when they performed classic Fleetwood Mac songs. Most of the audience was likely very confused and not informed about drastic line up change. Only a fraction of the venue was filled, and I saw people walking out during the show. It was sad. I recall feeling so worried about what kind of future was in store for the band.

It really WASN'T "drastic", the changes happened over the course of about 8 years...it wasn't their fault if you (the euphemistic "you", not "you" in particular) didn't "keep up". I saw them almost a year to the day before the Time album came out...(T-shirts & posters were promoting the "upcoming album Another Link In The Chain")...they were great! (even a guest appearance by Bekka's mom, Bonnie) It was a bit weird seeing Dave Mason with them...but I figured that would be the case, since it was their first (and what turned out to be, only) tour with this lineup. Knowing that they would have to play a few of the Rumours hits, I was really looking forward to hearing what this lineup would come up on their own.

What has really surprised me is that the show I saw was broadcast in its entirety on then radio station KLSX-FM, yet I've never seen a recording of the show in bootleg trading circles. Did nobody at the radio station hit the "record" button?

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

I can't recall, but I thought I already had the Time album when I saw this show. But I've seen some posts saying that the album didn't come out until after their tour.

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

It was released Oct. 10, 1995. .

I believe the last tour date was in September of '95...but the website I normally go to "fact check" myself on FMac tour related things isn't in biz anymore.

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by Street_Dreamer

Billy doesn't get nearly enough credit for his abilities as an artist and a songwriter. He's always been able to fit himself into different music genres seamlessly and with authenticity.

That is very true. Got to give him big props for his talent.

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by chiliD

It really WASN'T "drastic", the changes happened over the course of about 8 years...it wasn't their fault if you (the euphemistic "you", not "you" in particular) didn't "keep up".

Most people who go to Six Flags were there for the amusements and rides -- and not expecting or intending to see Fleetwood Mac there. I know I wasn't!

Many of the attendees who went to the show, did so on a whim, with little knowledge of the band's history and the various configurations and changes in the group.

I assume they expected to see the most famous incarnation of the band, and its most identifiable members: Stevie, Lindsey and Christine. For them, it certainly was DRASTIC (capitalized, italicized and bolded for dramatic emphasis, I guess! lol)

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

Most people who go to Six Flags were there for the amusements and rides -- and not expecting or intending to see Fleetwood Mac there. I know I wasn't!

Many of the attendees who went to the show, did so on a whim, with little knowledge of the band's history and the various configurations and changes in the group.

I assume they expected to see the most famous incarnation of the band, and its most identifiable members: Stevie, Lindsey and Christine. For them, it certainly was DRASTIC (capitalized, italicized and bolded for dramatic emphasis, I guess! lol)

Seriously? Who in their right mind would see a band playing at a Theme Park and expect it to be everybody who made the band one of the largest in the world? That's just foolish.

Nobody expects to see The Beach Boys, Herman's Hermits, The Turtles, Three Dog Night, or name any band of the '60s or '70s, and have it be any more than MAYBE the lead singer and a hired gun group backing them.

So, why would anyone think that seeing "Fleetwood Mac" at a Theme Park of any corporate ownership would be any more than Mick Fleetwood and John McVie, the band's namesakes, and people of varying degrees of fame elsewhere fronting the band?

Maybe I'm jaded, but I'd NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS ever expect that a famous band playing at a [insert one] a) Theme Park, b) County Fair, c) State Fair, to be the complete group that made the band famous. It's weird enough that someone like Bob Dylan plays those venues on a regular basis.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Seriously? Who in their right mind would see a band playing at a Theme Park and expect it to be everybody who made the band one of the largest in the world? That's just foolish.

I ultimately agree with your point. Let's face it, there aren't too many bands as famous as Fleetwood Mac, where most of the people who make up the classic line-up are famous in their own right. BUT, I do think people expect to see at least one of the singers that made a band famous. REO Speedwagon does it. The Bangles have everybody but Michael Steele and do it.

So, why would anyone think that seeing "Fleetwood Mac" at a Theme Park of any corporate ownership would be any more than Mick Fleetwood and John McVie, the band's namesakes, and people of varying degrees of fame elsewhere fronting the band?

Most people probably at least expected Christine or Lindsey to be there. If they weren't paying attention to what was going on in music, they likely missed Lindsey quit, far less knew that Billy had been with them for eight years (which is telling).

As I've said many times before, the fact that there was no album out made the lack of originals easier to deal with, but that package tour was just a bad idea all around. Opening for CSN was okay, especially given the connection between Dave (and even Bonnie Bramlett) and CSN. The ideal would have been to do a club tour and play mostly new songs from BTM and "Time," with a sprinkling of Mason and Mac classics.

