Why the disdain for Mick?

[elle]

Originally Posted by RockawayBlind

I don't hold a grudge against Mick. Frankly, I couldn't care less what he does or doesn't do. The question was asked, "Why do fans disdain Mick?" In my view, he has been disloyal to fellow band members and, to me, that shows a character flaw. It matters not to me whether those members have forgiven him. I hope they have. But their forgiveness doesn't change his character, does it?

i do agree with your points and don't have a problem with any of this, and Michele stated similar points in her posts.

i guess my annoyance (which may or may not be slightly different from the original question / poster) is seeing repeated free-for-all dumping on Mick... you see dumping on Lindsey and someone will react and provide counterpoints; you see dumping on Stevie and tons of people will jump to defend her; but it almost seems that whenever SN and LB defenders don't feel like fighting with each other they all just dump on Mick instead and nobody defends him, ya know?

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by elle

you see dumping on Stevie and tons of people will jump to defend her; but it almost seems that whenever SN and LB defenders don't feel like fighting with each other they all just dump on Mick instead and nobody defends him, ya know?

But what is Mick being attacked for? Maybe it's something he can't be defended about. If there's a reason to refute allegations against him maybe people would.

If he was attacked for ruining Tusk, then I would defend him. Mostly, he's attacked for things that can't be fully denied. Maybe people don't have counterpoints.

Michele

[elle]

Originally Posted by michelej1

But what is Mick being attacked for? Maybe it's something he can't be defended about. If there's a reason to refute allegations against him maybe people would.

If he was attacked for ruining Tusk, then I would defend him. Mostly, he's attacked for things that can't be fully denied. Maybe people don't have counterpoints.

Michele

maybe... but you know most of the points in this thread were about people having a problem with some part of his character... so if we are talking about character, are Stevie or Lindsey better people than Mick? i can't tell that, and don't think that any fans really can. we really don't know these people.

having been to m&gs with both Mick and Lindsey, the only thing i can say is that Lindsey's felt much more personal. Mick's mostly felt like any of his interviews you hear. Lindsey's didn't, they felt warmer, he didn't give you interview talking points, it was more like talking to someone you causally met.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by elle

maybe... but you know most of the points in this thread were about people having a problem with some part of his character... so if we are talking about character, are Stevie or Lindsey better people than Mick? i can't tell that, and don't think that any fans really can. we really don't know these people.

Stevie and Lindsey aren't accused of the same things that Mick is accused of and vice versa. Content matters. I don't think anyone says, "Lindsey is a man of upstanding moral character and Mick isn't." What character traits are you talking about. Mick was the manager of the band for a long period of time and I DO hold him responsible for things that went on during his management.

What are the specific attacks on him that made you start this thread. Maybe the content of the attack is why he wasn't defended and no counterpoints were given.


If the attack was about his pony tail. I can't defend that. If the attack was about the RRHOF it WAS defended by many fans and they used quotes from Bob Welch himself. If Mick is not defended, it's probably because he's perceived as guilty of whatever the attack was, but he usually is defended when there are two sides to the story.

Michele

[elle]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Stevie and Lindsey aren't accused of the same things that Mick is accused of and vice versa. Content matters. I don't think anyone says, "Lindsey is a man of upstanding moral character and Mick isn't." What character traits are you talking about. Mick was the manager of the band for a long period of time and I DO hold him responsible for things that went on during his management.

What are the specific attacks on him that made you start this thread.

i didn't start this thread.

my point was that i don't really get why are peeps so upset about Mick's character when other members might be possibly much worse people than Mick, and yet people talk about some of them like they are saints.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by elle

i didn't start this thread.

my point was that i don't really get why are peeps so upset about Mick's character when other members might be possibly much worse people than Mick, and yet people talk about some of them like they are saints.

Maybe they keep the fact that they are much worse people than Mick to themselves.

You know, all the members may like testicles equally, but Mick is the only one who chose to adorn his wardrobe with wooden ones. Mick is flamboyant and ubiquitous. He talks a lot and he appears a lot. He's scheduled to be the master of ceremonies at a whale-watching event soon.

He's not like the other members. He's not the band manager any more, but he was. In many ways he's not the band leader any more, but he was. In fact, in many other ways he still is the band leader. He's a magnet, for just the kind of responses he gets.

We were just talking about the HAHTF cover in another thread. I don't think any of the other members would have posed like that. He has a personality that invites comment and criticism. Well, he not only invites it, but probably welcomes it.

Michele

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by RockawayBlind

And without Hitler, we wouldn't have Volkswagen. Or the interstate highway system. Do I have to like Hitler too?

Typically the invocation of Hitler in a debate annoys me, but I have to say, this is a pretty good line.

[RockawayBlind]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

Typically the invocation of Hitler in a debate annoys me, but I have to say, this is a pretty good line.

LOL, well, I'm glad you took it in the spirit I intended.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Mick was the manager of the band for a long period of time and I DO hold him responsible for things that went on during his management.

Do you ever give him any of the credit for what went on during that time? I mean, the white album in 1976 was WB's best selling album ever, which was then unseated by "Rumours." Mick gets no credit for that at all? Seems a little one-sided, unbalanced.

If anything, he's the guy who can't say "no" people, and THAT more than anything has gotten him into trouble.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by RockawayBlind

I don't hold a grudge against Mick. Frankly, I couldn't care less what he does or doesn't do. The question was asked, "Why do fans disdain Mick?" In my view, he has been disloyal to fellow band members and, to me, that shows a character flaw.

