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  #46  
Old 04-02-2019, 05:56 AM
mitzo mitzo is offline
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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
Stevie was a poet. Her talent was creating porous words and phrases that could be woven around your emotions and her voice could express those emotions. Even when she didn’t write the words, her voice made them hers and lent meaning where none would otherwise exist.

As Lindsey said, she had an innate sense of rhythm. She knew when to start and when to stop. It’s not a small talent. It’s a great one and it is a genius of sorts.

But she’s always been a self-centered, ditzy, liar and the bad traits grew and overshadowed any good ones she once possessed. At the same time, her talent ebbed. Perhaps, the two things are connected. I don’t say her abilities are completely gone. I thought the IYD album was largely a success and maybe she’s capable of more. But today, I look at her and see the same menace that devoured Dorian Gray on the inside, while his exterior remained unmarred.
Agreed, I have always seen her as a self absorbed ditz with borderline personality, it is even in the song lyrics. The giant ego and the ultimate firing of Buckingham actually are no surprise to me. But it doesn't hit me in the feels like it does many here.
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  #47  
Old 04-02-2019, 08:17 AM
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SteveMacD SteveMacD is offline
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Agreed, I have always seen her as a self absorbed ditz with borderline personality
Or, as she calls it, a Gemini.
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  #48  
Old 04-02-2019, 08:52 AM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Agreed, I have always seen her as a self absorbed ditz with borderline personality, it is even in the song lyrics. The giant ego and the ultimate firing of Buckingham actually are no surprise to me. But it doesn't hit me in the feels like it does many here.
What hits me is the way it was done. And maybe that's the self absorbed part that you mention. But, not to even acknowledge his calls, emails, or even olive branch to make things right.... Just cruel. Made my skin crawl a bit.
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  #49  
Old 04-02-2019, 09:09 AM
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What hits me is the way it was done. And maybe that's the self absorbed part that you mention. But, not to even acknowledge his calls, emails, or even olive branch to make things right.... Just cruel. Made my skin crawl a bit.
That was I was always been saying:

1. You want to kick him out of the band because you can't stand working with him anymore? Fine. But if you think what you're doing is correct, then why the lies at the beginning? Why the cold shoulder? Why ignoring his calls, his emails? I think after all these years, he deserves an explanation. Or they think he doesn't?

2. And once everything is out in the open, why the constant need to bash him, to say things like "we're happier now that we have ever been", "my band is still together"? After all these years, you already got rid of him. So stop twisting the knife while he's already on the floor trying to stand up again.

I honestly don't care if her fans think the band's behavior toward Lindsey is "what many bands do" because that's not true. Trying to diminish what they have done and trying to sweep everything under the rug won't work. Their behavior towards Lindsey, aside from the firing, is despicable.

After seeing Def Leppard's speech last Friday at the RRHOF, talking about their brotherhood and their friendship with Brian May, after seeing Keith Richards' comments about Mick Jagger's health condition, you can't help but feel pity for what Fleetwood Mac has become.
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Lindsey Buckingham, May 11, 2018.
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  #50  
Old 04-02-2019, 09:39 AM
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That was I was always been saying:

1. You want to kick him out of the band because you can't stand working with him anymore? Fine. But if you think what you're doing is correct, then why the lies at the beginning? Why the cold shoulder? Why ignoring his calls, his emails? I think after all these years, he deserves an explanation. Or they think he doesn't?

2. And once everything is out in the open, why the constant need to bash him, to say things like "we're happier now that we have ever been", "my band is still together"? After all these years, you already got rid of him. So stop twisting the knife while he's already on the floor trying to stand up again.

I honestly don't care if her fans think the band's behavior toward Lindsey is "what many bands do" because that's not true. Trying to diminish what they have done and trying to sweep everything under the rug won't work. Their behavior towards Lindsey, aside from the firing, is despicable.

After seeing Def Leppard's speech last Friday at the RRHOF, talking about their brotherhood and their friendship with Brian May, after seeing Keith Richards' comments about Mick Jagger's health condition, you can't help but feel pity for what Fleetwood Mac has become.
Exactly. Just because some bands treat each other poorly doesn't make it right. There are plenty of other bands can treat each other with respect.

