What early Pre-Rumours era songs do you consider to be "hits"?

[MacShadowsBall]

So on the Rumours forum I'm running a contest to find out the favorite non-hit Fleetwood Mac. Ledgies over there have varying opinion of what can be defined as a "hit". Do you go by the songs that were released as singles and charted well, how well and which charts, what if the song is recently discovered and now is well-liked?

So post the songs you feel shouldn't be eligible in the favorite non-hit song contest.

Thanks!

[absinthe_boy]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

So on the Rumours forum I'm running a contest to find out the favorite non-hit Fleetwood Mac. Ledgies over there have varying opinion of what can be defined as a "hit". Do you go by the songs that were released as singles and charted well, how well and which charts, what if the song is recently discovered and now is well-liked?

So post the songs you feel shouldn't be eligible in the favorite non-hit song contest.

Thanks!

A hit single is generally defined as having cracked the top 40 of the singles chart.

In the UK that would be 'The Official Charts Company' as reported on BBC Radio - it's pretty simple for stuff prior to digital downloads. A Single is defined as a recording released to the public with no more than four tracks and the total running time being under 20 minutes (from memory...it might be very slightly different).

For example obviously Albatross was a hit. But a track that was released as a single and didn't crack the top 40 wasn't.

You might like to tighten the definition as to which country you are in...for the USA it would be the main Billboard chart, for example, but a hit is still usually defined as "top 40"

The Guinness Book of Hit Singles is a good starting point.

[elle]

Originally Posted by absinthe_boy

For example obviously Albatross was a hit. But a track that was released as a single and didn't crack the top 40 wasn't.

You might like to tighten the definition as to which country you are in...for the USA it would be the main Billboard chart, for example, but a hit is still usually defined as "top 40"

The Guinness Book of Hit Singles is a good starting point.

some great info here!

[MacShadowsBall]

So here's what I'm thinking should be considered early Pre-Rumours era hits...

Shake Your Moneymaker
Black Magic Woman
Need You Love So Bad
Albatross
Man of the World
Oh Well
The Green Manalishi

Also I'm not sure about the Christine/Welch era since it seems that none of their songs charted.

[jeremy spencer]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

So here's what I'm thinking should be considered early Pre-Rumours era hits...

Black Magic Woman
Need You Love So Bad
Albatross
Man of the World
Oh Well
The Green Manalishi

Also I'm not sure about the Christine/Welch era since it seems that none of their songs charted.

'Considered to be hits'? These all charted in England, 4 of them at #1.

[dansven]

"Shake Your Moneymaker" was a hit in Norway. It was released as a 1968 single, which I got hold of recently.

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by jeremy spencer

'Considered to be hits'? These all charted in England, 4 of them at #1.

Had no idea that there were four number 1's.

Too bad this band couldn't continue.

[elle]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

Had no idea that there were four number 1's.

Too bad this band couldn't continue.

these are unbelievable songs... all written in such short period of time!

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by elle

these are unbelievable songs... all written in such short period of time!

One day I'm going to take the time to make
a seriously good compilation from this time
period.

[slipkid]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

Had no idea that there were four number 1's.

Too bad this band couldn't continue.

I completely agree! Do you know if Mick Fleetwood, and John McVie were busted in New Orleans 1/70, along with the Grateful Dead that there's no Buckingham/Nicks verson of FM??? Fleetwood, and McVie would've been deported from the United States, forever!

Back to your "too bad" point, Peter Green's timing was off by six months. If Green had waited at least to the end of 1970 to leave FM, America would've heard the Boston Tea Party tapes as a 2 LP live album. It would've changed the band in America. Because Green left late 5/70, those tapes didn't see the light of day until Lindsay Buckingham left FM in 1985.

