Curly/Rubber Duck/Fleetwood Mac

[chriskisn]

We all know the story, Mayall gives Peter some studio time for his birthday, he takes Mick and John into the studio and cuts three tracks, Curly, Rubber Duck and Fleetwood Mac.

Later Curly and Rubber Duck appear on the Mayall album Crusade, but by they had been re-recorded with Aynsley Dunbar.

Fleetwood Mac turned up on a some FM album, can't remember which one of the top of my head and it isn't so easy to search "Fleetwood Mac" on my iTunes. I think if memory serves me correct that it was "The Original Fleetwood Mac" album or some such?

Anyway, my question is this...did the original versions of Curly and Rubber Duck, which featured Mick Fleetwood, ever get released?

Oh and I've realised that I don't actually have even the Crusade version of Rubber Duck (though I have pretty much everything else Mayall).

[dino]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

We all know the story, Mayall gives Peter some studio time for his birthday, he takes Mick and John into the studio and cuts three tracks, Curly, Rubber Duck and Fleetwood Mac.

Later Curly and Rubber Duck appear on the Mayall album Crusade, but by they had been re-recorded with Aynsley Dunbar.

Fleetwood Mac turned up on a some FM album, can't remember which one of the top of my head and it isn't so easy to search "Fleetwood Mac" on my iTunes. I think if memory serves me correct that it was "The Original Fleetwood Mac" album or some such?

Anyway, my question is this...did the original versions of Curly and Rubber Duck, which featured Mick Fleetwood, ever get released?

Oh and I've realised that I don't actually have even the Crusade version of Rubber Duck (though I have pretty much everything else Mayall).

Curly and Rubber Duck were only included on the 2007 expanded re-release of "Crusade" in 2007, 30 years after the original release. They are not re-recordings, but the original single versions. Mick Fleetwood did not play on that session at all. Peter is backed by McVie and Dunbar. Fleetwood did play on Fleetwood Mac, it's from a later session.

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by dino

Curly and Rubber Duck were only included on the 2007 expanded re-release of "Crusade" in 2007, 30 years after the original release. They are not re-recordings, but the original single versions. Mick Fleetwood did not play on that session at all. Peter is backed by McVie and Dunbar. Fleetwood did play on Fleetwood Mac, it's from a later session.

Hmm...

Well Mick himself said something along the lines of:

"So Peter, John and I went into Decca's studios and recorded two sides of a single, 'Double Trouble' and 'It Hurts Me Too'. We also recorded three instrumentals; two of them, 'Curly' and 'Rubber Duck', were later released as B-sides of the singles. The third instrumental was a three-minute twelve-bar R&B shuffle with a fast tempo tapped on the high hat cymbal, Peter picking nimble blues changes. It was a real Chicago-sounding track, especially when Peter overdubbed a growling harmonica part, in the style of the immortal Little Walter. This third track, Peter later told us, was named after his favorite rhythm section, Fleetwood and McVie. I remember Peter Green writing down the name on the tin can that held the finished tape: 'Fleetwood Mac'."

So that means there WAS an original version of Curly and Rubber Duck that contained Fleetwood.

Apparently...

EDIT: Oh and on that note if Double Trouble and It Hurts Me Too were recorded with Fleetwood, are these two tracks the same (with Fleetwood) as what appears on Mayall's "Looking Back" album. John (wetcamelfood) you are sure to know this one.

[slipkid]

"Double Trouble", and "I Hurts Me Too", are the ONLY John Mayall songs that were recorded with Mick Fleetwood. "Curly", and " Rubber Duck" were with Aynsley Dunbar playing drums. I'm sorry chriskisn, but Mick Fleetwood has deceived you again.

Whatever interview you pulled, Mick must've been snorting his long line of cocaine from Phoenix to Los Angeles.


To correct the uninformed, a certain date in April, 1967.... the original founders (Peter Green, Mick Fleetwood, John McVie) of what was to be Fleetwood Mac recorded a jam named "Fleetwood Mac", and a slow blues named "First Train Home". Search for them on Youtube.com. Your heads will explode.

[dino]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

Hmm...

