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  #31  
Old 08-31-2007, 04:11 PM
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I think a bunch of secret members of Fleetwood Mac should join & go out on the road. Given the fact that there are all these lineups with different levels of acceptance & popularity, all current members should put a paper bag over their heads so that you can't tell who is who. Next, have a CD player play the song (or have the backup army play it) & the "stars" out front will mimic it. Thus, if there is big applause for one guy with a bag over his head, the announcer can announce, "That was STEVIE NICKS! (or PETER GREEN)"

If the applause was for Billy Burnette or Christine McVie (medium applause), the announcer introduces "them," & so on & so forth.
Basically, you're promoting John & Yoko's concept of "Bagism".
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  #32  
Old 08-31-2007, 05:46 PM
Chrislit18 Chrislit18 is offline
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I think that's where the coinciding solo careers hurt the parent band. People start getting confused over what's a band song & what's a solo song. (same thing happened in the latter day version of Genesis with Phil Collins, too)

Sure, I would've liked to have heard more from Rick & Billy, too, on the two tours they were together. And, during the '94/95 tour, I would've liked them to have done their own thing instead of relying so much on the Rumours and Dave Mason material. Had they just come out & packed the set with NEW material and mixed in a couple of Rumours tunes (and "Oh Well") and maybe one or two Dave Mason solo hits, I think that lineup would've gotten more respect. That is kind of the formula in what they did in '75...played a few Fleetwood Mac "oldies", added a couple of Buckingham Nicks tunes, and the rest of the set was their latest material and there you have it.

I do completely agree with you about the solo carrers hurting the band as a whole. and Im saying this with much respect, but its mostly Stevies problem. Shes the one who kept putting out records, and touring [sure, Chris had 1 record and toured had a hit, and a minor hit, big deal, and Linds put out 2 records, has a couple of hits, but never toured.] Stevie had some BIG solo hits while with FM, and toured for EVERY album. that hurt the spectre of FM.
But I guess that was a good thing for all post rumours fans , while not being one myself [TBT, Im only on this board for this post, I wanted to see what was said.] I still respect the element the band was. More BTM than Time, but still.

I love how on the Tango/BTM tour they did Isnt It Midnight, and almost completely redid it from the Tango version, I still like the album version more, but the tour version is good too.

and to tell the truth, thats one thing I dont like about the Mac, is they rely on the Rumours stuff SO MUCH! They have SOOO many other good songs from the albums after Rumours [ie Tusk, Mirage, and Tango...and Im sure theres some good songs on BTM, and at least Chris' songs must be alright on Time], but they play between 6-9 songs off of Rumours alone! assured its thier 'best' album, and the one that theyre most known for, but look at all the hidden jems off of Tusk, and even Tango. Mick should have said on the BTM/Time tours 'while keeping the spirit of FM alive, we need to move on from those days, and start fresh, With a whole new setlist!!'

Thats JMO....

PS-I love the original version of 'Oh Well' probably more than Linds' version of it. And Rick/Billys version of it was closer to Peters than the Rumours lineups was. I am giving them credit where it is due, Im not trying to bash them. just stating that I dont like what they did with certain songs....such as GOYW.
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  #33  
Old 08-31-2007, 06:27 PM
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I do completely agree with you about the solo carrers hurting the band as a whole. and Im saying this with much respect, but its mostly Stevies problem. Shes the one who kept putting out records, and touring [sure, Chris had 1 record and toured had a hit, and a minor hit, big deal, and Linds put out 2 records, has a couple of hits, but never toured.] Stevie had some BIG solo hits while with FM, and toured for EVERY album. that hurt the spectre of FM.
From the end of the Tusk tour for the rest of the 80s, it was at least a two year break between albums...that's ridiculous. They should've taken a 6 month break after the Tusk tour, then started work on the next album. OR, Lindsey & Stevie should've just bid farewell to Fleetwood Mac and let them keep going with other people then. As I've hypothesized before, at that point, they could've asked Bob Welch back, since he had a few hits of his own (and they were still on good terms), and recruited Martha Davis, whose own band The Motels hadn't hit the charts yet. So, hypothetically, those early 80s Motels hits ("Only The Lonely", "Take The L", "Remember The Nights", "Tragic Surf", "Mission Of Mercy" etc) could've been Fleetwood Mac tunes. I think the combination of Bob Welch & Martha Davis could've kept Fleetwood Mac a monster name act through the '80s.

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and to tell the truth, thats one thing I dont like about the Mac, is they rely on the Rumours stuff SO MUCH! {snip} Mick should have said on the BTM/Time tours 'while keeping the spirit of FM alive, we need to move on from those days, and start fresh, With a whole new setlist!!'
Especially after a personnel change. And, especially with a new front line like on the '94/95 tour. As I've said before, they needed to (and should have) toured behind an album of new material, not use the same ol' set list (substituting Dave Mason's tunes where Lindsey's tunes were). If that meant having to wait until after the album was released to hit the road, then so be it. Or, play songs from the upcoming album to spark interest/anticipation for the new album. (as it was, they only played two songs that ended up on Time that preceding tour...Dave Mason's "Blow By Blow" and Bekka's "Dreaming The Dream" (but the latter song only the last half of the tour).

