Let's Show Some love For... "Straight Back"!

[David]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I suspect that at the time Stevie was probably doing her nobless oblige and allowing the other writers to get a larger chunk of the publishing since she had just made a mint off of BD. Plus, whatever didn't get used by FM went directly to her solo career. Mama was at the peak of her powers creatively and commercially, and probably had no time or inclination for band politics. She "tread with gossamer wings."

Pretty image, fit for a fairytale. But according to the David Gans article in Record, Nicks wasn't showing up often enough at the Larrabee sessions to get much more than that recorded.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Phil

Homer,
I really like Can't Go Back and Empire State but I'm not so convinced of his other contributions to Mirage. Christine's songs are generally good but suffer from uninspired production - for example, imagine the demo of Little Lies before Lindsey wove his magic around it - that was a beautifully produced track that made an average song actually sparkle - that's what her tracks needed. The simplicity of Stevie's tracks rang true - they thankfully didn't need any comprehensive production because they certainly didn't get it!

Oh Diane is really the only song of Lindsey's, that I don't care for. I'll never understand the HATE that Empire State gets! It kicks Diane's ASS!!!

You say Stevie's songs didn't get "comprehensive production"? If Gypsy's not the ultimate example of Lindsey's tireless production, then I don't know what is!

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by David

Pretty image, fit for a fairytale. But according to the David Gans article in Record, Nicks wasn't showing up often enough at the Larrabee sessions to get much more than that recorded.

My recollection was that they were all holed up in a rented house in France to get Mirage finished. Still, Stevie could have easily had a terrific fourth song on that album in lieu of one of the fluffer-nutter pieces shat out by Lindsey or Christine, especially since she had newfound leverage within the band to demand things. With a little additional tinkering, "If You Were My Love" and/or "Smile at You" could have been hit singles.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

You say Stevie's songs didn't get "comprehensive production"? If Gypsy's not the ultimate example of Lindsey's tireless production, then I don't know what is!

Werd.

The BD demos for "Gypsy" with the Heartbreakers are painful to hear. Just awful. This is the perfect example of Lindsey's (occasional) ability to polish a turd in the studio.

[Fiver]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

ARGGGHHHH! I love Can't Go Back, and Book of Love, and EVEN Empire State!!!

I'll give you, that Love in Store is fairly bland, even though I like it.......I blame Lindsey's production!!!

Okay, I'm willing to admit, that my love for Mirage, probably has more to do with the fact that I was a kid, when it came out. I LOVED Mirage! I still have vivid memories, of making my friends listen to it!

When I make a FM "MY hits" cd, Can't Go Back, That's Alright, and Book of Love, must ALWAYS be sequential!

Hey, I'm totally with you on this, and I just discovered FM. I went from Rumours to the White Album to Tusk to Mirage.. and so on..

And I freakin' LOVE Mirage.(This includes ALL of Lindsey and Stevie's songs and Christine's. Love in Store sounds great live.) My third favorite FM album after Tusk and Rumours.

Also, thank you, awesome people who posted the LP version of Straight Back and the rehearsal, you rock!

[Phil]

Pretty image, fit for a fairytale. But according to the David Gans article in Record, Nicks wasn't showing up often enough at the Larrabee sessions to get much more than that recorded.

Like HejiraNYC stated, Stevie not only had the songs, but they were actually recorded. The Mirage versions of Smile At You and If You Were My Love sound virtually "good to go" to my ears, particularly the former song. It was my recollection too that the whole band were in France, committed to working as a team after what had been perceived as a fragmented, disunified approach during the Tusk sessions. Stevie may not have contributed majorly to Lindsey's and Christine's songs but that doesn't alter the fact that she had delivered up first rate material that basically pissed all over everything else on offer. Maybe the potential embarrassment of being overshadowed by her natural brilliance, not to mention her rising star at the time, put paid to the inclusion of any additional material?

Oh Diane is really the only song of Lindsey's, that I don't care for. I'll never understand the HATE that Empire State gets! It kicks Diane's ASS!!!

You say Stevie's songs didn't get "comprehensive production"? If Gypsy's not the ultimate example of Lindsey's tireless production, then I don't know what is!

The BD demos for "Gypsy" with the Heartbreakers are painful to hear. Just awful. This is the perfect example of Lindsey's (occasional) ability to polish a turd in the studio.

