2016 Presidential Election (#2)

[Macfanforever]

Heres some funny vids so far.Note to mods .Please remove if inappropriate.

[Macfanforever]

With all the bull crap going on with the Dem and Rep party candidates .If I dont make up my mind who I'm going to vote for by November.I end up voting 3rd party Independent ,Libertarian party. .Atlease I can say I voted.I've done it before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ndidates,_2016

John McAfee of McAfee anti virus software fame is running and a host of others.To bad Peter Norton from Norton Anti Virus was not running he and McAfee would make good running mates LOL.........................................................................

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by Wdm6789

Gun control is a loaded topic.

Stop it now.

[FuzzyPlum]

Originally Posted by olive

my observation is trump will win there are too many poorly educated ( trump's words not mine ) crazed 'murican who do not understand politics and and will vote for his based on him feeding into their fears and ignorance , playing to their prejudices of anyone non hetro , non white and not born in this country .


the only thing that will save us from this is the educated republican who votes for Hilary

It sounds a bit like a similar situation here in the UK at the moment;
We will soon be having a referendum on whether to remain in the European Union. It seems like a very large proportion of people (though not all) that want to exit the EU are of fairly low education and can't really give a decent, coherent reason as to why we should leave. 'Cos Europe's bad innit? We should 'ave our freedom innit? We are getting too many foreigners coming here stealing all our jobs innit?''
The 'exit' campaigners have used this to their advantage- their basic arguments for leaving the EU are puerile and appeal to the vacuous.
Sadly, the pro-EU lobby are countering this with their own inane arguments. An intelligent debate about the pros/cons of EU membership/exit would be much welcomed. Unfortunately it's descended into playground fighting and name calling.

[becca]

I think all three are definitely not to my personal liking (as a non-voting Canadian). Is there any chance of a third more centrist party down there? Bernie is extreme far left, Hillary and Trump both pander to fringe/fanatic types, Hillary has lots of strings on her too from a past of gaining 'qualifications'... under duress I'd pick her though by the cv/resume on paper, but it'd be kind of like hiring someone you know you can't get along with for a job opening where only weirdos have applied.

Hillary just blew it with the guns comments I think, we'll see. Americans have chosen freedom and that includes arming themselves, nobody is ever going to dial that back very much and succeed. Trump was unintentionally funny though when he was pandering at the NRA thing about his sons having so many guns it 'scares even him'. What a doof!

[SisterNightroad]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

It sounds a bit like a similar situation here in the UK at the moment;
We will soon be having a referendum on whether to remain in the European Union. It seems like a very large proportion of people (though not all) that want to exit the EU are of fairly low education and can't really give a decent, coherent reason as to why we should leave. 'Cos Europe's bad innit? We should 'ave our freedom innit? We are getting too many foreigners coming here stealing all our jobs innit?''
The 'exit' campaigners have used this to their advantage- their basic arguments for leaving the EU are puerile and appeal to the vacuous.
Sadly, the pro-EU lobby are countering this with their own inane arguments. An intelligent debate about the pros/cons of EU membership/exit would be much welcomed. Unfortunately it's descended into playground fighting and name calling.

Periodically the Northern League in Italy proposes to exit the EU too. It's the most extremist party that is extremely racist towards not only European and non-European immigrants but also most of the mid-south Italy as well. They want to separate North and South Italy and they're mostly old and uneducated or very impressionable people.
They still can't understand that Mafia isn't only in Naples, it's everywhere.

[welcomechris]

Originally Posted by Macfanforever

With all the bull crap going on with the Dem and Rep party candidates .If I dont make up my mind who I'm going to vote for by November.I end up voting 3rd party Independent ,Libertarian party. .Atlease I can say I voted.I've done it before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ndidates,_2016

John McAfee of McAfee anti virus software fame is running and a host of others.To bad Peter Norton from Norton Anti Virus was not running he and McAfee would make good running mates LOL.........................................................................

Lol didn't McAfee get arrested a few years ago

[Macfanforever]

Originally Posted by welcomechris

Lol didn't McAfee get arrested a few years ago

He had some issues according to his Wiki page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McAfee#Legal_issues

[Macfanforever]

Anti Trump protesters went nuts in New Mexico at a Trump rally.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/25/us...buquerque.html

Feel sorry for the horses.

[Wdm6789]

Originally Posted by Macfanforever

Anti Trump protesters went nuts in New Mexico at a Trump rally.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/25/us...buquerque.html

Feel sorry for the horses.