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PS-I love the original version of 'Oh Well' probably more than Linds' version of it. And Rick/Billys version of it was closer to Peters than the Rumours lineups was. I am giving them credit where it is due, Im not trying to bash them. just stating that I dont like what they did with certain songs....such as GOYW.
Actually, my favorite live version of "Oh Well" is the live one from the '87/88 tour that was the B-side of the "As Long As You Follow" single. The original Then Play On version is untoppable.
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  #34  
Old 08-31-2007, 06:37 PM
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From the end of the Tusk tour for the rest of the 80s, it was at least a two year break between albums...that's ridiculous. They should've taken a 6 month break after the Tusk tour, then started work on the next album. OR, Lindsey & Stevie should've just bid farewell to Fleetwood Mac and let them keep going with other people then. As I've hypothesized before, at that point, they could've asked Bob Welch back, since he had a few hits of his own (and they were still on good terms), and recruited Martha Davis, whose own band The Motels hadn't hit the charts yet. So, hypothetically, those early 80s Motels hits ("Only The Lonely", "Take The L", "Remember The Nights", "Tragic Surf", "Mission Of Mercy" etc) could've been Fleetwood Mac tunes. I think the combination of Bob Welch & Martha Davis could've kept Fleetwood Mac a monster name act through the '80s.



Especially after a personnel change. And, especially with a new front line like on the '94/95 tour. As I've said before, they needed to (and should have) toured behind an album of new material, not use the same ol' set list (substituting Dave Mason's tunes where Lindsey's tunes were). If that meant having to wait until after the album was released to hit the road, then so be it. Or, play songs from the upcoming album to spark interest/anticipation for the new album. (as it was, they only played two songs that ended up on Time that preceding tour...Dave Mason's "Blow By Blow" and Bekka's "Dreaming The Dream" (but the latter song only the last half of the tour).



Actually, my favorite live version of "Oh Well" is the live one from the '87/88 tour that was the B-side of the "As Long As You Follow" single. The original Then Play On version is untoppable.
Im glad were on the same page now

Im sorry to say this, but who is Martha Davis? I have never heard of the band, but I have heard of her 'she should have been in fleetwood mac' rants

Note-In 'Storms' CAHs book, she states how Mirage was recorded in 1981, [in case you didnt know that I thought Id put that into it.] but Stevie was doing Bella Donna and Linds was doing Law and Order. It would have came out earlier, but it apparently took a year to mix
I think that the break between Mirage and Tango is ultimately what KILLED the Rumours Mac, and how Stevie wasnt present for most of Tangos recording. But I kindof blame Lindsey for that as he wanted to 'go his own way'
If they would have put out an album in 84-85, they maybe would have kept it together a bit longer. You never know though.
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  #35  
Old 08-31-2007, 11:23 PM
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What a great idea!!! id love to see my favorite band break up and wither away!!!
I'd rather see them go out with the dignity befitting a rock band of their stature than embarass themselves/piss off longtime fans by doing the same crap they've been doing for 30 years now, and trying to put on a soap opera before our eyes.

They've already withered, and have mostly broken up. It's already happened. They just get back together every few years when they start needing money.
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  #36  
Old 09-01-2007, 12:39 AM
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I'd rather see them go out with the dignity befitting a rock band of their stature than embarass themselves/piss off longtime fans by doing the same crap they've been doing for 30 years now, and trying to put on a soap opera before our eyes.

They've already withered, and have mostly broken up. It's already happened. They just get back together every few years when they start needing money.
But, Steve, do you realize just how much money we're talking about? Not sure if you do.

I'm a longtime fan, but I don't begrudge any cashgrab tour Stevie and/or Fleetwood Mac embarks upon. The tours are what they are, and we, as longtime fans, can decide whether they are worth our time and money, on a tour by tour basis.
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  #37  
Old 09-01-2007, 01:14 AM
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I think that the break between Mirage and Tango is ultimately what KILLED the Rumours Mac, and how Stevie wasnt present for most of Tangos recording. But I kindof blame Lindsey for that as he wanted to 'go his own way'
If they would have put out an album in 84-85, they maybe would have kept it together a bit longer. You never know though.
What killed the band (regardless of incarnation) is that after the "Tusk" tour, the band became a secondary priority for all involved. It went from being a band to being a collection of solo artists who used to be in a band together. Stevie shined on "Mirage," but at that moment in her career, she couldn't afford to have anything but her best material released, regardless if it was solo or with Fleetwood Mac. But Lindsey and Christine were holding their choice material for their solo albums.

"Tango" was just the opposite. Lindsey knew he wanted out of Fleetwood Mac, and wasn't about to put anything out that would get in the way of getting a solo contract. He NEEDED to be seen as a pop genius. Christine realized the solo thing really wasn't her cup of tea, and used Fleetwood Mac as her muse. But Stevie was in pretty bad shape on that one.

Then Lindsey quits. I'm not saying Billy and Rick were bad. I'm saying their sets were usually about 23 songs long. They could EASILY skipped an opening act and added seven more songs, filled mostly with songs from Billy's solo career, as well as a couple of songs by Rick ("Surrender To Me" which he wrote for McGuinn-Clark-Hillman, would have been a great song live.) Show the world that these new guys are not just hired hands, but are actually worthy of being in the band. There is no excuse for "It Ain't Over" (a Billy/Christine duet from his "Try Me" album) not being in the set.

The "Greatest Hits" album was another nail in the coffin. After a compilation like that is released, people usually stop paying attention. Especially with bands who hash out the same songs tour after tour. Also, the lack of any Billy/Rick songs kill the album. There was a curiosity factor that the band did not bank on.

The "Tango" concert video and Stevie's "Red Rocks" video killed it. Now the public image of Stevie was a (to be blunt, which people really are in thought, but rarely are when speaking) fat woman with big hair who lost most of her voice. And, "The Other Side..." did not help that.

