Making Rumours by Ken Caillat

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by David

It's funny you bring up that era because this discussion got me thinking about the reputation Fleetwood Mac used to have at that time. Probably not a lot of you even know or remember this, but in the mid and late 1970s, despite the overwhelming commercial success of Rumours, the band was widely known as having a great deal of business integrity. It wasn't just a confidence trick played on the press, either. Mac was by far the biggest band in the world that was self-managed (Mick & Seedy Mgmt), and it regularly turned down and successfully avoided the crass marketing ploys that all the other big rock bands like the Eagles and Van Halen and albums like Saturday Night Fever and Grease all trucked in. Music journalists used to ask Mick about the band's self-management and he always was very honest about all five of them wanting to maintain integrity: He didn't want record buyers to open a Fleetwood Mac album and find coupons for products and marketing tie-ins, like the Peter Frampton albums. (There's one little address for a fan club on the lyric insert for Rumours, but it's totally harmless, and there was nothing on Tusk.)

Not to say that Fleetwood Mac never gave an interview to a mass-market magazine, because we know that isn't true. But they didn't accept any offers to go from one dumb TV show to another (you can bet your life that Stevie Nicks was asked to go on Love Boat and Fantasy Island and all that crap), and their concerts were run like old-fashioned rock concerts (beer, pot, and tourbooks), and they didn't put their names on lines of clothing.

That reputation of the band back then was palpable and gave a lot of us fans a pleasurable buzz. The next two albums (Tusk and Live) were quirky and personal and maintained the band's reputation for doing exactly what it wanted to do. It was only with Mirage that Fleetwood Mac began to seem corporate in the bad sense of capitulating to commercial considerations.

Nobody else in rock n' roll was selling out to the masses either; Van Halen and the Eagles were not exactly lining up to do guest spots on Three's Company. It just wasn't cool. In fact, primetime television was the medium for musical irrelevance; it was too closely associated with the realm of the unhip- namely variety shows like The Donny and MarieShow, The Barbara Mandrell Show, The Captain and Tenille Show, The Sonny and Cher Show, etc. And by the time Davey Jones guested on The Brady Bunch, he was thoroughly washed up and hung out to dry. On these shows you would routinely see has-beens like Paul Anka, Frankie Valli, Charo, Glenn Campbell, John Denver and pre-comeback Tina Turner. Other than Elton John, no mainstream, relevant rock stars were doing these kinds of shows, let alone those weekly ensemble dramas like The Love Boat and Fantasy Island. Besides, Stevie and Lindsey were not considered to be high-profile names outside of the band.

It seems that primetime TV exposure was kinda taboo for rock and roll up until around the time when American Idol came on the scene and internet piracy started killing music sales. This is also around the time when rock pretty much vanished from hits radio and started appearing on television- on singing competitions, primetime series and commercials. I think Stevie's appearances on TV these past couple of years is just part of that natural evolution. She still has a name/image that is recognizeable and marketable. She briefly teetered on the edge of irrelevance back in the 1990s, so she definitely appreciates the fact that she is still a marquee name in this day and age. Since radio is not touching her with a ten-meter pole, she knows what she has to do to keep brand Stevie alive and well.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Nobody else in rock n' roll was selling out to the masses either; Van Halen and the Eagles were not exactly lining up to do guest spots on Three's Company. It just wasn't cool. In fact, primetime television was the medium for musical irrelevance; it was too closely associated with the realm of the unhip- namely variety shows like The Donny and MarieShow, The Barbara Mandrell Show, The Captain and Tenille Show, The Sonny and Cher Show, etc. And by the time Davey Jones guested on The Brady Bunch, he was thoroughly washed up and hung out to dry. On these shows you would routinely see has-beens like Paul Anka, Frankie Valli, Charo, Glenn Campbell, John Denver and pre-comeback Tina Turner. Other than Elton John, no mainstream, relevant rock stars were doing these kinds of shows, let alone those weekly ensemble dramas like The Love Boat and Fantasy Island. Besides, Stevie and Lindsey were not considered to be high-profile names outside of the band.

It seems that primetime TV exposure was kinda taboo for rock and roll up until around the time when American Idol came on the scene and internet piracy started killing music sales. This is also around the time when rock pretty much vanished from hits radio and started appearing on television- on singing competitions, primetime series and commercials. I think Stevie's appearances on TV these past couple of years is just part of that natural evolution. She still has a name/image that is recognizeable and marketable. She briefly teetered on the edge of irrelevance back in the 1990s, so she definitely appreciates the fact that she is still a marquee name in this day and age. Since radio is not touching her with a ten-meter pole, she knows what she has to do to keep brand Stevie alive and well.