Anti Trump protestors are crazy. I have been youtubing protestors and supporters for all three candidates. The ones protesting Trump are actually the most close minded, hateful, and violent. Of course, Trump has some crazy supporters, but the Bernie supporters seem to be much worse. Hillary doesn't seem to have the following Trump and Bernie have, which furthers my suspicions of corruption because Hillary is crushing Bernie in the primaries.

[Macfanforever]

Originally Posted by Wdm6789

Anti Trump protestors are crazy. I have been youtubing protestors and supporters for all three candidates. The ones protesting Trump are actually the most close minded, hateful, and violent. Of course, Trump has some crazy supporters, but the Bernie supporters seem to be much worse. Hillary doesn't seem to have the following Trump and Bernie have, which furthers my suspicions of corruption because Hillary is crushing Bernie in the primaries.

Yes .Me too. I've been following the protesters on YT the last couple of months. .Yes It seems like Bernie's fans are the worse.More likely the Hillary supporters are keeping low until Bernie is out of the race .They can go after and bust Mr Trump's nuts when the crap hits the fan when its only two of them.At that point who knows were Bernie's supporters will move over to Hillary or go 3 party or dont vote at all .I know they wont move over to support Mr Trump after fighting over him.I was at the Hartford Trump rally a month ago to see how it was and both side were behaving and no arrests were made .Most of what was happening there was alittle heated discussions .A couple of people on bull horns saying their piece.There was no trampling on police cars and stoning police horses.It was very interesting going to see a part of history in action and I had fun going there.

[jwd]

You left someone off your list of choices.


https://garyjohnson2016.com/

[SisterNightroad]

From the Italian Huffington Post:

Why comparing Donald Trump to Silvio Berlusconi is wrong

Italy observing the rise of Donald Trump has often the feeling of watching an old movie, so strong is the impression of déjà-vu. A lot, in this matter, recalls the time when Silvio Berlusconi - who also came from the estate and show business world, was obsessed by the effect his hair had over others - appeared on the political scene and has troddened it like no one had ever done before, with cunning and grotesque ways, fascinating and upsetting the audience in equal measure with its simplifications and exaggerations.

The parallels between The Donald and The Cavaliere (=Knight) are so numerous that American journalists are regularly turning to Italian media to learn more about the phenomenon and to try to understand its meaning. Usually they ask Beppe Severgnini of Corriere della Sera, a former correspondent of The Economist - who knows English. Severgnini is a brilliant interpreter of Italian-ness, which normally, in his columns and in his books explains why Italians are as they are.

A recipe against demagoguery and populism

But when they call Americans, Severgnini does not just make the exegesis of Berlusconi, the original: he also advises US public opinion who cares about the problem what should absolutely be done to prevent the copy, Donald Trump, from really rising to power. The list of rules dictated by Severgnini sounds like a recipe against all the demagogues and populists of our times, applicable almost anywhere:

• Do the opposite of what we did in Italy.
• Do not demonize Trump as we have demonized Berlusconi; Do not obsess or be hypnotized by him, for you'd only reinforce him.
• Resist the temptation, even stronger, to consider him a comic character.
• Do not take him too seriously even when he says the unsayable: it is only to attract attention.
• Rather force him to put in practice all the objectives that he lists. In short, force him to be boring.
• Do not think that his populism will fall on deaf ears and he will not be elected.

Italy shows that usually voters are in favor of new policy proposals, to new versions of the story, without taboos, presented in a dramatic and politically incorrect ways. That was the case twenty years ago and now the temptation is strong again.

Even on the level of style the two are very similar. Like Berlusconi, Trump flaunts his business achievements. He sells himself as a maker of dreams, as a living proof of the fact that wishing and working hard anyone can be able to have a lot of money, beautiful cars, beautiful houses and beautiful women. Of course these are hoaxes, neither of them is made by himself in the classical sense, but this did not affect their version of the tale, and for many their wealth is proof enough.

Italians also, at the time, said "Berlusconi has so much money that he will not steal them to us." It is true that, as billionaires, both Berlusconi and Trump are moving to the upper floors of the establishment. But they also pose as outsiders and champions of the common people. They urge the base instincts and feed the desires for revenge that in another scenario could turn against them. But for both the consistency of their ideas it does not matter that much: the image is more important.

These, therefore, are the similarities between the two. They may be impressive and stunning, but the differences are even more significant.