Well Mick himself said something along the lines of:

"So Peter, John and I went into Decca's studios and recorded two sides of a single, 'Double Trouble' and 'It Hurts Me Too'. We also recorded three instrumentals; two of them, 'Curly' and 'Rubber Duck', were later released as B-sides of the singles. The third instrumental was a three-minute twelve-bar R&B shuffle with a fast tempo tapped on the high hat cymbal, Peter picking nimble blues changes. It was a real Chicago-sounding track, especially when Peter overdubbed a growling harmonica part, in the style of the immortal Little Walter. This third track, Peter later told us, was named after his favorite rhythm section, Fleetwood and McVie. I remember Peter Green writing down the name on the tin can that held the finished tape: 'Fleetwood Mac'."

So that means there WAS an original version of Curly and Rubber Duck that contained Fleetwood.

Apparently...

EDIT: Oh and on that note if Double Trouble and It Hurts Me Too were recorded with Fleetwood, are these two tracks the same (with Fleetwood) as what appears on Mayall's "Looking Back" album. John (wetcamelfood) you are sure to know this one.

"Hmmmm?" OK, thanks for the appreciation
You need to stop reading **** biographies with coke-induced "memories" . Double Trouble/It Hurts Me Too is on "Looking Back" and also the expanded issue of "Crusade". Now you can go ahead and ask John about it...

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by dino

"Hmmmm?" OK, thanks for the appreciation
You need to stop reading **** biographies with coke-induced "memories" . Double Trouble/It Hurts Me Too is on "Looking Back" and also the expanded issue of "Crusade". Now you can go ahead and ask John about it...

Sorry I'm not doubting you...that is why I said "apparently" at the end of my post...we know Mick is questionable on some things...

I also know that Aynsley Dunbar is the drummer on those two tracks that appear later. What I don't know though is whether Aynsley came back to the Bluesbreakers after Fleetwood left, or were they, like you say, recorded earlier meaning Fleetwood would have no part in their recording.

However does that mean that the only song that they recorded in the studio was part of Peter's birthday present was 'Fleetwood Mac'.

Also I know that Double Trouble and It Hurts Me Too are on Looking Back, I have the album. However I was asking if the versions that appear on Looking Back were re-recorded without Fleetwood?

As for asking John, he has done such a good job with the discography on the Penguin I was sure he would know something as obscure, he usually does.

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by slipkid

Whatever interview you pulled, Mick must've been snorting his long line of cocaine from Phoenix to Los Angeles.

Mick's book.

Edit: and Brunning's book...

[dino]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

Sorry I'm not doubting you...that is why I said "apparently" at the end of my post...we know Mick is questionable on some things...

I also know that Aynsley Dunbar is the drummer on those two tracks that appear later. What I don't know though is whether Aynsley came back to the Bluesbreakers after Fleetwood left, or were they, like you say, recorded earlier meaning Fleetwood would have no part in their recording.

However does that mean that the only song that they recorded in the studio was part of Peter's birthday present was 'Fleetwood Mac'.

Also I know that Double Trouble and It Hurts Me Too are on Looking Back, I have the album. However I was asking if the versions that appear on Looking Back were re-recorded without Fleetwood?

As for asking John, he has done such a good job with the discography on the Penguin I was sure he would know something as obscure, he usually does.

No offence taken.
The history seems quite simple. All these tracks are the same on any record (looking Back, The Original Mac, Crusade re-release) ; if any "re-recordings" took place they have never surfaced.

Green used his "birthday present" sessions (16/02/67) to record these tracks with John McVie and Aynsley Dunbar :

CURLY
RUBBER DUCK
GREENY
MISSING YOU

Then Dunbar quit, and Mick Fleetwood was in for at least a few weeks during spring 1967.
The new Bluesbreakers line-up (Mick, Peter, Mayall and McVie) recorded one session on April 19, 1967:

DOUBLE TROUBLE
IT HURTS ME TOO

FLEETWOOD MAC
FIRST TRAIN HOME
LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY
NO PLACE TO GO

The last 4 items are really the first Fleetwood Mac recordings, and the last 2 tracks appear on the first ("Dogs and Dustbin") album.

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by dino

No offence taken.
The history seems quite simple. All these tracks are the same on any record (looking Back, The Original Mac, Crusade re-release) ; if any "re-recordings" took place they have never surfaced.