You have to understand, FM used to be a Cream, LZ, Who, Faces, Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix band under Peter Green. When FM went "California". That unreleased Peter Green material would if released during the mid/late 1970's completely undermine the "pop" version of Fleetwood Mac. Mick Fleetwood is a good Den mother.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by slipkid

If Green had waited at least to the end of 1970 to leave FM, America would've heard the Boston Tea Party tapes as a 2 LP live album. It would've changed the band in America. Because Green left late 5/70, those tapes didn't see the light of day until Lindsay Buckingham left FM in 1985.

This is very true. The band were on the verge of becoming a viable force on the heavy rock scene in the US. But even by the beginning of 1970, Green was pretty much not interested in anymore. This didn't stop him from continuing to make great music right up til the end of his tenure with FM--and often beyond. Once Green left, the band struggled for a new image that was neither as heavy as acts like Deep Purple nor as commercially viable as the early Doobie Brothers. They were respected musicians without a hook image.

[slipkid]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

This is very true. The band were on the verge of becoming a viable force on the heavy rock scene in the US. But even by the beginning of 1970, Green was pretty much not interested in anymore. This didn't stop him from continuing to make great music right up til the end of his tenure with FM--and often beyond. Once Green left, the band struggled for a new image that was neither as heavy as acts like Deep Purple nor as commercially viable as the early Doobie Brothers. They were respected musicians without a hook image.

"Future Games" with Welch was an attempt at "UK prog rock" at the time. I've always loved the title song. Yet Danny Kirwan was still writing beautiful songs through "Bare Trees". His post FM solo work is not to be overlooked.

Without Peter Green, Kirwan was like a rudderless ship in a large stormy ocean. Kirwan had the talent, but lost the fire. Then came the ugly conclusion.

To emphasize how important those Boston Tea Party tapes would've been for FM, they would've pre-dated the Allmans' "Live at the Fillmore East" by at least a year! Not only that, FM would've been in direct competition with The Who's "Live at Leeds", and The Rolling Stones "Get Your Ya Ya's Out" live albums. Green, and Kirwan were playing harmonizing guitar leads live just as Allman, and Betts.

Yet if America heard the BTP album first....? That's a huge game changer for Fleetwood Mac.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by slipkid

"Future Games" with Welch was an attempt at "UK prog rock" at the time. I've always loved the title song. Yet Danny Kirwan was still writing beautiful songs through "Bare Trees". His post FM solo work is not to be overlooked.

Agreed on both accounts. The title tune of Future Games sounds like songs from Pink Floyd's Meddle. I've always loved most of the entire album, too. Danny's work was gorgeous but he needed a tougher counterpoint to really spark. Oddly, the only truly weak song and vocal performance on FG is Christine's Morning Rain, which sounds way better in the earlier version they were floating to radio stations before the album's release. It's bizarre how badly her vocals are here when they are so wonderful on Show Me a Smile.

[slipkid]

I always thought "Show Me a Smile" was the first seed that started the road to the American west coast. I don't think that song would've been out of place on the 1975 self-titled album.

By what you typed, I think you agree that without Peter Green as some older brother/mentor, Kirwan's songs' were influenced by the band's direction.

Kirwan had to abandon a lot of his great material after Green left. I think this had a tremendous negative effect on his psyche.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by slipkid

I
Kirwan had to abandon a lot of his great material after Green left. I think this had a tremendous negative effect on his psyche.

That's true--including a lot of great tunes like "Like it This Way," etc. FM said they were done with blues when Welch joined (he told this to Samuel Graham in 1977). But I wonder why they didn't try to hold on just a little more to some of their past. A number of tunes from the Christine Perfect album would've sounded dynamite in a FM context, for example. The live-in-studio version of Crazy Bout You Baby is a perfect example.

It appears Kirwan was a leading force in the band's musical direction from 1970-72. But without Green's tough, heavier approach to songwriting, Kriwan's folksier songs, though excellent, seem paler than they ought alongside Welch's and McVie's. Child of Mine is a notable exception. Large portions of that tune are amazing. And Dust is concise an effective in a way Sands of Time is not. I wish he had stayed in the band.

I wish it were possible for him to have stayed.