It's like friendships and relationships. Some people treat each other poorly, and some don't. But just because lot's of people treat others poorly, it doesn't mean that that behavior is ok. I sometimes wonder if the people who keep chiming in about "get over it" or "it's people we don't know so who cares" or "doesn't impact me so I don't give a rats ass," do these people think it's ok to treat others in their lives this way? Because they certainly want to give Stevie, et al., a pass on this horrendous behavior. Behavior which keeps sinking to new lows. And as a previous MEGA fan, I can't get away from my disappointment in them. As I would be if they had behaved this way to anyone in the band, not just Lindsey.
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  #51  
Old 04-02-2019, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mitzo View Post
Agreed, I have always seen her as a self absorbed ditz with borderline personality, it is even in the song lyrics. The giant ego and the ultimate firing of Buckingham actually are no surprise to me.
Some people saw those qualities all along. Was it Stephen Holden or another Rolling Stone critic who, back in 1981 reviewing Bella Donna, asked, "How can somebody so hip also be so incredibly silly?"? And Robert Hilburn, reviewing the Mac's spectacularly good concert in Irvine CA in 1982 for the L.A. Times, said of Stevie: "She has even shed some (though far from all) of the narcissistic aura that has made her something of a caricature in rock." My mind fills in with all these characterizations of Stevie—remember John Swenson's Rolling Stone review of the band's Madison Square Garden stop in 1977? Something about Stevie's stage business being literary in a bad way, but adding that "she gets away with her devices more often than not" because she "has undeniable charisma."

And then there's her singing voice—she picked up bits and pieces of style from Tom Petty, Brenda Lee, Jackie Wilson, and maybe even Ray Charles, but most of it is really and truly her own and sounds like no one else. That's her genius, in my opinion, that and her onstage (and offstage) character with its otherworldly traits, a combination of a Greek nymph or demiurge and a decadent nineteenth-century writer. But that appeal has always been elusive and youth-bound; it got sillier and more awkward as she grew older. For several years now, it's felt desperate. That's why newspaper writers have many of them likened her to Norma Desmond or Miss Havisham or even Sylvia Browne or some other drifting psychic mess. She's being feted these days solely because she's quaint and she has longevity. All these younger musicians who adore her never mention a recent song. None of her recent songs have had any impression on people or on the culture (although that's nothing to blame her for because it's true of millions of old stars like her).
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  #52  
Old 04-02-2019, 01:34 PM
BombaySapphire3 BombaySapphire3 is offline
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None of her recent songs have had any impression on people or on the culture (although that's nothing to blame her for because it's true of millions of old stars like her).
Her period of magical songwriting where everything seemed to come together ended sometime in the mid 1980s.. there have been some sporadic moments since then. Her work during her prime and most especially with Fleetwood Mac was sublime and unrepeatable by her or anyone else since then IMHO. It is that handful of songs that keeps the younger artists coming back year after year.
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  #53  
Old 04-02-2019, 01:50 PM
iamnotafraid iamnotafraid is offline
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And then there's her singing voice—she picked up bits and pieces of style from Tom Petty, Brenda Lee, Jackie Wilson, and maybe even Ray Charles, but most of it is really and truly her own and sounds like no one else. That's her genius...
Care to elaborate David? I can't see or hear anything
resembling her to Ray, Jackie or little miss dynamite.
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  #54  
Old 04-02-2019, 02:20 PM
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aleuzzi aleuzzi is offline
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She's being feted these days solely because she's quaint and she has longevity. All these younger musicians who adore her never mention a recent song. None of her recent songs have had any impression on people or on the culture (although that's nothing to blame her for because it's true of millions of old stars like her).
This is true and unfortunate, since some of the material from her last three solo albums is really good. And I'm someone who thinks IN YOUR DREAMS was an excellent return to the studio.
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  #55  
Old 04-02-2019, 03:01 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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This is true and unfortunate, since some of the material from her last three solo albums is really good. And I'm someone who thinks IN YOUR DREAMS was an excellent return to the studio.
Excluding Cheaper Than Free, which was beyond horrid, I think IYD was quite commendable.
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  #56  
Old 04-02-2019, 03:19 PM
luminol luminol is offline
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Some people saw those qualities all along. Was it Stephen Holden or another Rolling Stone critic who, back in 1981 reviewing Bella Donna, asked, "How can somebody so hip also be so incredibly silly?"? And Robert Hilburn, reviewing the Mac's spectacularly good concert in Irvine CA in 1982 for the L.A. Times, said of Stevie: "She has even shed some (though far from all) of the narcissistic aura that has made her something of a caricature in rock." My mind fills in with all these characterizations of Stevie—remember John Swenson's Rolling Stone review of the band's Madison Square Garden stop in 1977? Something about Stevie's stage business being literary in a bad way, but adding that "she gets away with her devices more often than not" because she "has undeniable charisma."