Green used his "birthday present" sessions (16/02/67) to record these tracks with John McVie and Aynsley Dunbar :

CURLY
RUBBER DUCK
GREENY
MISSING YOU

Then Dunbar quit, and Mick Fleetwood was in for at least a few weeks during spring 1967.
The new Bluesbreakers line-up (Mick, Peter, Mayall and McVie) recorded one session on April 19, 1967:

DOUBLE TROUBLE
IT HURTS ME TOO
FLEETWOOD MAC
FIRST TRAIN HOME
LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY
NO PLACE TO GO

The last 4 items are really the first Fleetwood Mac recordings, and the last 2 tracks appear on the first ("Dogs and Dustbin") album.

Now here is another question (I'll throw the spanner in the works again). Why was it a "birthday present" (and I've even heard Mayall say this) when Peter's birthday is in October. Double Trouble and It hurts me too were released if memory serves me right in June? Mick was in the band in April and out after six weeks.

So does this mean

a) Mayall's present in February which included Dunbar was a very late present
b) Mick/Mayall/etc have been lying about this for forty plus years (because it makes a very good romanticised story).
c) Could it have almost been Dunbar Mac?

Either way, whether we assume re-recordings were done or not (as they weren't released were they until the Crusade and Hard road re-issues which I don't have and now will have to get), neither session could possibly have been a birthday present.

Oh and another thought, he only had an hour in the studio as a birthday present but he managed to record at least four tracks. That is good going by any measure.

[dino]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

Could it have almost been Dunbar Mac?

No, Greeny disliked his busy style; that's why he brought in Mick.

Originally Posted by chriskisn

Either way, whether we assume re-recordings were done or not (as they weren't released were they until the Crusade and Hard road re-issues which I don't have and now will have to get), neither session could possibly have been a birthday present.

Oh and another thought, he only had an hour in the studio as a birthday present but he managed to record at least four tracks. That is good going by any measure.

Yes, something is "fishy" with either the recording date, or more probable, the participants' memories.

Once again, there are no unreleased studio tracks on the Crusade and Hard Road re-releases - all the Mayall/Mac tracks were originally released on compilations and singles in 1967-71.

And good work ethic, yes. That's how they did it in the 60's...

[wetcamelfood]

Sorry just seeing this now, yes Chris, these guys are right. As little stock as we can put into Mick's accounts I think we should put just as little stock in the "birthday" thing as well. Obviously I'm just speculating here but I kind of get the feeling the "present" was a more long winded story so just to keep it short with the press they just decided to say to them it was a birthday present even though the dates don't match up/would've been either very early or late depending on which year's birthday they were talking about. It's kind of funny no press people ever picked up on this or if they did, never chose to mention the discrepancy in their writings.

John

[slipkid]

Originally Posted by wetcamelfood

Sorry just seeing this now, yes Chris, these guys are right. As little stock as we can put into Mick's accounts I think we should put just as little stock in the "birthday" thing as well. Obviously I'm just speculating here but I kind of get the feeling the "present" was a more long winded story so just to keep it short with the press they just decided to say to them it was a birthday present even though the dates don't match up/would've been either very early or late depending on which year's birthday they were talking about. It's kind of funny no press people ever picked up on this or if they did, never chose to mention the discrepancy in their writings.

John

When Mick Fleetwood felt that Peter Green didn't have Fleetwood Mac in his best interests, he became the "Den Mother/PR" man for the band.

This explains:

1) "Munich 3/70" "Peter Green played crazy german progressive rock (Krautrock) in a basement on acid, so he's now "crazy"." TRUTH: Peter Green wanted to leave FM as early as late 1969. The late Gary Moore claims Peter Green wanted out in 1969.


2)Mick Fleetwood completely rejects "The End of the Game" as a Jimi Hendrix redux. If Mick Fleetwood actually listened to the album, it has more in common with Miles Davis' "Bitches Brew", than a later Hendrix album. He was hurt that Peter Green left, and lashed out!


3)Mick Fleetwood was scared sh*tless that the 1970 Boston Tea Party tapes would be released while the "Rumours" band existed. It wasn't until Lindsay Buckingham left FM in 1985 that the 1970 Boston Tea Party tapes were released officially.

4)If Mick Fleetwood admits #3, I know the truth. Fleetwood Mac had an 2 LP album that bests' the Allmans' "Live at the Fillmore East", recorded one year earlier. The fact that Peter Green left 5/70 prevented the release of this great live album. If Peter Green only stayed on for another six months, there is no Bob Welch.