Go Here Now, Everyone!!!!

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by face of glass
Nah, it's just that some of us LB fanatics are bothered by this supposed objectivity and "let all the flowers flourish" mentality of yours. You may seem to be one of the most tolerant, well-spoken and liberal posters here but we all know there's this little fanboy inside your heart and it always influences your posts, no matter how eloquently you might type them.

C'mon. Fess up.

(And the same can be said of me too, anyway.)

Well, I can't deny being a fanboy at heart.
But then, aren't we all? I mean, we're all here spending inordinate amounts of time on an internet message board dedicated to a pop/rock band... so I'm not alone in that charge.

But I'm not just a Stevie fanboy, or a Fleetwood Mac fanboy... I'm a Lindsey Buckingham fanboy and a Christine McVie fanboy, and so on and so on.

So if you're separating me from the LB Fanatics, Gaius, then you're wrong, because I'm an LB Fanatic too.
In my opinion, there's no greater guitarist than Lindsey Buckingham, and even though (as you know) there are LB songs that I like less than others, I can't name you a single song that I genuinely hate.
And even if it might not look that way on this board, I talk Lindsey up every chance I get. I make "best of Lindsey Buckingham" CDs for friends, and I play his new stuff for them (when we get new stuff), and I can't tell you how many people for whom I've played clips such as the 'Mirage Tour '82' video of "The Chain," and rave to them about how mind-blowing it is that Lindsey is playing two and three guitar parts all by himself at the end of that song, and how under-rated he is.

However... when I see double-standards, such as accusing one member of Fleetwood Mac for doing something that Lindsey does too, but finding reasons to forgive only Lindsey for it, or finding ways to ignore the fact that Lindsey does it too, then I'm going to point out the discrepancy.

Lindsey is wonderful, and amazing, and brilliant, and all of the other positive adjectives one can think of... but there's absolutely no reason to denigrate the other members of Fleetwood Mac in order to try and make Lindsey look better.
It's not fair or reasonable, and I'll cry foul every time I see it happening. If that causes people to mistakenly assume that I'm any less of a Lindsey fan, then so be it.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
. . . and I'll cry foul . . . .

Everyone is using "my phrase"

Seriously, I think all of the FM members say things with the best of intentions, but situations change. A good example would be La Nicks awkening from her Klonopin haze and discovering she did not like Street Angel as recorded. So, despite its release date, she had to redo a significant portion of it, which delayed it. So, I do not think they are full of bull when they sau things. I think they believe it when they are saying it, etc.

Mick, however, is a little different to me because I think he says things the way he wants them to be or at least the way he wants them to be while negotiating for them a la the double record promise to LB and then it turns out what he said was never really the case or at least it was not set in stone.

My$0.02

[Lala]

I'm extremely excited!!!!!!

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Apparently this is a classic example of not seeing the forest for the trees.

You said you won't believe Lindsey is releasing a new album until you hear it from Lindsey, not Mick... and I said that it's about as likely to happen whether it comes from Lindsey's mouth or Mick's.

Johnny, I think we started going off in slightly different directions. Your point is well taken. I have grown accustomed to "Lindsey time" when it comes to releasing albums. You say why should Mick be any less credible on album release projections. Fair enough. But if you go back to my original post, my comments about Mick's credibility weren't limited to that alone. I was addressing how a lot of what Mick says turns out to be not true.

I think Mick is a bit of a liar, and I don't necessarily think it's necessarily malicious. I wouldn't put Lindsey in that category.

It's no big deal. If you think Lindsey and Mick are at the same level in lacking credibility, then we'll just disagree.

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Apparently this is a classic example of not seeing the forest for the trees.

You said you won't believe Lindsey is releasing a new album until you hear it from Lindsey, not Mick... and I said that it's about as likely to happen whether it comes from Lindsey's mouth or Mick's.
Because... as has been demonstrated several times in the past, Lindsey's promises of future releases are no more reliable than Mick's promises of future releases.

That was the only issue I was discussing, and I don't think I could have possibly made myself any clearer.
You brought all of the other stuff into it, for who knows what reason.

I see where you're coming from, JS. You say believe neither, lol, and you make a good point! I've certainly come to believe neither.

But I think you must grant that at least in theory, Lindsey would be a tad more reliable regarding his own work. Even if just a smidgeon!