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Seriously? Who in their right mind would see a band playing at a Theme Park and expect it to be everybody who made the band one of the largest in the world? That's just foolish.

My post was apparently misunderstood. A large portion of people in attendance at the park were likely not that informed about Fleetwood Mac and the changes in the band. They would likely only be aware of the most famous members of the band. Give me break. There is nothing foolish about. Beyond our myopic grand visions of the band, there exists a large population of people who aren't ardent followers. Seriously! Not acutely in touch with the band's evolustion, it is certain that many expected the line up they were most familiar with. I was there - I witnessed the confused reactions. Yes, this was an amusement park , with a large demographic of families and children; only a slightest fraction of attendees would have knowledge of the band's latest incarnation. The Time era was, indisputably, the most obscure transitional period in their history.

[Mr Scarrott]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Seriously? Who in their right mind would see a band playing at a Theme Park and expect it to be everybody who made the band one of the largest in the world? That's just foolish.

How was the show marketed at the park? Were there posters with the new-line up with their names added advertising the gig? It might have been a bit misleading otherwise to the casual, unknowing punter. But no-one surely could have expected the Rumours five, or even four of them.

I wondered who the folks who turned up at the 1993 Superbowl pre-show were expecting, particularly after the Clinton innauguation ball. That was after all, the one occasion when Chris played live with the band post- 1974 without either Stevie or Lindsey.

[cascade13]

Originally Posted by Mr Scarrott

How was the show marketed at the park? Were there posters with the new-line up with their names added advertising the gig? It might have been a bit misleading otherwise to the casual, unknowing punter. But no-one surely could have expected the Rumours five, or even four of them.

I wondered who the folks who turned up at the 1993 Superbowl pre-show were expecting, particularly after the Clinton innauguation ball. That was after all, the one occasion when Chris played live with the band post- 1974 without either Stevie or Lindsey.

That Great America show was my first-ever Fleetwood Mac show. When that lineup broke up a few months later, I figured for a while it'd be my *only* one!

Anyway, I remember it was advertised in the newspaper in a small box in the corner, in between Pat Benatar and REO Speedwagon, but no mention of who was in the band at that point. (I really only knew because of newsgroups and such back then.) At the park, there was a poster with an updated shot of the touring lineup (minus Steve Thoma) outside the amphitheater entrance, but no names at all. A couple people in front of us in line were lamenting the fact that FM had "no originals" at that point (Mick and John notwithstanding), but they did go in anyway...

In hindsight, it was a fun show, if not ground-breaking. FM was the middle act, after Pat Benatar (who was great), and we left a few songs into REO. Having seen the BN-based lineup three times, I can see what people realized they were missing, but I still think Billy's GYOW ranks up there with Lindsey's modern-day version (guitar solo aside).

[cascade13]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

So, Christine didn't like Dave, Bekka didn't like Dave, Richard Dashut didn't like Dave...Why exactly did they keep him around after Billy Burnette came back?

(I'm going back a little bit in the thread, I know, but hadn't read it until now.)

A few reasons, I'm guessing. If Billy had been comfortable as a lead guitarist, I assume they would have hired him in that capacity in the first place, not both him and Rick...so they still needed a separate lead guitarist alongside him. As to why they kept Dave instead of trying to coax Rick back, etc. ... Mick and Dave were tight, and Mick sold him on being a member of the band, so he probably didn't want to back away from his decision. And it probably didn't hurt Dave's cause that he was the most widely known singer/songwriter in the band, aside from Christine.

All that said, obviously it wasn't the *right* choice. I never saw the chemistry and camaraderie with Billy and Dave that I saw with Billy and Rick. (Maybe it's because they were both the "new guys" at the same time...) Dave and Billy seemed to co-exist more than collaborate, on stage and in studio. I'm not surprised Mick hit "detonate" on that lineup as soon as it was clear Time was going nowhere...

[wetcamelfood]

Originally Posted by cascade13

I never saw the chemistry and camaraderie with Billy and Dave that I saw with Billy and Rick. (Maybe it's because they were both the "new guys" at the same time...) Dave and Billy seemed to co-exist more than collaborate, on stage and in studio. I'm not surprised Mick hit "detonate" on that lineup as soon as it was clear Time was going nowhere...

