Timespace era

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

The best part of the “Silver Springs” story is that it’s all BS.

Warner, not Mick, had the rights to release the song. Songs only go back to the artist if the song goes out of print for ten years. Warner reissued the song in 1988 or so as part of a Back-to-Back series of 45s. Mick couldn’t just let Stevie use the song even if he had wanted to.

You may be right, generally, but unless you’re privy to the inner workings of the band and that particular issue, there’s no way any of us could know that for certain. And my bet would be you’re wrong about Silver Springs.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Mick is always the fall guy and also the first one they all run back to.

Accurate. John doesn't seem to even have a ring to kiss

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by bwboy

You may be right, generally, but unless you’re privy to the inner workings of the band and that particular issue, there’s no way any of us could know that for certain. And my bet would be you’re wrong about Silver Springs.

Except I used to work for an artist who was on two major indie labels (Matador and Merge). He reissues all of the albums, or even parts of albums, where the rights have gone back to him specifically to regain those rights. I’m not just talking out of my ass on this.

The GYOW/SS 45 was probably in print until 1978, given the massive popularity of GYOW. Then, it was reissued on a Back-To-Back Hits 45 w/ Don’t Stop in 1988. It was next reissued in late 1992 on the box, and then in 2002 on the Very Best of Fleetwood Mac, and in 2013 with the Rumours Expanded Edition.

ETA: Just Googled “Fleetwood Mac don’t Stop silver springs back to back hits 45” and it was actually released in 1987. So, it’s never been out of print for ten years since it was released. Again, it was totally BS.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

The GYOW/SS 45 was probably in print until 1978, given the massive popularity of GYOW. Then, it was reissued on a Back-To-Back Hits 45 w/ Don’t Stop in 1988. It was next reissued in late 1992 on the box, and then in 2002 on the Very Best of Fleetwood Mac, and in 2013 with the Rumours Expanded Edition.

There was a Roumours in 04 too.

Stevie finally got it on a solo compilation in 2007. Her The Very Best Of.

[jmn3]

If it was such an important thing for her that she felt the need for the world to hear, why didn’t she insert it into one of the set lists for the umpteen tours she had been doing? Why not push Fleetwood Mac to play it in ‘87 or ‘90? Or the 5 solo tours? I understand the specialness of the original recording and her mother having the rights bla bla, but why was she letting this Uber important baby of hers sit in the shelf collecting dust for nearly 15 years before she made it a debacle over Timespace - an album that included exactly 0 of her Fleetwood Mac songs.

It does all seem to have been BS but it worked out well when it did resurface finally in 1997.

But in an alternative reality…please allow yourselves to consider the dumpster fire that would’ve been a Rock a Little era version of Silver Springs…

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by jmn3

If it was such an important thing for her that she felt the need for the world to hear, why didn’t she insert it into one of the set lists for the umpteen tours she had been doing? Why not push Fleetwood Mac to play it in ‘87 or ‘90? Or the 5 solo tours? I understand the specialness of the original recording and her mother having the rights bla bla, but why was she letting this Uber important baby of hers sit in the shelf collecting dust for nearly 15 years before she made it a debacle over Timespace - an album that included exactly 0 of her Fleetwood Mac songs.

It does all seem to have been BS but it worked out well when it did resurface finally in 1997.

But in an alternative reality…please allow yourselves to consider the dumpster fire that would’ve been a Rock a Little era version of Silver Springs…

She has said, she will only do it with Lindsey on stage. This is why she does not do it solo either. I dont see her singing it to Billy Burnette on stage (1987-1990). With Lindsey back and the whole band back in 1997 it was the perfect opportunity to reintroduce the song to the world.
I dont see what the fuss is. There clearly was an issue for Mick not to release the song to solo Stevie otherwise she would have slapped the song on Timespace.
Mick is one cheap bastard. Stand Back is on Fleetwood Mac's The Chain (25 years) released almost the same time as Timespace yet she cant have Silver Springs? Mick was bitter and cheap. I think the issue was Stevie wanted the original recording. She probably could have re-recorded it but wanted that Fleetwood Mac magic from Rumours on her album. At that point Fleetwood Mac was done and it would have made no difference to let Stevie have the song. After Stevie remaining loyal and doing those 2 tours to get Mick on his feet again, Mick was being petty.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