I realise I'm in the minority here but I don't consider Lindsey's production work on Gypsy to be exceptional - serviceable yes, but nothing out of the ordinary. I for one adore the demo versions with The Heartbreakers and believe the basic structure of the song was intact. Lindsey added a few flourishes here and there, but the real draw of the finished recording is Stevie's superb vocal delivery and the associated harmonies. A great song is a great song and it was there from the beginning.
(For an example of Lindsey's exemplary production skills, look no further than what he did on Thrown Down many years later. In it's demo form, I thought it was a lost cause, but he truly transformed it in the studio. A fine job indeed.)

Stevie's own production and vocal arrangement skills should not be underestimated either. Just because she's rarely been given credit for such doesn't mean she wasn't instrumental in shaping her own songs throughout her career. She always instinctively knew what she wanted in the studio and often coaxed the results out of her collaborators (who often possessed the musical prowess she didn't to achieve her aspirations). I'm aware she's given Lindsey credit over the years for arranging many of her songs but whilst I acknowledge his many talents and great work on a selection of her numbers, I don't think he "polished any of her turds".

[tilthefirefades]

Mirage is my favorite behind Say You Will(), and i love every song on there, except for Oh Diane , but Straight Back is definitely an amazing song. However, it would have been very interesting had Smile At You replaced it. But as previously stated, we would've missed it on Say You Will. But Lindsey's songs on Mirage are impeccable. Still, i believe that his best songs are from Tusk, especially as each listen goes by. But with all that being said, Hold Me is my favorite on the album, followed by Gypsy, Can't Go Back, That's Alright and Straight Back. Amazing album, eccentric production and all

[David]

Originally Posted by Phil

Like HejiraNYC stated, Stevie not only had the songs, but they were actually recorded. The Mirage versions of Smile At You and If You Were My Love sound virtually "good to go" to my ears, particularly the former song.

I'd have preferred either of those, as well, to "Straight Back," but the band, for whatever reason, picked the three we got. The band has never addressed why Nicks has three songs on that album instead of four or five, so we can toss our guesses around.

It was my recollection too that the whole band were in France, committed to working as a team after what had been perceived as a fragmented, disunified approach during the Tusk sessions.

In France for six or eight weeks only, pulling together basic tracks. In talking about that album, the band has always made it sound as if the majority of recording & virtually all the mixing were done in Los Angeles over the course of about 12 months (roughly, June 1981 to June 1982).

Stevie may not have contributed majorly to Lindsey's and Christine's songs but that doesn't alter the fact that she had delivered up first rate material that basically pissed all over everything else on offer.

That's your opinion, Phil. We all have our opinions, but you put forth yours as if it were observable fact, plain to one & all. I don't think much of "Straight Back" as a song & I'm not sure I think that "Gypsy" is terribly good, either. But I love the tracks that Fleetwood Mac builds around them, for which I give all of them & their engineers credit.

Maybe the potential embarrassment of being overshadowed by her natural brilliance, not to mention her rising star at the time, put paid to the inclusion of any additional material?

Maybe. Is there some way we can ask Lindsey, Mick, & Christine whether they were unwilling to include more Nicks material on Mirage because Stevie's natural brilliance cowed them? Maybe Stevie Nicks tried to buy her way out of the band, one of a bunch of rumors at the time. How much leverage did she have within the group at the time? I'm not sure she had any more than any of the others. Her solo success gave her a lot more leverage of her own career, but the idea that she was able to steer Fleetwood Mac this way or that starting in 1982 is pretty silly to me. Why didn't she demand a fourth song on Mirage? She didn't want to tour with the band in 1982, so why did she go at all?

I realise I'm in the minority here but I don't consider Lindsey's production work on Gypsy to be exceptional - serviceable yes, but nothing out of the ordinary.

Based on my observations, you're definitely in a minority on that point, a very small minority (numbering one, to be exact). But these are subjective preference matters, not objectively provable facts.

I for one adore the demo versions with The Heartbreakers and believe the basic structure of the song was intact.

I love the way the Heartbreakers play in general, but those workouts of "Gypsy" are sort of dumb to me -- just fast-paced blues rock without any particular character beyond that & certainly no dynamics, no smooth texture, & no pentatonic hook.

Lindsey added a few flourishes here and there, but the real draw of the finished recording is Stevie's superb vocal delivery and the associated harmonies.