"Behind The Mask" didn't help. It sounds like crap and they left off the best material. How Stevie could actually write a blues song and leave it off an album with Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Christine McVie, and Rick Vito is utterly amazing in its depth of stupidity. Instead, Fleetwood Mac releases a bland/safe album.

Then the girls stop touring. Then Rick quits. Then Stevie quits. They put out a half-assed box set for their 25th anniversary (though, I love Christine's new songs). More solo albums, band basically over.

But then Billy Clinton of Arkansas makes "Don't Stop" his theme song, and suddenly there's interest in Fleetwood Mac again. So the band gets together, puts Mary Travers in chiffon, and sings a weak version of "Don't Stop" on national television. But hey, people are talking about Fleetwood Mac again.

Exit Billy. With just Mick, John, and Chris, the band needed to get some new folks. Add Bekka Bramlett, who is younger than the band itself (Bonnie Bramlett would have been more appropriate), and add Dave Mason, a decent, though uninspiring, heavily burned out guitarist who Chris hates, but who worked with Bekka's folks. Re-add Billy, who idolizes the Bramlett clan. Okay, it could have still been somewhat interesting here, but Christine was still off the road, and not only did they do all of the Fleetwood Mac songs that have been done too many times, but they added Dave Mason songs that have been done too many times. They do a lot of touring prior to the album. Meanwhile, Lindsey has taken to using psychobabble in his concerts, and Stevie is releasing greatest hits packages with songs by Jon Bon Jovi and that asshole from Poison.

Mick gets with Lindsey, realizes he'd make more money with Lindsey than with this band, which was losing Christine, and probably Bekka and Billy, and pulls the plug on the group a little early. They get John. Then Christine. Then Stevie mysteriously decides to work with Lindsey and Mick, her sworn enemies, who apparently scared her to the point of crapping her dress.

Instead of doing it Fleetwood Mac style, they openly follow the Eagles format. Oh, it's a hit. Like it wasn't gonna be. What's worse is that Lindsey now has EVERYBODY using psychobabble. They're even using it in reference to Peter Green! They get inducted, well, they only HALF get inducted (but that's another thread), and their guitar legend takes to playing with another band! Though, in the interest of fairness, Fleetwood Mac wasn't even the biggest freak show there. The Mamas & The Papas showed the world what REAL drama looks like...Screw those Anglo-Californian pussies...We STILL hate each other!

So, your band just had a #1 album that went platinum, a Grammy nomination, and were inducted into the Hall of Fame. So what's the most obvious thing to do? SOLO ALBUMS!!!

When they eventually get around to making the band a priority again (read: solo albums bomb, record company doesn't want to release any new solo albums, career heading towards the crapper again) they realize they could do an album...Sure, the songwriter that had the lion's share of the band's hits quit...Didn't stop them on "Kiln House" now, did it?!? In fact, they even rented a house to record the album (subliminal, eh). They tour for a year and a half, do the exact same show at least 172 times, and wonder why their fans are pissed. How to correct that? RELEASE A DVD OF THAT SET, and include a CD that has most of the same songs as the last live thing that was released a few years back!!! That'll win 'em over. Give them the same bull**** that we've been feeding them for (then) nearly 25 years!!! And for ****s and giggles, let's release a DVD of the making of the album. We'll make it look like The Real World...People aren't tired of the REAL wOrLD yet, are they? It'll make us look hip. It worked for Wilco. Oh, and we have to do a song about 9/11. Sure, it was two years ago, and people have started rebuilding/moving on with their lives. But Stevie was there, man. Well, at least in NYC. Okay, so she was a few miles away and slept through the whole thing, but SHE WAS THERE, man!

These days, they don't even pretend like they're interested. Mick and Rick are hanging out in Hawaii, getting blitzed on Mick's wine and playing blues and songs from "Rumours" with some of the locals, and sometimes get visits from ex-Maccers and associates. Stevie is mourning the loss of Christine, nearly a decade after the fact. Lindsey is doing a lot of touring. He has his percussionist and keyboardist mimic Mick's "World Turning" thing...Isn't it odd people groan about Billy singing GYOW, and groan about Mick's drum vest, but give Lindsey a pass on blatantly using something uniquely Mick's...Double standard, or irony mocking SteveMacD yet again? Oh, and Lindsey is going to be singing with a winner of American Idol in a few days. John was recently voted the Realtor Association's Man of the Year. Christine was seen at a grocery store in England rolling her eyes at her ex-bandmates. Peter Green...Whereabouts unknown, but we suspect it's in Switzerland. Bob Brunning still hasn't fixed his fact-checker, will likely write yet another book with a lot of misinformation. Dave Walker...Who effing cares? Bob Weston...Whereabouts unknown, but not with Layla's sister. Bob Welch is trying to find yet another way to rerecord "Sentimental Lady" and has taken to playing like Eddie Van Halen (could be worse guitarists to play like) and uses a vocoder and drum machine/loops. Danny Kirwan is still crazy. Billy's touring with Fogerty (cool gig), Bekka is touring with either Billy Joel or Faith Hill (not nearly as cool, though more profitable). Dave Mason is still singing the entire "Alone Together" album and "We Just Disagree" and rambles about how he's played with Steve Winwood and Jimi Hendrix. Richard Dashut and Ken Caillat have been known to do bong hits in L.A. while playing Atari 2600 (yes, the woody), talking about the good-old-days of watching those sad freaks. John Courage has become an evil scientist. Jeremy Spencer released a blues/protest/religious album, doing music he likes and saying something he feels needs to be said, even though it might not necessarily be a popular point of view, which makes the guy the most relevant of the lot (and, I have to admit, I did NOT see that one coming).