She has said, she will only do it with Lindsey on stage. This is why she does not do it solo either. I dont see her singing it to Billy Burnette on stage (1987-1990). With Lindsey back and the whole band back in 1997 it was the perfect opportunity to reintroduce the song to the world.
I dont see what the fuss is. There clearly was an issue for Mick not to release the song to solo Stevie otherwise she would have slapped the song on Timespace.
Mick is one cheap bastard. Stand Back is on Fleetwood Mac's The Chain (25 years) released almost the same time as Timespace yet she cant have Silver Springs? Mick was bitter and cheap. I think the issue was Stevie wanted the original recording. She probably could have re-recorded it but wanted that Fleetwood Mac magic from Rumours on her album. At that point Fleetwood Mac was done and it would have made no difference to let Stevie have the song. After Stevie remaining loyal and doing those 2 tours to get Mick on his feet again, Mick was being petty.

Again, Mick didn’t have the authority to let her use the Fleetwood Mac version.

[Villavic]

This is something I wanted to ask but always forgot.
What exactly is Gentoo Music, Inc. ? Who owns it? And what exactly controls?

The Rumours booklet says:
All selections published and controlled by Gentoo Music, Inc. (BMI
Tracks 1, 3 © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Now Sounds Music.
Tracks 2, 9 © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Welsh Witch Music.
Track 4: © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc. Under U.C.C. © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc.
Track 5: © copyright 1976 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Now Sounds Music. Under U.C.C. © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Now Sounds Music
Track 6: © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc.
Track 7: © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc., Now Sounds Music and Welsh Witch Music.
Tracks 8, 10: © copyright 1976 by Gentoo Music, Inc. Under U.C.C. © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc.
Track 11: © copyright 1976 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Welsh Witch Music. Under U.C.C. © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Welsh Witch Music

Easy to find out Lindsey's and Stevie's. Christine's songs are controlled just by Gentoo Music, there's no second entity. So I asume Silver Springs, like Dreams, is controlled by by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Welsh Witch Music. But what exactly do these entities control?
Does this has to do with the SS issue with Timespace?

PS: Couldn't find my old white cd album booklet, but I'm almost sure it just mentions Gentoo Music Inc. It seems Now Sounds Music and Welsh Witch Music didn't exist yet.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Villavic

This is something I wanted to ask but always forgot.
What exactly is Gentoo Music, Inc. ? Who owns it? And what exactly controls?

The Rumours booklet says:
All selections published and controlled by Gentoo Music, Inc. (BMI
Tracks 1, 3 © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Now Sounds Music.
Tracks 2, 9 © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Welsh Witch Music.
Track 4: © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc. Under U.C.C. © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc.
Track 5: © copyright 1976 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Now Sounds Music. Under U.C.C. © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Now Sounds Music
Track 6: © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc.
Track 7: © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc., Now Sounds Music and Welsh Witch Music.
Tracks 8, 10: © copyright 1976 by Gentoo Music, Inc. Under U.C.C. © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc.
Track 11: © copyright 1976 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Welsh Witch Music. Under U.C.C. © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Welsh Witch Music

Easy to find out Lindsey's and Stevie's. Christine's songs are controlled just by Gentoo Music, there's no second entity. So I asume Silver Springs, like Dreams, is controlled by by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Welsh Witch Music. But what exactly do these entities control?
Does this has to do with the SS issue with Timespace?

PS: Couldn't find my old white cd album booklet, but I'm almost sure it just mentions Gentoo Music Inc. It seems Now Sounds Music and Welsh Witch Music didn't exist yet.

Fleetwood Mac’s publishing company from when Mick and John were managing the band. Gentoo is a breed of penguin.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Again, Mick didn’t have the authority to let her use the Fleetwood Mac version.

Unless you were in the management of the band you don't know why according to Stevie that Mick blocked giving Silver Springs to Stevie. Was it something that Mick could control? Based on what Stevie has said, I would say yes.
You think its a made up story? You don't think Stevie wanted Silver Springs on Timespace and was only saying that?

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Unless you were in the management of the band you don't know why according to Stevie that Mick blocked giving Silver Springs to Stevie. Was it something that Mick could control? Based on what Stevie has said, I would say yes.
You think its a made up story? You don't think Stevie wanted Silver Springs on Timespace and was only saying that?

Because, as I said earlier, having worked with someone who was on several labels, the label owns the rights to release the recorded works, unless those works go out of print for over ten years. “Silver Springs” was never out of print for more than ten years.