Also, Billy knew Rick already (in fact he had suggested Rick to Mick when Mick asked Billy to join and Billy voiced his concerns over playing lead guitar & Billy thought Rick would be a good fit, Mick said he worked with Rick at a previous session and liked him, not sure which one, my guess is Billy's Way Down from the Just One Of The Guys soundtrack, if it was something that was released) and I don't know if Billy knew Dave well if at all when he joined so there seems to have been a lot of assuming on Mick's part that everyone would hit it off which we now know was not the case at all.

John

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by cascade13

(I'm going back a little bit in the thread, I know, but hadn't read it until now.)

A few reasons, I'm guessing. If Billy had been comfortable as a lead guitarist, I assume they would have hired him in that capacity in the first place, not both him and Rick...so they still needed a separate lead guitarist alongside him. As to why they kept Dave instead of trying to coax Rick back, etc. ... Mick and Dave were tight, and Mick sold him on being a member of the band, so he probably didn't want to back away from his decision. And it probably didn't hurt Dave's cause that he was the most widely known singer/songwriter in the band, aside from Christine.

All that said, obviously it wasn't the *right* choice. I never saw the chemistry and camaraderie with Billy and Dave that I saw with Billy and Rick. (Maybe it's because they were both the "new guys" at the same time...) Dave and Billy seemed to co-exist more than collaborate, on stage and in studio. I'm not surprised Mick hit "detonate" on that lineup as soon as it was clear Time was going nowhere...

Actually, I believe it was the other way 'round. Dave was staying in Mick's guest house in Malibu (or Pacific Palisades, wherever his house called "The Blue Whale" was)...while Mick was going through the motions trying to find a replacement for Rick, Dave just kept bugging Mick to just let him join the band & the search would be over. Mick kept putting him off for quite some time (according to some interview with Mick I read), but then finally relented. I think all the family tree stuff with Bekka's parents & Dave being in their band; and, Billy working with Delaney on an album or two, looked good on paper, but the reality didn't work as well as it probably should've, due to personalities that SEEMED like they'd mesh, when actually they didn't. (like what John said in his post right above me...note to self: read the ENTIRE previous post before hitting "reply")

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Seriously? Who in their right mind would see a band playing at a Theme Park and expect it to be everybody who made the band one of the largest in the world? That's just foolish. It's weird enough that someone like Bob Dylan plays those venues on a regular basis.

This shouldn't be a debate, so I agree with you. You're right. And I'm right. Fleetwood Mac in name, is a brand, and the general public knows, more or less, the main image of that brand as Stevie, Lindsey and Christine.

Yet Fleetwood Mac, while undeniably a high profile band, isn't as culturally omnipotent and universally familiar as Micky Mouse or McDonald's. And, in context of the musical landscape of the early 199os, they teetered on the edge of obsolescence. It's hard to conceive, but there is a large demographic of humanity that are not intimately attentive to the band, and many may only have a vague knowledge about them, with faint familiarity and recognition of a few of their popular songs.

It's a real long shot to expect them to theorize or question how a such a legendary band could possibly be appearing at an amusement park. It's not even reverentially conscience to them. And even casual fans of the band -- fans who aren't ardently following their every move, might not even be aware of the band's current status at that point. The Time band configuration and the Time album flew a little a bit lower on the radar. I give major credit to Mick for adding another link in the chain to keep the band alive. Even though it wasn't the strongest link, it served a greater purpose. He previously faced a similar situation when Peter Green went adrift.

Yes, it's foolish, so you're right.

[aleuzzi]

When Time works, it works surprisingly well, which is more than I can say for Behind the Mask.

I remember first hearing it and thinking Christine sounded fantastic vocally. I just couldn't stand the keyboards she chose to use. What's wrong with an acoustic piano and a Hammond B3? Or any other number of more professional sounding synthesizers?

I Got It In for You is a great tune, as are Nothing Without You, Winds of Change, and Talking to My Heart.

[FuzzyPlum]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

When Time works, it works surprisingly well, which is more than I can say for Behind the Mask.

I remember first hearing it and thinking Christine sounded fantastic vocally. I just couldn't stand the keyboards she chose to use. What's wrong with an acoustic piano and a Hammond B3? Or any other number of more professional sounding synthesizers?

I Got It In for You is a great tune, as are Nothing Without You, Winds of Change, and Talking to My Heart.

I think the majority of the songs on Time are decent songs. The overall sound is a bit 'light' though. Everyone goes on about how Stevie needs Lindsey's production touch- I think the same can equally be said of Christine's material. Her songs on Time are good and could have possibly appeared on any of the previous albums. Perhaps if she'd had Lindsey's involvement they would have been elevated to another level. The same can be said of her contributions to Behind The Mask and her solo albums- all decent songs that are just a bit short of what they could have been.