Fleetwood Mac jumped the shark sometime in 1981. The fact that the main ink they get involves rehashing the whole "Rumours" thing, and they apparently have stopped doing anything unless they'll get the ink, should really tell you all you need to know.

Fleetwood Mac sucks when they play it safe. Fleetwood Mac is brilliant when they have a vision, take risks, and/or are brutally honest about something going on in their lives at that particular moment in time (as opposed to 30 years later). My top four are "Mystery To Me," "Then Play On," "Tusk," and "Future Games." As for number five, it really doesn't matter.
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Old 09-01-2007, 03:45 AM
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Im sorry to say this, but who is Martha Davis? I have never heard of the band, but I have heard of her 'she should have been in fleetwood mac' rants
Lead singer of The Motels. Did "Only The Lonely" and "Suddenly Last Summer," two of the worst 80s songs ever
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Old 09-01-2007, 04:16 AM
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What killed the band (regardless of incarnation) is that after the "Tusk" tour, the band became a secondary priority for all involved. It went from being a band to being a collection of solo artists who used to be in a band together. Stevie shined on "Mirage," but at that moment in her career, she couldn't afford to have anything but her best material released, regardless if it was solo or with Fleetwood Mac. But Lindsey and Christine were holding their choice material for their solo albums.

"Tango" was just the opposite. Lindsey knew he wanted out of Fleetwood Mac, and wasn't about to put anything out that would get in the way of getting a solo contract. He NEEDED to be seen as a pop genius. Christine realized the solo thing really wasn't her cup of tea, and used Fleetwood Mac as her muse. But Stevie was in pretty bad shape on that one.

Then Lindsey quits. I'm not saying Billy and Rick were bad. I'm saying their sets were usually about 23 songs long. They could EASILY skipped an opening act and added seven more songs, filled mostly with songs from Billy's solo career, as well as a couple of songs by Rick ("Surrender To Me" which he wrote for McGuinn-Clark-Hillman, would have been a great song live.) Show the world that these new guys are not just hired hands, but are actually worthy of being in the band. There is no excuse for "It Ain't Over" (a Billy/Christine duet from his "Try Me" album) not being in the set.

The "Greatest Hits" album was another nail in the coffin. After a compilation like that is released, people usually stop paying attention. Especially with bands who hash out the same songs tour after tour. Also, the lack of any Billy/Rick songs kill the album. There was a curiosity factor that the band did not bank on.

The "Tango" concert video and Stevie's "Red Rocks" video killed it. Now the public image of Stevie was a (to be blunt, which people really are in thought, but rarely are when speaking) fat woman with big hair who lost most of her voice. And, "The Other Side..." did not help that.

"Behind The Mask" didn't help. It sounds like crap and they left off the best material. How Stevie could actually write a blues song and leave it off an album with Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Christine McVie, and Rick Vito is utterly amazing in its depth of stupidity. Instead, Fleetwood Mac releases a bland/safe album.

Then the girls stop touring. Then Rick quits. Then Stevie quits. They put out a half-assed box set for their 25th anniversary (though, I love Christine's new songs). More solo albums, band basically over.

But then Billy Clinton of Arkansas makes "Don't Stop" his theme song, and suddenly there's interest in Fleetwood Mac again. So the band gets together, puts Mary Travers in chiffon, and sings a weak version of "Don't Stop" on national television. But hey, people are talking about Fleetwood Mac again.

Exit Billy. With just Mick, John, and Chris, the band needed to get some new folks. Add Bekka Bramlett, who is younger than the band itself (Bonnie Bramlett would have been more appropriate), and add Dave Mason, a decent, though uninspiring, heavily burned out guitarist who Chris hates, but who worked with Bekka's folks. Re-add Billy, who idolizes the Bramlett clan. Okay, it could have still been somewhat interesting here, but Christine was still off the road, and not only did they do all of the Fleetwood Mac songs that have been done too many times, but they added Dave Mason songs that have been done too many times. They do a lot of touring prior to the album. Meanwhile, Lindsey has taken to using psychobabble in his concerts, and Stevie is releasing greatest hits packages with songs by Jon Bon Jovi and that asshole from Poison.

Mick gets with Lindsey, realizes he'd make more money with Lindsey than with this band, which was losing Christine, and probably Bekka and Billy, and pulls the plug on the group a little early. They get John. Then Christine. Then Stevie mysteriously decides to work with Lindsey and Mick, her sworn enemies, who apparently scared her to the point of crapping her dress.

Instead of doing it Fleetwood Mac style, they openly follow the Eagles format. Oh, it's a hit. Like it wasn't gonna be. What's worse is that Lindsey now has EVERYBODY using psychobabble. They're even using it in reference to Peter Green! They get inducted, well, they only HALF get inducted (but that's another thread), and their guitar legend takes to playing with another band! Though, in the interest of fairness, Fleetwood Mac wasn't even the biggest freak show there. The Mamas & The Papas showed the world what REAL drama looks like...Screw those Anglo-Californian pussies...We STILL hate each other!

So, your band just had a #1 album that went platinum, a Grammy nomination, and were inducted into the Hall of Fame. So what's the most obvious thing to do? SOLO ALBUMS!!!