As for why she made that story up, my speculation is that her management felt Fleetwood Mac was beginning to hurt her brand and she made this up to give a public justification for quitting. She might have asked Mick to intervene with the label and he wouldn’t, but the label already had plans for it anyway. They would have told him no, too.

[bwboy]

I really have a hard time believing that Stevie made up the story about Silver Springs as an excuse to leave FM. She could have said she was mad at Mick because of his book, or that she was focused on her solo career, or tired of doing both. Now, maybe she assumed Mick could have convinced the record label to let her put the song on her CD, and he didn’t even try, that sounds feasible. But no, I don’t think she concocted the story to save face about why she left FM. If anything, that reason makes her look a little petty. Plus, it is totally believable (to me, anyway) that Stevie would get mad over something like that.

The story of Mick not letting Stevie put Silver Springs on her album has always confused me, because it didn’t really make sense how Mick could have been the one who kept her from using if. But so has the story about why Buckingham Nicks has never been rereleased. At various times, Lindsey supposedly refused, then other times Stevie supposedly refused. Who knows the real reasons for both?

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by bwboy

I really have a hard time believing that Stevie made up the story about Silver Springs as an excuse to leave FM. She could have said she was mad at Mick because of his book, or that she was focused on her solo career, or tired of doing both. Now, maybe she assumed Mick could have convinced the record label to let her put the song on her CD, and he didn’t even try, that sounds feasible. But no, I don’t think she concocted the story to save face about why she left FM. If anything, that reason makes her look a little petty. Plus, it is totally believable (to me, anyway) that Stevie would get mad over something like that.

The story of Mick not letting Stevie put Silver Springs on her album has always confused me, because it didn’t really make sense how Mick could have been the one who kept her from using if. But so has the story about why Buckingham Nicks has never been rereleased. At various times, Lindsey supposedly refused, then other times Stevie supposedly refused. Who knows the real reasons for both?

Who knows. But IMHO clearly Mick had the power to release the song to her. There is another Timespace interview that alleges he was avoiding her and had to call Dennis to get him to call her back. When she asked him for the song, he said no.
None of us are aware of the intricate details of such a move. However Stevie was a veteran rock star at that time and knew how the system worked and what she needed to do to accomplish her task. I do think she could have recorded the song her way just like she did with Crystal in 1998. But I think she knew she could never duplicate that magic and wanted the original.
Each band is different the way rights are owned, etc. Unless you were part of Fleetwood Mac, I don't think anyone knows exactly.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Who knows. But IMHO clearly Mick had the power to release the song to her. There is another Timespace interview that alleges he was avoiding her and had to call Dennis to get him to call her back. When she asked him for the song, he said no.
None of us are aware of the intricate details of such a move. However Stevie was a veteran rock star at that time and knew how the system worked and what she needed to do to accomplish her task. I do think she could have recorded the song her way just like she did with Crystal in 1998. But I think she knew she could never duplicate that magic and wanted the original.
Each band is different the way rights are owned, etc. Unless you were part of Fleetwood Mac, I don't think anyone knows exactly.

I know enough from having a friend who's an indie rock legend who has been directly impacted by this about how labels work. Works only go back to the artist if they've been out of print for ten years (OR if the artist can somehow buy them back). When my friend signed to SCAT Records in the '90s, SCAT offered to release all of GbV's first five albums that were self-financed and released only locally. One of the albums in particular became one of his top albums. Now, he can't get those works back and has minimal input on how they're released.

"Silver Springs" has never gone out of print for more than ten years. Again, Mick couldn't have done anything when Warner still owned the rights to release the song. It wasn't something he could release to her.

Now, maybe she wanted the track tapes from an unreleased take. Mick might have been able to give her something like that. However, looking at what happened between Dave Mason and Blue Thumb Records, even that's not entirely clear if Mick could have done that or if the label owned the track tapes.

[David]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Again, Mick couldn't have done anything when Warner still owned the rights to release the song. It wasn't something he could release to her.

All right, already, I believe you. But don’t you think it’s weird that Stevie pilloried Mick over it? I wouldn’t expect Stevie herself to know the legal ins and outs, but all those sycophants around her surely must have told her that Mick was powerless to give her what she wanted. Did no one tell her in 1991 that she was barking up the wrong tree?

Personally, I find the idea of the track on Timespace absolutely revolting. Imagine “Silver Springs” on an album with dreck like “Sometimes It’s a Bitch” or “Love’s a Hard Game to Play”! Ne’er the twain shall meet, Stevie — don’t even think about it.