Trump had to win a party during the primary elections. Berlusconi has made one of his own

In 1993, when Berlusconi decided to "take the field", the first Italian Republic was in ruins. The politicians who supported him, helping him to build his media empire, had been overthrown by Tangentopoli. To protect his business and himself by the judiciary, for Berlusconi almost nothing was left but going to Rome to obtain the political immunity.

But to rise to power he did not need to win a party like Trump had to in the Republican Primaries and against the whole leadership of the Grand Old Party. Berlusconi simply builta new party of his own, stealing forever the Italians' battle cry that has become its name, Forza Italia (=Go Italy).

Seen the emptiness and the political crisis of then, it was easy to bring together the Right around him. But he had an easy game especially because, as well as daily and weekly newspapers, he was also the owner of three national television stations that were the platform to his propaganda, entering into people's minds and acting as jackhammers.

Nothing to laugh about

Trump does not have a similar power in the media. Okay, in the past he appeared in a television program in which he played himself, proving in that circumstance to have appreciable qualities of showmanship. But it was only a show, in fact. Instead Berlusconi was the show: it was him, always and everywhere, the means, the director, the message and at the same time the messenger. With his broadcasting stations he could mold to his liking and convenience the public. And that whirlpool pulled back into the abyss all the other channels, including Rai (=Italian Radiotelevision).

Three times Berlusconi has managed to become Prime Minister. He ruled a total of nine years. Italians continued to vote for him - and it still amazes - even when he had already given proof enough that he had failed as a leader, as "chairman and managing director of Italy." If Trump became president of the United States he would have much more power than Berlusconi has ever had: he would have decision-making power to press the fatal "red button". In other words, the world could even laugh at Italy under Berlusconi, but under Trump noone would feel like laughing about the United States.

Neither of them cares a lot about the virtues of man respectable, indeed

Recently someone asked Berlusconi what he thought of the fact that Trump has been dubbed "the Berlusconi of America". He cleverly replied that everyone is free to make the comparisons they prefer. "To me," he added, "Trump looks rather like a hybrid between Salvini and Grillo." A phrase without the intention to please. As for Trump, however, it seems that Berlusconi sits well with him. "He's very nice," he once said: "He is a decent man." Neither of them cares a lot about the virtues of the respectable man, indeed: sometimes you have the impression that the lack of respectability is for them a useful political weapon.

The most picturesque advice Beppe Severgnini offered to the Americans goes back to last fall and came out in The New York Times, when it still seemed possible to prevent the rise of Trump: "Do not buy anything from him," he urged to those who were attracted by his rhetoric. "Behave as if you were in front of a talkative salesman cars: make him a lot of questions, and expect concrete answers. Open the hood, check the brakes. And absolutely do not let yourselves be convinced to do a test drive. Trump would be able to trigger the locks of the doors, up to speed and crashing the car into the nearest wall. "

[Macfanforever]

Originally Posted by SisterNightroad

From the Italian Huffington Post:

Why comparing Donald Trump to Silvio Berlusconi is wrong

Italy observing the rise of Donald Trump has often the feeling of watching an old movie, so strong is the impression of déjà-vu. A lot, in this matter, recalls the time when Silvio Berlusconi - who also came from the estate and show business world, was obsessed by the effect his hair had over others - appeared on the political scene and has troddened it like no one had ever done before, with cunning and grotesque ways, fascinating and upsetting the audience in equal measure with its simplifications and exaggerations.

The parallels between The Donald and The Cavaliere (=Knight) are so numerous that American journalists are regularly turning to Italian media to learn more about the phenomenon and to try to understand its meaning. Usually they ask Beppe Severgnini of Corriere della Sera, a former correspondent of The Economist - who knows English. Severgnini is a brilliant interpreter of Italian-ness, which normally, in his columns and in his books explains why Italians are as they are.

A recipe against demagoguery and populism

But when they call Americans, Severgnini does not just make the exegesis of Berlusconi, the original: he also advises US public opinion who cares about the problem what should absolutely be done to prevent the copy, Donald Trump, from really rising to power. The list of rules dictated by Severgnini sounds like a recipe against all the demagogues and populists of our times, applicable almost anywhere:

• Do the opposite of what we did in Italy.
• Do not demonize Trump as we have demonized Berlusconi; Do not obsess or be hypnotized by him, for you'd only reinforce him.
• Resist the temptation, even stronger, to consider him a comic character.
• Do not take him too seriously even when he says the unsayable: it is only to attract attention.
• Rather force him to put in practice all the objectives that he lists. In short, force him to be boring.
• Do not think that his populism will fall on deaf ears and he will not be elected.