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by face of glass

You may seem to be one of the most tolerant, well-spoken and liberal posters here but we all know there's this little fanboy inside your heart and it always influences your posts, no matter how eloquently you might type them.

Fanboy? Not sure what you mean by that - do you mean someone who is a huge fan? Perhaps you don't realize how condescending that sounds. But apparently you feel being a "fanboy" makes one unable to be sincerely tolerant. Since you call yourself a fanboy and are indeed intolerant, I guess I can see where you get that idea, but not all huge fans are incapable of feeling that all the flowers should flourish.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I truly do appreciate both Lindsey and Stevie EQUALLY, although for different things. So, whose "little fangirl" am I?

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Lindsey is wonderful, and amazing, and brilliant, and all of the other positive adjectives one can think of... but there's absolutely no reason to denigrate the other members of Fleetwood Mac in order to try and make Lindsey look better.

Amen, brother!

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

We all KNOW Mick is a cross dresser! Remember the whole cheerleading skirt pic? Uh, also the Mick as bride and John as groom Rolling Stone photo.

What a scary thought!

[face of glass]

Originally posted by ChiliD
How about we keep to the topic and not start making this personal.

The FAQ speaks of personal insults, not of other discussions on the personal side if common sense is used. It may say “don’t let the discussions get personal” but in the end this is all about our personas. It’s various points made by the other side that can often forget the counterarguments and then another side brings them up. No one here is objective or speaking as the ultimate representative of the band especially when it’s generally thought that the members themselves aren’t adequate in such roles. To analyse the content of the argumentative posts and to get something out of it one must also keep in mind the person one is talking to.

‘T was a joke anyway, and I think I’ve been here long enough to have some understanding of what one can say to Johnny Stew and what one can not.

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
However... when I see double-standards, such as accusing one member of Fleetwood Mac for doing something that Lindsey does too, but finding reasons to forgive only Lindsey for it, or finding ways to ignore the fact that Lindsey does it too, then I'm going to point out the discrepancy.

Generally Mick has been insulted in other threads too and he hasn’t been compared to any other band member in those. I haven’t seen you answering to any of those but correct me if I’m wrong. Yet you chose to answer to one where he is compared to Lindsey Buckingham. Now are you really that concerned in the equality between the band members? Why is it the threads that discuss also Lindsey Buckingham that you choose to answer to? Have some Buckheads here gone beyond the obnoxious then? Is it an intentional Nicksheads’ plot to keep the radical fanaticism down so that in ten years’ time the attitudes will be changed and then they can say that Stevie Nicks doesn’t have the rapidest foam-in-the-mouth following, Lindsey Buckingham does?

It’s just that I’m not buying into your “equality to all members” thing like I’m not buying into it in my own part. No one here is any more objective than the others and the things people say tell me as much of them as the things they don’t say.

What bothered me here originally was the suggestion that Lindsey has the pedigree of letting the fans down:

It was Lindsey who later changed his mind, therefore invalidating the promise Mick had already made to the fans... and therefore leaving us disappointed once again.

It doesn’t feel too harsh in context but I felt irritated by it myself.

Originally posted by sodascouts
Fanboy? Not sure what you mean by that - do you mean someone who is a huge fan? Perhaps you don't realize how condescending that sounds. But apparently you feel being a "fanboy" makes one unable to be sincerely tolerant. Since you call yourself a fanboy and are indeed intolerant, I guess I can see where you get that idea, but not all huge fans are incapable of feeling that all the flowers should flourish.

Nancy, I was joking with that one. I realize it sounds condescending but I guess some people already understand my penchant for rude humour in the middle of these self-centred analytical rants.

And you also know that I’m a Stevie fanboy too. Hey, I’d be her groupie if I could in spite of her solo records being more mainstream than I’d like them to and in spite of all that supposedly anti-Nicks talk that I have the habit of getting into. The woman moves me like no other as a performer. She has incredible radiant charisma around her that no one else has (and definitely not Lindsey Buckingham) and that’s why she ought to still be standing on the stage, no matter how some people may be disappointed because she doesn’t go “nuts like she used to”.

Yeah, I have my preferences and I wear them upfront in my sleeve. I may not discuss at the Stevie board that much but it’s not because I have any problems with it or the people in there.