How was he disloyal, or MORE disloyal than the others? His book? Everything he said in his book was either taken from previous articles in magazines or has been corroborated since the book came out (even the night Lindsey quit). What about Lindsey's loyalty? He quit the band. What about Stevie's loyalty? She quit the band. Both have left him high and dry more than once, both bad-mouthed him in the press. Both have committed to tours or shows and have backed out at nearly the last minute. Oh, but THAT'S so easy to overlook. They've been canonized, Mick's just a drummer who contributed nothing to the band's success and longevity.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Do you ever give him any of the credit for what went on during that time? I mean, the white album in 1976 was WB's best selling album ever, which was then unseated by "Rumours." Mick gets no credit for that at all? Seems a little one-sided, unbalanced.

What are you talking about. I give Mick credit for an abundance of things things. I give him credit for Tusk, for heaven's sake. Without him convincing the rest of the band, Lindsey never would have gotten the chance to do it. Lindsey went to Mick and it was Mick who smoothed things over with everyone else and made them see it was something that would help keep the band together in the end. Lindsey never would have had that diplomacy by himself.

I give Mick (not Steven Tyler) credit for getting Christine back. In fact, I keep telling you that that was all Mick.

I give Mick credit for getting them together for The Dance. By himself, Lindsey would have gotten just Mick on his solo album. I think it is Mick who asked John to join and play bass on Lindsey's stuff. Lindsey has asked Christine to be on his solo albums himself in the past, but I don't think he would have done it then. And I'm 100% sure he would not have asked John. I think Mick got them on Lindsey's GOS songs and I think he did it hoping and plotting for an FM reunion which we got.

I give Mick credit for lots of things. Nothing in here has been about me not giving Mick credit. I've just been saying why I think Mick gets a lot of cricitism from fans.

Michele

[Wendy Welch]

Let's get one thing straight. It was really Bob Welch that was managing the band at the point when they moved to LA with SOME help from Mick. Bob tracked him down in Africa when he couldn't play on the stage anymore with Bob Weston, who was seeing his wife. Bob talked him and Chris into moving to LA. Mick basically ruined their career when he left the band because of Weston, and they were being asked to perform everywhere by promoters. That's the real reason Clifford Davis/Adams put out the fake band, because they were just about to become huge when Mick bailed.

Bob also got them his lawyer to handle everything and even put all their royalties through his IRS account which caused him many problems and was never paid back for taxes from the band. That's my understanding and what I have had to help Bob straighten out.

All you have to do is look at how he allowed Christine to prevent Bob Welch from being inducted into the Hall of Fame to see how politically greedy he was. I could tell you so much more, but it will come out soon enough. Also how he deleted Bob from everything FM since then. Pay attention and look a little deeper.

They are all very talented, but they are all not very loyal people. Just look at what they have done to other members to be in the band.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I give Mick (not Steven Tyler) credit for getting Christine back. In fact, I keep telling you that that was all Mick.

I was just quoting what was said in an interview. Actually, I give Ken Caillat the a lot of credit, too. When he said that Christine told him the book brought "passion back into the music for her, I suspected we'd be seeing her return in some form. Clearly, that brought something back, something Mick could work with. She wouldn't have jammed with the blues band at rehearsals let alone considered going on stage without something triggering her enthusiasm for playing music.

I give Mick credit for getting them together for The Dance. By himself, Lindsey would have gotten just Mick on his solo album. I think it is Mick who asked John to join and play bass on Lindsey's stuff. Lindsey has asked Christine to be on his solo albums himself in the past, but I don't think he would have done it then. And I'm 100% sure he would not have asked John. I think Mick got them on Lindsey's GOS songs and I think he did it hoping and plotting for an FM reunion which we got.

Eh, I'm a little more cynical than that. I think Lindsey knew what was going to happen when he asked Mick to play on GOS, and I think he really wanted that to happen. Just look at the timeline. The "Time" band's last show was November 15, 1995 at COMDEX. Mick announced that he and Lindsey were working together in February, 1996. By April, 1996, Mick announced that he disbanded Fleetwood Mac, and the "Twister" soundtrack was released in May, 1996.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Eh, I'm a little more cynical than that. I think Lindsey knew what was going to happen when he asked Mick to play on GOS, and I think he really wanted that to happen. Just look at the timeline. The "Time" band's last show was November 15, 1995 at COMDEX. Mick announced that he and Lindsey were working together in February, 1996. By April, 1996, Mick announced that he disbanded Fleetwood Mac, and the "Twister" soundtrack was released in May, 1996.

Even if Lindsey realized that the wheels were being placed in motion, they tend to use or to rely on Mick as a conduit. Mick reaches out for them if they have pride as a barrier between them and want to save face with each other. Mick's not afraid or too embarrassed to plead.

Michele

[Wendy Welch]

Mick just happens to own the name of FM. Which gives him a lot of power. Like he told me, "I own the name. It's not a matter of IF Bob Welch will be in the RRHall of Fame, but WHEN." Isn't that odd. It's been over 1 1/2 years since he told me that and it never happened. He was just shining me on..... ?????? They don't rely on Mick as a conduit, they can't do anything with the name FM without Mick. Get real! <3