....That's her genius, in my opinion, that and her onstage (and offstage) character with its otherworldly traits, a combination of a Greek nymph or demiurge and a decadent nineteenth-century writer. But that appeal has always been elusive and youth-bound; it got sillier and more awkward as she grew older. For several years now, it's felt desperate.
The bolded part nailed it. I realize it sounds (and probably is) ageist, but there is no denying the difference in effect watching her late 70s/early 80s stage presence and now. It is completely understandable that things change after 40 years -- of course, she's 40 years older! However, SHE needs to be self-aware enough to stop milking the same stage show she's been doing for 40 years. CHANGE WITH THE TIMES. You look RIDICULOUS in that same lace shawl, black Victorian whatever dress and platforms now. You look RIDICULOUS "twirling" like a hunchback clunking around in those platforms with your ankles about to cave inwards.

She was magnetic back then.... now she looks ridiculous and embarrassing. No self awareness in the slightest despite being completely focused on nothing but herself. She is a parody of her younger self... as if I'm watching a comedian make fun of her on SNL only she really is the joke.
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  #57  
Old 04-02-2019, 03:24 PM
BombaySapphire3 BombaySapphire3 is offline
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Originally Posted by mitzo View Post
Agreed, I have always seen her as a self absorbed ditz with borderline personality, it is even in the song lyrics. The giant ego and the ultimate firing of Buckingham actually are no surprise to me. But it doesn't hit me in the feels like it does many here.
I have known that for years myself . I think my fandom even predates yours since I recall you mentioning that you came on because of her Tusk songs. She had likely wanted Lindsey out for years and waited for the right moment. This is why my disdain for the Mick and the McVies is even greater. They chose pure greed over creativity when they gave Lindsey the boot.
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  #58  
Old 04-02-2019, 03:27 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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Except for the foot gear, I think her stage attire is fine and timeless. Come on, it was odder for her to wear the shawls when she was a young woman than it is now. Just as she told us was her plan all along, she managed to choose a costume that would age with her. Unlike Cher who is flitting around in flesh-colored body suits trimmed in her old sequined Bob Mackie designs. Yuck.

With Stevie, it's the twirling, kicks and GDW dance that need to stop, imo.
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  #59  
Old 04-02-2019, 03:33 PM
luminol luminol is offline
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Except for the foot gear, I think her stage attire is fine and timeless. Come on, it was odder for her to wear the shawls when she was a young woman than it is now. Just as she told us was her plan all along, she managed to choose a costume that would age with her. Unlike Cher who is flitting around in flesh-colored body suits trimmed in her old sequined Bob Mackie designs. Yuck.

With Stevie, it's the twirling, kicks and GDW dance that need to stop, imo.
Fair points. Yes, I think if the twirling and ridiculous dances/arm motions were to stop, then her outfits wouldn't seem so silly. It's her actions that are so embarrassing. Though I really have a problem with her platforms. She can't walk in them; I remember she told a friend of mine on the 2014-2015 tour that she can barely walk in them, that they are extremely painful, that's why she has to take the breaks DURING the sets, etc. She even told her that "there was no way she can tour again" because of how worn out she gets on stage. THEN WHY WEAR THEM?? *face palm* Just dumb.
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  #60  
Old 04-02-2019, 03:43 PM
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The bolded part nailed it. I realize it sounds (and probably is) ageist, but there is no denying the difference in effect watching her late 70s/early 80s stage presence and now. It is completely understandable that things change after 40 years -- of course, she's 40 years older! However, SHE needs to be self-aware enough to stop milking the same stage show she's been doing for 40 years. CHANGE WITH THE TIMES. You look RIDICULOUS in that same lace shawl, black Victorian whatever dress and platforms now. You look RIDICULOUS "twirling" like a hunchback clunking around in those platforms with your ankles about to cave inwards.

She was magnetic back then.... now she looks ridiculous and embarrassing. No self awareness in the slightest despite being completely focused on nothing but herself. She is a parody of her younger self... as if I'm watching a comedian make fun of her on SNL only she really is the joke.
She doesn't need to change anything at this point, as her stage show still packs a huge crowd. She's almost 71. She will retire soon. Her legacy is sealed. Many people on these boards may hate her, but the general public likes her, and the critics pretty much like her these days.
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