Again we're discussing subjective impressions, but my impression is that Lindsey (in other words, Fleetwood Mac) added more than a "few flourishes here & there" (what flourishes?). The band built an elaborate orchestration into the track that was redolent of the complexity & exuberance of the arrangements & shape of tracks on "Rumours." Incidentally, the vocal harmonies on that track are emblematic of Buckingham's vocal-layering methods, not Nicks's (whose style of vocal layering you can hear on her own albums).

A great song is a great song and it was there from the beginning.

In pop music, a great track is a great song. A great song is also a great song, but it's not a necessity of a great track. More than just about any other contemporary rock band, Fleetwood Mac is proof of that, over & over again.

Stevie's own production and vocal arrangement skills should not be underestimated either.

Maybe I'm one of the people who underestimate her production skills. But I've never heard or seen evidence that she even has any production skills -- not in the sense that I understand production.

Just because she's rarely been given credit for such doesn't mean she wasn't instrumental in shaping her own songs throughout her career.

I guess she was "instrumental" (whatever that means) in shaping some of her songs & not all that instrumental in shaping others. She herself has complained from time to time about not having been allowed (or encouraged) to play a bigger part in shaping her tracks. At times (such as during the recording for Mirage & Tango in the Night), she played a minimal role because she didn't spend enough time with the band in the studio.

She always instinctively knew what she wanted in the studio

She did? Always? Can you fill out that assertion any?

and often coaxed the results out of her collaborators (who often possessed the musical prowess she didn't to achieve her aspirations). I'm aware she's given Lindsey credit over the years for arranging many of her songs but whilst I acknowledge his many talents and great work on a selection of her numbers, I don't think he "polished any of her turds".

I think he (in other words, Fleetwood Mac) polished more than a few of her turds; but also polished more than a few turds by Chris McVie & Lindsey Buckingham.

If Fleetwood Mac had never made any albums but had only published its songs on sheets of paper, would we even be here?

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

My recollection was that they were all holed up in a rented house in France to get Mirage finished. Still, Stevie could have easily had a terrific fourth song on that album in lieu of one of the fluffer-nutter pieces shat out by Lindsey or Christine, especially since she had newfound leverage within the band to demand things. With a little additional tinkering, "If You Were My Love" and/or "Smile at You" could have been hit singles.

I remember reading an article published by the magazine Record after Mirage was released where the band were all moaning about the fact that Stevie wasn't around much. It may be in the archives on this site.

Personally I don't think Smile At You or If You Were My Love would have fit on Mirage, as good as they are. I actually like all of Mirage though, I'm with HomerMcVie on this one.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by David

Incidentally, the vocal harmonies on that track are emblematic of Buckingham's vocal-layering methods, not Nicks's (whose style of vocal layering you can hear on her own albums).

Interesting distinction. Obvious, but something I never thought about really. Stevie's background vocals -- by herself or with Lori, Sharon, etc.-- are frequently great. They sometimes make a song, but they aren't layered. Stacked, but not layered.

Michele

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

I remember reading an article published by the magazine Record after Mirage was released where the band were all moaning about the fact that Stevie wasn't around much. It may be in the archives on this site.

Are you sure it was Mirage? You aren't confusing that scenario with Tango In The Night?

[vivfox]

I LOVE Straight Back. I bought the album the day it was released so I heard the original version first. In 1983 I was friends with a girl who had the cassette and when I heard her version I was majorly impressed. Some of you felt it was overproduced in its second incarnation, but to me they made it more perfect. I love this song today as I first did in 1982.

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Are you sure it was Mirage? You aren't confusing that scenario with Tango In The Night?

The article I remember was definitely about Mirage. I think it started back with Mirage but was even worse during the making of Tango.

Edit: found it, http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.ph...v2&id=184&c=11
I guess they are talking about the tour and the interview but I think it's certainly implied that it's something that happens in the studio too, all the "she gets bored in the studio" talk.

[LukeA]

In re: to "Gypsy"- the "Mirage" recording is great. They maximized/squeezed every ounce of potential out of that song- I mean, going WAY beyond just polishing the turd that is the BD version. Its not the band's fault "Gypsy" flopped as a single.

By that point, Stevie actively considered Fleetwood Mac a nuisance that interfered with her burgeoning solo career. She spent 1982 on auto-pilot, and kept the best material for herself.

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

Edit: found it, http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.ph...v2&id=184&c=11

Wow. What an informative article. It seemed to me that Mick, Lindsey and Christine told Stevie exactly how they felt about her, through the press.