When they eventually get around to making the band a priority again (read: solo albums bomb, record company doesn't want to release any new solo albums, career heading towards the crapper again) they realize they could do an album...Sure, the songwriter that had the lion's share of the band's hits quit...Didn't stop them on "Kiln House" now, did it?!? In fact, they even rented a house to record the album (subliminal, eh). They tour for a year and a half, do the exact same show at least 172 times, and wonder why their fans are pissed. How to correct that? RELEASE A DVD OF THAT SET, and include a CD that has most of the same songs as the last live thing that was released a few years back!!! That'll win 'em over. Give them the same bull**** that we've been feeding them for (then) nearly 25 years!!! And for ****s and giggles, let's release a DVD of the making of the album. We'll make it look like The Real World...People aren't tired of the REAL wOrLD yet, are they? It'll make us look hip. It worked for Wilco. Oh, and we have to do a song about 9/11. Sure, it was two years ago, and people have started rebuilding/moving on with their lives. But Stevie was there, man. Well, at least in NYC. Okay, so she was a few miles away and slept through the whole thing, but SHE WAS THERE, man!

These days, they don't even pretend like they're interested. Mick and Rick are hanging out in Hawaii, getting blitzed on Mick's wine and playing blues and songs from "Rumours" with some of the locals, and sometimes get visits from ex-Maccers and associates. Stevie is mourning the loss of Christine, nearly a decade after the fact. Lindsey is doing a lot of touring. He has his percussionist and keyboardist mimic Mick's "World Turning" thing...Isn't it odd people groan about Billy singing GYOW, and groan about Mick's drum vest, but give Lindsey a pass on blatantly using something uniquely Mick's...Double standard, or irony mocking SteveMacD yet again? Oh, and Lindsey is going to be singing with a winner of American Idol in a few days. John was recently voted the Realtor Association's Man of the Year. Christine was seen at a grocery store in England rolling her eyes at her ex-bandmates. Peter Green...Whereabouts unknown, but we suspect it's in Switzerland. Bob Brunning still hasn't fixed his fact-checker, will likely write yet another book with a lot of misinformation. Dave Walker...Who effing cares? Bob Weston...Whereabouts unknown, but not with Layla's sister. Bob Welch is trying to find yet another way to rerecord "Sentimental Lady" and has taken to playing like Eddie Van Halen (could be worse guitarists to play like) and uses a vocoder and drum machine/loops. Danny Kirwan is still crazy. Billy's touring with Fogerty (cool gig), Bekka is touring with either Billy Joel or Faith Hill (not nearly as cool, though more profitable). Dave Mason is still singing the entire "Alone Together" album and "We Just Disagree" and rambles about how he's played with Steve Winwood and Jimi Hendrix. Richard Dashut and Ken Caillat have been known to do bong hits in L.A. while playing Atari 2600 (yes, the woody), talking about the good-old-days of watching those sad freaks. John Courage has become an evil scientist. Jeremy Spencer released a blues/protest/religious album, doing music he likes and saying something he feels needs to be said, even though it might not necessarily be a popular point of view, which makes the guy the most relevant of the lot (and, I have to admit, I did NOT see that one coming).

Fleetwood Mac jumped the shark sometime in 1981. The fact that the main ink they get involves rehashing the whole "Rumours" thing, and they apparently have stopped doing anything unless they'll get the ink, should really tell you all you need to know.

Fleetwood Mac sucks when they play it safe. Fleetwood Mac is brilliant when they have a vision, take risks, and/or are brutally honest about something going on in their lives at that particular moment in time (as opposed to 30 years later). My top four are "Mystery To Me," "Then Play On," "Tusk," and "Future Games." As for number five, it really doesn't matter.
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Old 09-01-2007, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
I'd rather see them go out with the dignity befitting a rock band of their stature than embarass themselves/piss off longtime fans by doing the same crap they've been doing for 30 years now, and trying to put on a soap opera before our eyes.

They've already withered, and have mostly broken up. It's already happened. They just get back together every few years when they start needing money.
Well I hope they piss off the longtime fans for another 10 years because Ill still be going to their concerts no matter what.
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  #41  
Old 09-02-2007, 09:03 PM
Chrislit18 Chrislit18 is offline
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What killed the band (regardless of incarnation) is that after the "Tusk" tour, the band became a secondary priority for all involved. It went from being a band to being a collection of solo artists who used to be in a band together. Stevie shined on "Mirage," but at that moment in her career, she couldn't afford to have anything but her best material released, regardless if it was solo or with Fleetwood Mac. But Lindsey and Christine were holding their choice material for their solo albums.

"Tango" was just the opposite. Lindsey knew he wanted out of Fleetwood Mac, and wasn't about to put anything out that would get in the way of getting a solo contract. He NEEDED to be seen as a pop genius. Christine realized the solo thing really wasn't her cup of tea, and used Fleetwood Mac as her muse. But Stevie was in pretty bad shape on that one.

Then Lindsey quits. I'm not saying Billy and Rick were bad. I'm saying their sets were usually about 23 songs long. They could EASILY skipped an opening act and added seven more songs, filled mostly with songs from Billy's solo career, as well as a couple of songs by Rick ("Surrender To Me" which he wrote for McGuinn-Clark-Hillman, would have been a great song live.) Show the world that these new guys are not just hired hands, but are actually worthy of being in the band. There is no excuse for "It Ain't Over" (a Billy/Christine duet from his "Try Me" album) not being in the set.

The "Greatest Hits" album was another nail in the coffin. After a compilation like that is released, people usually stop paying attention. Especially with bands who hash out the same songs tour after tour. Also, the lack of any Billy/Rick songs kill the album. There was a curiosity factor that the band did not bank on.