Italy shows that usually voters are in favor of new policy proposals, to new versions of the story, without taboos, presented in a dramatic and politically incorrect ways. That was the case twenty years ago and now the temptation is strong again.

Even on the level of style the two are very similar. Like Berlusconi, Trump flaunts his business achievements. He sells himself as a maker of dreams, as a living proof of the fact that wishing and working hard anyone can be able to have a lot of money, beautiful cars, beautiful houses and beautiful women. Of course these are hoaxes, neither of them is made by himself in the classical sense, but this did not affect their version of the tale, and for many their wealth is proof enough.

Italians also, at the time, said "Berlusconi has so much money that he will not steal them to us." It is true that, as billionaires, both Berlusconi and Trump are moving to the upper floors of the establishment. But they also pose as outsiders and champions of the common people. They urge the base instincts and feed the desires for revenge that in another scenario could turn against them. But for both the consistency of their ideas it does not matter that much: the image is more important.

These, therefore, are the similarities between the two. They may be impressive and stunning, but the differences are even more significant.

Trump had to win a party during the primary elections. Berlusconi has made one of his own

In 1993, when Berlusconi decided to "take the field", the first Italian Republic was in ruins. The politicians who supported him, helping him to build his media empire, had been overthrown by Tangentopoli. To protect his business and himself by the judiciary, for Berlusconi almost nothing was left but going to Rome to obtain the political immunity.

But to rise to power he did not need to win a party like Trump had to in the Republican Primaries and against the whole leadership of the Grand Old Party. Berlusconi simply builta new party of his own, stealing forever the Italians' battle cry that has become its name, Forza Italia (=Go Italy).

Seen the emptiness and the political crisis of then, it was easy to bring together the Right around him. But he had an easy game especially because, as well as daily and weekly newspapers, he was also the owner of three national television stations that were the platform to his propaganda, entering into people's minds and acting as jackhammers.

Nothing to laugh about

Trump does not have a similar power in the media. Okay, in the past he appeared in a television program in which he played himself, proving in that circumstance to have appreciable qualities of showmanship. But it was only a show, in fact. Instead Berlusconi was the show: it was him, always and everywhere, the means, the director, the message and at the same time the messenger. With his broadcasting stations he could mold to his liking and convenience the public. And that whirlpool pulled back into the abyss all the other channels, including Rai (=Italian Radiotelevision).

Three times Berlusconi has managed to become Prime Minister. He ruled a total of nine years. Italians continued to vote for him - and it still amazes - even when he had already given proof enough that he had failed as a leader, as "chairman and managing director of Italy." If Trump became president of the United States he would have much more power than Berlusconi has ever had: he would have decision-making power to press the fatal "red button". In other words, the world could even laugh at Italy under Berlusconi, but under Trump noone would feel like laughing about the United States.

Neither of them cares a lot about the virtues of man respectable, indeed

Recently someone asked Berlusconi what he thought of the fact that Trump has been dubbed "the Berlusconi of America". He cleverly replied that everyone is free to make the comparisons they prefer. "To me," he added, "Trump looks rather like a hybrid between Salvini and Grillo." A phrase without the intention to please. As for Trump, however, it seems that Berlusconi sits well with him. "He's very nice," he once said: "He is a decent man." Neither of them cares a lot about the virtues of the respectable man, indeed: sometimes you have the impression that the lack of respectability is for them a useful political weapon.

The most picturesque advice Beppe Severgnini offered to the Americans goes back to last fall and came out in The New York Times, when it still seemed possible to prevent the rise of Trump: "Do not buy anything from him," he urged to those who were attracted by his rhetoric. "Behave as if you were in front of a talkative salesman cars: make him a lot of questions, and expect concrete answers. Open the hood, check the brakes. And absolutely do not let yourselves be convinced to do a test drive. Trump would be able to trigger the locks of the doors, up to speed and crashing the car into the nearest wall. "

Trouble everywhere.Very interesting read .Thanks.I'm part Italian since my late dad was full Italian and his dad was from Italy.I cant remember which part of Italy he was from .I have to ask my Aunt or Uncle where he was from .I just heard on the radio the Venezuela is petitioning to get their president removed from power.Its a big mess down there.Mr Trump has another speech tonight lets see if it goes out of hand.I dont mind the protesting.Just keep it civil and the violence out.What is scary is my late dad was the same way as Mr Trump is with "Say It like it is". He probably would support Mr Trump.

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by Wdm6789

protestors are crazy...

I'd bet that most protesters don't know
what they're protesting.