I will always defend LB in very volatile ways and that’s because I hate his general under-appreciation. Of course it’s not too sensible to do that in a fan board but I’ve seen this place as collective therapy as much as a place for information.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I truly do appreciate both Lindsey and Stevie EQUALLY, although for different things. So, whose "little fangirl" am I?

FOLAS was the term for this, if I remember correctly. I’m trying to be one too but it ain’t easy for me.

I love your new banner, Nancy! But weren't you warned of what might happen at the BN.net board if the Ledgies invaded it last autumn?

[Merf]

Nancy, your banner is wonderful. Rock on, girl!!!!!

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by face of glass

FOLAS [Fans of Lindsey and Stevie] was the term for this, if I remember correctly. I’m trying to be one too but it ain’t easy for me.

I love your new banner, Nancy! But weren't you warned of what might happen at the BN.net board if the Ledgies invaded it last autumn?

Well, it's a noble effort to be a FOLAS, but I will give you a hint - FOLASes don't put the two in competition with each other on everything! The two have different assets, as you yourself have said, and trying to put them side by side just doesn't work. Yet, some people continue to do so!

Thanks Gaius and Merf for the compliments on the banner. It hit me in a blast of inspiration. My old one looked ugly on the new format anyway, lol. And I'm not afraid of Ledgies 'cause I am one!

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Oh Lord. Am I sitting next to you?

Take his picture, take his picture!!!

gerald

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by face of glass

Generally Mick has been insulted in other threads too and he hasn’t been compared to any other band member in those. I haven’t seen you answering to any of those but correct me if I’m wrong. Yet you chose to answer to one where he is compared to Lindsey Buckingham. Now are you really that concerned in the equality between the band members? Why is it the threads that discuss also Lindsey Buckingham that you choose to answer to? Have some Buckheads here gone beyond the obnoxious then? Is it an intentional Nicksheads’ plot to keep the radical fanaticism down so that in ten years’ time the attitudes will be changed and then they can say that Stevie Nicks doesn’t have the rapidest foam-in-the-mouth following, Lindsey Buckingham does?

Gaius, as I said in my other post, my objection isn't in regards to something negative being said, per se... my objection arises when one member of Fleetwood Mac is negatively compared to another, or when one member is used in a way so as to try and make another look better.
These days it seems that threads concerning the simultaneous praising of Lindsey and bashing of another member, are the most prevalent. So when I see those double-standards, I point them out.

So, you know, I never said that Mick is "drop-dead honest" (to quote Stevie), or that he's more credible than Lindsey in any way, shape, or form... I merely said that, on the issue of promising/verifying new & upcoming releases, Mick & Lindsey's believability/credibility levels are about the same to me.
It wasn't a slap in the face to Lindsey, it was just "calling a spade, a spade" (to quote Lindsey).

[CarneVaca]

So when I see those double-standards, I point them out.

Johnny, if you would consider for two seconds the spirit in which I framed my original comment, you might conclude it had nothing to do with double standards. From the very beginning, I was saying that "I don't believe anything Mick says," to quote myself. You choose to focus on a very narrow aspect that has do do with album releases, then express self-satisfaction in your vigilance of these perceived double standards. But there is no double standard. At least, not in this case.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Johnny, if you would consider for two seconds the spirit in which I framed my original comment, you might conclude it had nothing to do with double standards. From the very beginning, I was saying that "I don't believe anything Mick says," to quote myself. You choose to focus on a very narrow aspect that has do do with album releases, then express self-satisfaction in your vigilance of these perceived double standards. But there is no double standard. At least, not in this case.

I touched on "double-standards" because Gaius asked why I hadn't weighed in on any other threads bashing Mick, only on ones where he was being (apparently) compared to Lindsey.
So I explained.

I also brought up "double-standards" in my post just prior to this last one, because Gaius seemed to feel that I was working against "LB Fanatics," and presenting some kind of false objectivity.

However, the one and only intent of my original message, was to express my personal opinion that a release is just about as likely to happen, no matter whether Mick was the one who said it, or Lindsey was.
I figured that viewpoint would be criticized, so I offered the reasons for which I hold that opinion.

I was never meaning to weigh-in on every single nuance of Mick and Lindsey's personalities, or on the tons of other possible credibility issues we could discuss... and I had thought, mistakenly it seems, that I had made that clear.