The "Tango" concert video and Stevie's "Red Rocks" video killed it. Now the public image of Stevie was a (to be blunt, which people really are in thought, but rarely are when speaking) fat woman with big hair who lost most of her voice. And, "The Other Side..." did not help that.

"Behind The Mask" didn't help. It sounds like crap and they left off the best material. How Stevie could actually write a blues song and leave it off an album with Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Christine McVie, and Rick Vito is utterly amazing in its depth of stupidity. Instead, Fleetwood Mac releases a bland/safe album.

Then the girls stop touring. Then Rick quits. Then Stevie quits. They put out a half-assed box set for their 25th anniversary (though, I love Christine's new songs). More solo albums, band basically over.

But then Billy Clinton of Arkansas makes "Don't Stop" his theme song, and suddenly there's interest in Fleetwood Mac again. So the band gets together, puts Mary Travers in chiffon, and sings a weak version of "Don't Stop" on national television. But hey, people are talking about Fleetwood Mac again.

Exit Billy. With just Mick, John, and Chris, the band needed to get some new folks. Add Bekka Bramlett, who is younger than the band itself (Bonnie Bramlett would have been more appropriate), and add Dave Mason, a decent, though uninspiring, heavily burned out guitarist who Chris hates, but who worked with Bekka's folks. Re-add Billy, who idolizes the Bramlett clan. Okay, it could have still been somewhat interesting here, but Christine was still off the road, and not only did they do all of the Fleetwood Mac songs that have been done too many times, but they added Dave Mason songs that have been done too many times. They do a lot of touring prior to the album. Meanwhile, Lindsey has taken to using psychobabble in his concerts, and Stevie is releasing greatest hits packages with songs by Jon Bon Jovi and that asshole from Poison.

Mick gets with Lindsey, realizes he'd make more money with Lindsey than with this band, which was losing Christine, and probably Bekka and Billy, and pulls the plug on the group a little early. They get John. Then Christine. Then Stevie mysteriously decides to work with Lindsey and Mick, her sworn enemies, who apparently scared her to the point of crapping her dress.

Instead of doing it Fleetwood Mac style, they openly follow the Eagles format. Oh, it's a hit. Like it wasn't gonna be. What's worse is that Lindsey now has EVERYBODY using psychobabble. They're even using it in reference to Peter Green! They get inducted, well, they only HALF get inducted (but that's another thread), and their guitar legend takes to playing with another band! Though, in the interest of fairness, Fleetwood Mac wasn't even the biggest freak show there. The Mamas & The Papas showed the world what REAL drama looks like...Screw those Anglo-Californian pussies...We STILL hate each other!

So, your band just had a #1 album that went platinum, a Grammy nomination, and were inducted into the Hall of Fame. So what's the most obvious thing to do? SOLO ALBUMS!!!

When they eventually get around to making the band a priority again (read: solo albums bomb, record company doesn't want to release any new solo albums, career heading towards the crapper again) they realize they could do an album...Sure, the songwriter that had the lion's share of the band's hits quit...Didn't stop them on "Kiln House" now, did it?!? In fact, they even rented a house to record the album (subliminal, eh). They tour for a year and a half, do the exact same show at least 172 times, and wonder why their fans are pissed. How to correct that? RELEASE A DVD OF THAT SET, and include a CD that has most of the same songs as the last live thing that was released a few years back!!! That'll win 'em over. Give them the same bull**** that we've been feeding them for (then) nearly 25 years!!! And for ****s and giggles, let's release a DVD of the making of the album. We'll make it look like The Real World...People aren't tired of the REAL wOrLD yet, are they? It'll make us look hip. It worked for Wilco. Oh, and we have to do a song about 9/11. Sure, it was two years ago, and people have started rebuilding/moving on with their lives. But Stevie was there, man. Well, at least in NYC. Okay, so she was a few miles away and slept through the whole thing, but SHE WAS THERE, man!

These days, they don't even pretend like they're interested. Mick and Rick are hanging out in Hawaii, getting blitzed on Mick's wine and playing blues and songs from "Rumours" with some of the locals, and sometimes get visits from ex-Maccers and associates. Stevie is mourning the loss of Christine, nearly a decade after the fact. Lindsey is doing a lot of touring. He has his percussionist and keyboardist mimic Mick's "World Turning" thing...Isn't it odd people groan about Billy singing GYOW, and groan about Mick's drum vest, but give Lindsey a pass on blatantly using something uniquely Mick's...Double standard, or irony mocking SteveMacD yet again? Oh, and Lindsey is going to be singing with a winner of American Idol in a few days. John was recently voted the Realtor Association's Man of the Year. Christine was seen at a grocery store in England rolling her eyes at her ex-bandmates. Peter Green...Whereabouts unknown, but we suspect it's in Switzerland. Bob Brunning still hasn't fixed his fact-checker, will likely write yet another book with a lot of misinformation. Dave Walker...Who effing cares? Bob Weston...Whereabouts unknown, but not with Layla's sister. Bob Welch is trying to find yet another way to rerecord "Sentimental Lady" and has taken to playing like Eddie Van Halen (could be worse guitarists to play like) and uses a vocoder and drum machine/loops. Danny Kirwan is still crazy. Billy's touring with Fogerty (cool gig), Bekka is touring with either Billy Joel or Faith Hill (not nearly as cool, though more profitable). Dave Mason is still singing the entire "Alone Together" album and "We Just Disagree" and rambles about how he's played with Steve Winwood and Jimi Hendrix. Richard Dashut and Ken Caillat have been known to do bong hits in L.A. while playing Atari 2600 (yes, the woody), talking about the good-old-days of watching those sad freaks. John Courage has become an evil scientist. Jeremy Spencer released a blues/protest/religious album, doing music he likes and saying something he feels needs to be said, even though it might not necessarily be a popular point of view, which makes the guy the most relevant of the lot (and, I have to admit, I did NOT see that one coming).