But, Leif Garrett was huge when he appeared on Family. The Doobie Brothers were in What's Happening. Whitney Houston was on Silver Spoons, Friends had a lot of music artists guest - the list is endless really. For as many washed up singers (and actors) there have been just as many popular artists who have made cameos on daytime soaps, hit sitcoms and nighttime dramas as a vehicle for promoting themselves and their current hit and getting their face out there.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

But, Leif Garrett was huge when he appeared on Family. The Doobie Brothers were in What's Happening. Whitney Houston was on Silver Spoons, Friends had a lot of music artists guest - the list is endless really. For as many washed up singers (and actors) there have been just as many popular artists who have made cameos on daytime soaps, hit sitcoms and nighttime dramas as a vehicle for promoting themselves and their current hit and getting their face out there.

Oh please... Leif Garrett was the Justin Bieber of his day; so not cool. Yes, he, Shawn Cassidy, and Donny Osmond were on the cover of the teeny bopper magazines, but they had absolutely zero musical credibility. As for Whitney... I see no record of her appearing on "Silver Spoons." Her IMDB profile indicates that she appeared on "Gimme a Break" (RIP, Nell Carter ), but it was in 1984- two years prior to her breakthrough. Similarly, Janet Jackson appeared on "Good Times" and "Different Strokes" prior to her mainstream musical breakthrough. I don't see a record of Michael McDonald appearing on "What's Happening," so if the Doobies did appear on the show, I suspect it was after his departure, i.e., when they were pretty much washed-up.

In any event, I think the issue here is regarding whether it was hip for rock stars to do primetime TV back in the 1970s, and whether Stevie and Lindsey would have guest starred on one of those shows. I still believe that it was not so cool back then, whereas today it is actually a privilege.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

Oh, I know what they said. I think a lot of that is part of the game though because it keeps us talking...

Yes, I know we see things differently.

I don't buy the idea that they are engaged in some elaborate and ongoing scheme to mislead fans about their true relationship and objectives. If anything I think they seek to manipulate each other with their interview comments rather than their fans. They exagerate to spur a response from each other, not to fool us, in my view. When they express frustration with each other in the press, I think it is very real, not disastrous, or at all permanent, but real.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Yes, I know we see things differently.

I don't buy the idea that they are engaged in some elaborate and ongoing scheme to mislead fans about their true relationship and objectives. If anything I think they seek to manipulate each other with their interview comments rather than their fans. They exagerate to spur a response from each other, not to fool us, in my view. When they express frustration with each other in the press, I think it is very real, not disastrous, or at all permanent, but real.

They certainly know how to use the press. I just don't buy that they need to use it to take jabs at one another. They are on speaking terms. Lindsey didn't even know Stevie had a desire to be a Heartbreaker, so he must not be keeping up with her press too terribly much. God knows she's said that 1 million times...

Involved in a scheme? "Partners in Crime"... Ha!

As for their relationship & objectives - even they aren't very clear on that. (If you believe everything in their press).

I just don't believe ALL of anyone's press. It's a tool to reach the public for promotional purposes. We get to hear what they want us to hear. Whatever will get sales. But, of course it's obvious no matter how much they care about one another their relationship is far from rosey all the time either. I guess I believe the real truth is always somewhere in between, no matter if it's FM or politics or any other topic.

[ragrsrocalot]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

But, Leif Garrett was huge when he appeared on Family. The Doobie Brothers were in What's Happening. Whitney Houston was on Silver Spoons, Friends had a lot of music artists guest - the list is endless really. For as many washed up singers (and actors) there have been just as many popular artists who have made cameos on daytime soaps, hit sitcoms and nighttime dramas as a vehicle for promoting themselves and their current hit and getting their face out there.

I remember the Silver Spoons episode with Whitney, and I also remember the What's Happening episode with the Doobies, including Michael McDonald.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

On these shows you would routinely see has-beens like Paul Anka, Frankie Valli, Charo, Glenn Campbell, John Denver and pre-comeback Tina Turner.

I would agree with you that you didn't see hot rockers on these shows, but the singing guests weren't usually has beens (the comedy guests, ala Milton Berle, might have been). Glenn Campbell was on Sonny and Cher more than once, but one time he was on he had the hottest crossover hit in the country: Southern Nights. It's a song that I understand SnL have informally dueted on.

Debby Boone made the rounds on the shows that you mentioned when she had the country's numbe 1 song for weeks on end. Dolly Parton went on Cher's show when her album Here You Come Again was red hot. Kenny Rogers was also a staple. Now, you wouldn't see David Bowie on these variety shows, but country and adult contemporary artists went on there at their peaks.

Of course, sitcoms are another matter. I remember the What's Happening episode and the punch line was "Which Doobie you be?" I would not have wished that on Fleetwood Mac!


Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

They certainly know how to use the press. I just don't buy that they need to use it to take jabs at one another. They are on speaking terms. Lindsey didn't even know Stevie had a desire to be a Heartbreaker, so he must not be keeping up with her press too terribly much. God know she's said that 1 million times...

I don't think they NEED to talk to each other in the press, but I think they do.

When Lindsey told the press that Stevie never said thank you to him for SYW, I think that was 100% for her benefit. I think Mick's Playboy interview was targeted at Stevie, to put pressure on her to sign on for FM in 2013, sooner rather than later, and I bet you anything it succeeded.

When Lindsey was talking to the press about Sheryl Crow, I think he was doing it to put Sheryl in her place more than as a message to Stevie, but I am positive that Stevie saw all of his comments and devoutly wished that he would shut up. I think Lindsey said that because he DID read what Mick and Stevie were saying about Sheryl wanting time off for Mother's Day and he wanted to put a truer version of what happened out there. I think he did it in response to them.

He doesn't think they'll read his interviews, but he thinks that someone they associate with will read them and tell them what he said. I don't think he thinks that Christine hasn't heard his 30% more room, when she burned her bridges spiel.

When Stevie said she would walk out so fast that the palm trees would hit Lindsey on the head, I sure don't think she was saying it because she wanted fans to believe they were feuding. She had fun playing those games with Dave's Platinum Weird, but I don't think she and Lindsey are doing it in real life to keep the interest in FM heated up. There are only a handful of people who care about that kind of nonsense anyway and they are all probably right here on the board.

Michele

[The Chain]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

Lindsey didn't even know Stevie had a desire to be a Heartbreaker

sorry to get a little off topic here, but I'd love to read what article/interview where that was said, for some reason I find it kind of funny.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by The Chain

sorry to get a little off topic here, but I'd love to read what article/interview where that was said, for some reason I find it kind of funny.

It's in this interview. Lindsey couldn't even answer his own questions he was so busy rationalizing why Stevie would say that. Don't worry Lindsey, the Heartbreakers didn't want her. She is yours.

http://www.musicradar.com/news/guita...ood-mac-501690

[WildHearted]

Originally Posted by michelej1

It's in this interview. Lindsey couldn't even answer his own questions he was so busy rationalizing why Stevie would say that. Don't worry Lindsey, the Heartbreakers didn't want her. She is yours.

http://www.musicradar.com/news/guita...ood-mac-501690

This reminded me that just a few days ago (maybe a week by now, time always passes me by) Tom Petty (or whoever is in charge of TP's social networking sites) posted a link to the video of Learning to Fly from Live in Gatorville and said, ""Learning to Fly" with the one and only Stevie Nicks, the only girl in the Heartbreakers." I thought that was cute I know Stevie says it all the time but it was nice to hear it from the other side

anyway back on topic.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by michelej1

When Stevie said she would walk out so fast that the palm trees would hit Lindsey on the head,

One of my favorites!

Originally Posted by WildHearted

anyway back on topic.

Yeah, what is that again? LOL!

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Stick to speaking your mind please!
It is appreciated!

Thanks...I think...

[David]

Originally Posted by WildHearted

This reminded me that just a few days ago (maybe a week by now, time always passes me by) Tom Petty (or whoever is in charge of TP's social networking sites) posted a link to the video of Learning to Fly from Live in Gatorville and said, ""Learning to Fly" with the one and only Stevie Nicks, the only girl in the Heartbreakers." I thought that was cute I know Stevie says it all the time but it was nice to hear it from the other side

Does anyone remember the details of the story Stevie told in the early '80s about how she loved the Heartbreakers so much in 1978 that she practiced her Russian ballet to the You're Gonna Get It album? From there, she wangled a meeting with Jimmy Iovine for the first time backstage at a Fleetwood Mac concert at the L.A. Forum in 1979. Tom Petty brought Jimmy backstage, and she asked him at that meeting to produce her first solo album (which had no release date yet, but she had already signed with Modern).

Do I have this right or have I screwed it up?

[MikeInNV]

Originally Posted by David

Does anyone remember the details of the story Stevie told in the early '80s about how she loved the Heartbreakers so much in 1978 that she practiced her Russian ballet to the You're Gonna Get It album? From there, she wangled a meeting with Jimmy Iovine for the first time backstage at a Fleetwood Mac concert at the L.A. Forum in 1979. Tom Petty brought Jimmy backstage, and she asked him at that meeting to produce her first solo album (which had no release date yet, but she had already signed with Modern).

Do I have this right or have I screwed it up?

I don't know that story, but in the new Rolling Stone there is an interview with Jimmy in which he says that Paul Fishkin and Danny Goldberg asked him to produce BellaDonna.