Fleetwood Mac jumped the shark sometime in 1981. The fact that the main ink they get involves rehashing the whole "Rumours" thing, and they apparently have stopped doing anything unless they'll get the ink, should really tell you all you need to know.

Fleetwood Mac sucks when they play it safe. Fleetwood Mac is brilliant when they have a vision, take risks, and/or are brutally honest about something going on in their lives at that particular moment in time (as opposed to 30 years later). My top four are "Mystery To Me," "Then Play On," "Tusk," and "Future Games." As for number five, it really doesn't matter.
.....





!!!!!!!!!!!

100% true
LMAO!!!!
as much as I love FM...that is the funniest thing Ive ever heard.

Oh and 'that asshole from poision' was on Vh1 while I was reading this, and I shared with my mom. She almost died of laughter


SteveMacD. that was the FUNNIEST thing Ive read all day
and its funny because its so true, and nobody wants to admit it
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  #42  
Old 09-04-2007, 10:07 AM
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chiliD chiliD is offline
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Originally Posted by xdreamsunwindx View Post
Lead singer of The Motels. Did "Only The Lonely" and "Suddenly Last Summer," two of the worst 80s songs ever
One person's opinion. To me, The Motels (along with Concrete Blonde) were the best bands to come along in the '80s.
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  #43  
Old 09-06-2007, 03:28 PM
Rapunzel Rapunzel is offline
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That may be the most entertaining post I've ever read! Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
What killed the band (regardless of incarnation) is that after the "Tusk" tour, the band became a secondary priority for all involved. It went from being a band to being a collection of solo artists who used to be in a band together. Stevie shined on "Mirage," but at that moment in her career, she couldn't afford to have anything but her best material released, regardless if it was solo or with Fleetwood Mac. But Lindsey and Christine were holding their choice material for their solo albums.

"Tango" was just the opposite. Lindsey knew he wanted out of Fleetwood Mac, and wasn't about to put anything out that would get in the way of getting a solo contract. He NEEDED to be seen as a pop genius. Christine realized the solo thing really wasn't her cup of tea, and used Fleetwood Mac as her muse. But Stevie was in pretty bad shape on that one.

Then Lindsey quits. I'm not saying Billy and Rick were bad. I'm saying their sets were usually about 23 songs long. They could EASILY skipped an opening act and added seven more songs, filled mostly with songs from Billy's solo career, as well as a couple of songs by Rick ("Surrender To Me" which he wrote for McGuinn-Clark-Hillman, would have been a great song live.) Show the world that these new guys are not just hired hands, but are actually worthy of being in the band. There is no excuse for "It Ain't Over" (a Billy/Christine duet from his "Try Me" album) not being in the set.

The "Greatest Hits" album was another nail in the coffin. After a compilation like that is released, people usually stop paying attention. Especially with bands who hash out the same songs tour after tour. Also, the lack of any Billy/Rick songs kill the album. There was a curiosity factor that the band did not bank on.

The "Tango" concert video and Stevie's "Red Rocks" video killed it. Now the public image of Stevie was a (to be blunt, which people really are in thought, but rarely are when speaking) fat woman with big hair who lost most of her voice. And, "The Other Side..." did not help that.

"Behind The Mask" didn't help. It sounds like crap and they left off the best material. How Stevie could actually write a blues song and leave it off an album with Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Christine McVie, and Rick Vito is utterly amazing in its depth of stupidity. Instead, Fleetwood Mac releases a bland/safe album.

Then the girls stop touring. Then Rick quits. Then Stevie quits. They put out a half-assed box set for their 25th anniversary (though, I love Christine's new songs). More solo albums, band basically over.

But then Billy Clinton of Arkansas makes "Don't Stop" his theme song, and suddenly there's interest in Fleetwood Mac again. So the band gets together, puts Mary Travers in chiffon, and sings a weak version of "Don't Stop" on national television. But hey, people are talking about Fleetwood Mac again.

Exit Billy. With just Mick, John, and Chris, the band needed to get some new folks. Add Bekka Bramlett, who is younger than the band itself (Bonnie Bramlett would have been more appropriate), and add Dave Mason, a decent, though uninspiring, heavily burned out guitarist who Chris hates, but who worked with Bekka's folks. Re-add Billy, who idolizes the Bramlett clan. Okay, it could have still been somewhat interesting here, but Christine was still off the road, and not only did they do all of the Fleetwood Mac songs that have been done too many times, but they added Dave Mason songs that have been done too many times. They do a lot of touring prior to the album. Meanwhile, Lindsey has taken to using psychobabble in his concerts, and Stevie is releasing greatest hits packages with songs by Jon Bon Jovi and that asshole from Poison.

Mick gets with Lindsey, realizes he'd make more money with Lindsey than with this band, which was losing Christine, and probably Bekka and Billy, and pulls the plug on the group a little early. They get John. Then Christine. Then Stevie mysteriously decides to work with Lindsey and Mick, her sworn enemies, who apparently scared her to the point of crapping her dress.

Instead of doing it Fleetwood Mac style, they openly follow the Eagles format. Oh, it's a hit. Like it wasn't gonna be. What's worse is that Lindsey now has EVERYBODY using psychobabble. They're even using it in reference to Peter Green! They get inducted, well, they only HALF get inducted (but that's another thread), and their guitar legend takes to playing with another band! Though, in the interest of fairness, Fleetwood Mac wasn't even the biggest freak show there. The Mamas & The Papas showed the world what REAL drama looks like...Screw those Anglo-Californian pussies...We STILL hate each other!

So, your band just had a #1 album that went platinum, a Grammy nomination, and were inducted into the Hall of Fame. So what's the most obvious thing to do? SOLO ALBUMS!!!

When they eventually get around to making the band a priority again (read: solo albums bomb, record company doesn't want to release any new solo albums, career heading towards the crapper again) they realize they could do an album...Sure, the songwriter that had the lion's share of the band's hits quit...Didn't stop them on "Kiln House" now, did it?!? In fact, they even rented a house to record the album (subliminal, eh). They tour for a year and a half, do the exact same show at least 172 times, and wonder why their fans are pissed. How to correct that? RELEASE A DVD OF THAT SET, and include a CD that has most of the same songs as the last live thing that was released a few years back!!! That'll win 'em over. Give them the same bull**** that we've been feeding them for (then) nearly 25 years!!! And for ****s and giggles, let's release a DVD of the making of the album. We'll make it look like The Real World...People aren't tired of the REAL wOrLD yet, are they? It'll make us look hip. It worked for Wilco. Oh, and we have to do a song about 9/11. Sure, it was two years ago, and people have started rebuilding/moving on with their lives. But Stevie was there, man. Well, at least in NYC. Okay, so she was a few miles away and slept through the whole thing, but SHE WAS THERE, man!

These days, they don't even pretend like they're interested. Mick and Rick are hanging out in Hawaii, getting blitzed on Mick's wine and playing blues and songs from "Rumours" with some of the locals, and sometimes get visits from ex-Maccers and associates. Stevie is mourning the loss of Christine, nearly a decade after the fact. Lindsey is doing a lot of touring. He has his percussionist and keyboardist mimic Mick's "World Turning" thing...Isn't it odd people groan about Billy singing GYOW, and groan about Mick's drum vest, but give Lindsey a pass on blatantly using something uniquely Mick's...Double standard, or irony mocking SteveMacD yet again? Oh, and Lindsey is going to be singing with a winner of American Idol in a few days. John was recently voted the Realtor Association's Man of the Year. Christine was seen at a grocery store in England rolling her eyes at her ex-bandmates. Peter Green...Whereabouts unknown, but we suspect it's in Switzerland. Bob Brunning still hasn't fixed his fact-checker, will likely write yet another book with a lot of misinformation. Dave Walker...Who effing cares? Bob Weston...Whereabouts unknown, but not with Layla's sister. Bob Welch is trying to find yet another way to rerecord "Sentimental Lady" and has taken to playing like Eddie Van Halen (could be worse guitarists to play like) and uses a vocoder and drum machine/loops. Danny Kirwan is still crazy. Billy's touring with Fogerty (cool gig), Bekka is touring with either Billy Joel or Faith Hill (not nearly as cool, though more profitable). Dave Mason is still singing the entire "Alone Together" album and "We Just Disagree" and rambles about how he's played with Steve Winwood and Jimi Hendrix. Richard Dashut and Ken Caillat have been known to do bong hits in L.A. while playing Atari 2600 (yes, the woody), talking about the good-old-days of watching those sad freaks. John Courage has become an evil scientist. Jeremy Spencer released a blues/protest/religious album, doing music he likes and saying something he feels needs to be said, even though it might not necessarily be a popular point of view, which makes the guy the most relevant of the lot (and, I have to admit, I did NOT see that one coming).

Fleetwood Mac jumped the shark sometime in 1981. The fact that the main ink they get involves rehashing the whole "Rumours" thing, and they apparently have stopped doing anything unless they'll get the ink, should really tell you all you need to know.

Fleetwood Mac sucks when they play it safe. Fleetwood Mac is brilliant when they have a vision, take risks, and/or are brutally honest about something going on in their lives at that particular moment in time (as opposed to 30 years later). My top four are "Mystery To Me," "Then Play On," "Tusk," and "Future Games." As for number five, it really doesn't matter.
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  #44  
Old 09-16-2007, 07:22 PM
madformac madformac is offline
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Originally Posted by Madness Fades View Post
I think you just said that to piss of LB fans. His guitar abilities outweigh both Vito and Burnett put together. And even with his modesty he even admitted that.
I also dont see Big Love, Never Going Back Again, Go Insane, Im So Afraid, Eyes Of the World, I know Im Not Wrong, Second Hand News. And absolutely nothing from the Recent Say You Will Album.


Hello, knock knock !! is anybody in there.

I seriously doubt LB is better guitar wise than the two of them. Vito especially is a very acomplished player in his own right. LB is very good but he is not incredible enough to warrant that.

But there would have to be a nod to his influence over the years. As much in terms of production values and writing as guitar playing. Any reasonably acomplished finger style player can play his guitar parts with a little practice but the "feel" and sound is something else..
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  #45  
Old 09-17-2007, 04:58 PM
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I seriously doubt LB is better guitar wise than the two of them. Vito especially is a very acomplished player in his own right. LB is very good but he is not incredible enough to warrant that.

But there would have to be a nod to his influence over the years. As much in terms of production values and writing as guitar playing. Any reasonably acomplished finger style player can play his guitar parts with a little practice but the "feel" and sound is something else..
yeah! let's start a Skill-versus-feeldiscussion. We never had one before! I don't think I say something shocking if I state that I agree with Madness Fades here. Vito is a fantastic guitarplayer. But there the comparison ends.
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